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Howdie Folks - Would like to pose an idea I have for a XV8 suit team + marker drones.

2x Suits + 2x Single Weapons (Plasma/Fusion etc.) + target lock
1x Suit + Drone Controller, Single Weapon, Target Lock OR Shas'vre + C&C Node.
+6 x Marker Drones.

My idea is, mobile tougher markerlight support. Suit based firepower.

The army (1500pt) is roughly; Fireblast + 12 FW. 3x 10 Kroot Snipers. IonTide + EWO, Stealth Team (Pos Rly. Fusion, TL), 3x 4 Pathfinders (all EMP, may include 2 ion rifles as str8 blast is golden), 2 XV88 missilesides (Drones, EWO, FB), 2x Skyrays.

Thoughts? Experience? Alternatives?

Cheers

Your paying about 250 for 6 bs 3 twinlinked markerlights + what should be 2 suits with double single missile pods.

its a heafty investment that could work. but i would rather just take another riptide =P

Look at it this way.... 102pts worth of ML drones (Suit, controller, 6 drones), option extra of 20pts to allow that same suit to fire.

Thats ~9 pathfinders. (less then 6 drones-worth of hits) but, importantly, very mobile and much more resilient. (Non-twin linked drones, as I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to include a further 25pts onto this squad).

Assuming one doesn't -need- another Riptide, of course

Add a commander suit in there with a drone controller and you massively increase the effectiveness of the drones instantly. You could even bring another 2 ML drones along with the commander.

This idea is solid just do it with a support commander (maybe take a combat and support commander) so you can have some TL BS5 JSJ markerlight goodness.

 Messy0 wrote:
This idea is solid just do it with a support commander (maybe take a combat and support commander) so you can have some TL BS5 JSJ markerlight goodness.

Yeah this. And keep the suit weapons long range, dont put FB on a support unit. The ML are range 36" right? Stick to MP's and maybe PR.

Well could do the calculation on Markerlights:

For 6 Markerlights with suits: 72pts not counted the suits ( so minimum 66pts tax )

6 Markerlights without suits free BS2 but T4 JSJ and 4+ save: 84pts

6 Pathfinders BS3 but with 5+ save T3 and no JSJ: 66pts

Or otherwise a commander with Drone controller and 6 markerlights: 93 for the commander without weapons and 84pts for the drones.

If you want markerlights that survive i guess you can go for drones, otherwise pathfinders are just cheaper by 8 points at minimum squads ( 4 pathfinders to 4 drones )

Dracoknight wrote:
Well could do the calculation on Markerlights:

For 6 Markerlights with suits: 72pts not counted the suits ( so minimum 66pts tax )

6 Markerlights without suits free BS2 but T4 JSJ and 4+ save: 84pts

6 Pathfinders BS3 but with 5+ save T3 and no JSJ: 66pts

Or otherwise a commander with Drone controller and 6 markerlights: 93 for the commander without weapons and 84pts for the drones.

If you want markerlights that survive i guess you can go for drones, otherwise pathfinders are just cheaper by 8 points at minimum squads ( 4 pathfinders to 4 drones )

But the Drones with the Commander are BS5, with JSJ, have a 4+ save instead of the pathfinders 5+ (out of cover they dont even get a save to bolters) and can be made twinlinked if you give the commander C+C node. Thats pretty much a guaranteed 5-6 markerlight hits. This compared to a static pathfinder squad is just so much more superior.

 HerbaciousT wrote:

 Messy0 wrote:
This idea is solid just do it with a support commander (maybe take a combat and support commander) so you can have some TL BS5 JSJ markerlight goodness.

Yeah this. And keep the suit weapons long range, dont put FB on a support unit. The ML are range 36" right? Stick to MP's and maybe PR.

Commander with re-rolls, Tank Hunter, Ignores cover, and drone controller. Give him iridium to tank up front. That's 8 markerlights hitting on 2+ rerolled, and then the 3 suits have two MPs and target locks. 12 shots rerolling hits, tank hunting, ignores cover. Those three transports over there? Yeah, they're dead. And that unit over there has 8 marker counters on it.

I see these people joining a commander to a marker drone squad and just shake my head at the lost potential.

I guess we can do a group of:

Commander
2x Fusion
Drone controller
Target Lock
Puretide ( tank hunter )

2x Crisis suits + 2x Fusion and Target lock + Markerdrones + Shas`vre with Iridium suit + Reroll and Ignore cover ( yes the Shas`vre can use signature systems but only 3 of them ) Then you have a units that destroys armor and mark whatever is left.

Hold Up guys... its all fair and well including a commander for additional BS but its a huge points premium.

I am going under the assumption a player would already have included 3 pathfinder squads of varying size (4-8, roughly).

It is additional markerlight support without going insane about it. A couple of drones on a fireblade, stealth suit squad etc. seems like a poor way to field additional ML.

So is the investment of 6 drones + a cheap controller suit worthwhile?

Why bother with pathfinders when you can get bs5 drones? Its also not much of a premium as you can give the commander a target lock and have him shooting up other targets.

 Flinty wrote:
Why bother with pathfinders when you can get bs5 drones? Its also not much of a premium as you can give the commander a target lock and have him shooting up other targets.

Your limited to one target & you do have to pay a 1-3pt + 63pt premium (diff between a suit & a commander).

I think il toss in some math because im bored.

Pathfinders have a stock 22pt per marker hit.
Marker drone squads have stock 42pt per maker hit.
Sniper drone squads min at 58pts / 69.6 ppmh (1 mrk)
Sniper drone squad max at 84pts / 33.6 ppmh (3 mrk)
Elite Crisis suit min w/ DC at 146pts / 48.7 ppmh (6 mrk)
add CCN at 171 is 38 ppmh

Commander(dc) + body guards at 229pts / 45.8 ppmh (6)
add cnn at 244pts / 41.82857 ppmh

Commander(dc) + min drone squad at 149pts / 44.7 ppmh (4)
add ccn + max drone squad at 276pts / 23.65714 ppmh (12)

Little bit of perspective. for full out marker hits the most efficient remains the pathfinders. (not factoring in survivability and addition shooting)

 Desubot wrote:
Little bit of perspective. for full out marker hits the most efficient remains the pathfinders. (not factoring in survivability and addition shooting)

The commander though is built to give the Crisis squad (or any other squad he joins) crazy good buffs. There is just the added perk of having 8 BS5 Markerlights in the squad as well. You can't really attribute their cost to the marker hits.

12 points per drone (2 less than an actual drone squad) + drone controller at a rerolled BS 5 puts them at less than 14pt per marker hit.

I agree with culsandar.

I am not at all a fan of Support Commanders tbh. I think it's a waste of innate BS5 and the off chance of innate precision shots to leave such a good shooting platform with no weapons. I understand though that in some cases it's the only way to accomplish certain things, such as adding tank hunter to broadsides for example. The proposed squad in this thread, however, is not one of those times.

The concept itself is effective. It's actually my favourite starting point to build a list around. I start with the following:

Commander - MP/MP, Puretide Chip, Target Lock, Drone Controller, 2 Marker drones. (can add other toys like Iridium, Neuroweb, whatever to your taste.)

3x Crisis - Shas'Vre with C&C, Multispec, third system of your choice. (I use Vectored Retrothrusters, they don't usually see combat due to their range and speed, except against units like Zagstruk or Vanguard Vets which I personally play against often enough to take). 2 remaining crisis get MP/MP and Target Locks. 2 Marker drones each (6 total)

This gives imho an excellent firebase unit. The whole thing can stay 36" away from enemies (further including thrust move). You keep the C&C and Multispec on a BS3 unit so giving up his shooting doesn't suck. You should consistently get 7 markerlight hits from the drones (actually close to all 8 statistically) and can fire all the missiles at a different target. 12 missile pod shots that reroll misses, reroll armour pen and don't allow cover is no joke against AV10-12, and isn't terrible against infantry in general either. The massive range and speed of the unit means it's easy to put in good position, and using the drones to screen makes it hard to down the suits. The downside is it's kind of a large footprint.

The main drawback I guess to taking the commander like this instead of full support-mode is that he can't split off to confer C&C/Multispec to other units. I haven't been bothered by it to be honest, I find if he splits off it's really the tank hunter/monster hunter I want which he still carries. Markerlights can more or less cover the function of C&C/Multispec.

It's a fair chunk of points in one unit, but I've been playing marines for a very long time, a single unit & HQ coming up to 400-500pts isn't that scary an investment . Plus this Tau unit actually functions more like 2 seperate units roped together, lol, so the cost is easier to bear imho.

Now is it worthwhile to Razerous list? Taking just the crisis team without the commander is still a reasonable unit (probably need a drone controller on the shas'vre as the third support system). I think it's worth trying, he doesn't really need bs5 markerdrones since he has a good amount of pathfinders already. I think it adds to the list.

Ah nuts. With the advice given, I'm swayed between a 2nd riptide, more stealthsuits, a small crisis team or a commander buffed team.

In any case, its all be good advice - cheers

Well to throw a spanner in the works, tbh I think your list would most benefit from a 2-man crisis squad with FB/FB/Flamer as a deepstrike suicide unit for dealing with either heavy AV or backfield weak objective camping units. Any spare points could add gun drones to the unit, which actually aren't too shabby at putting hullpoints down on frequent rear AV10. Plus many weak deckchair units used to camp backfield are pretty susceptible to pinning. I think this would add more to your list than the marker/deathrain squad, but of course it depends on your local meta, which you would know best

I've been running 3 suits with 6 ML drones, 2x suits have 2x plasma and TL, other suit has Shas'vre, DC, MSS, C&C node. They have been doing wonders for me with BS3 and rerolls on MLs, and BS3 with reroll and ignore covers saves on 4 plasma rifles. And the whole unit acts independantly over the need for marker lights while providing marker lgihts themselves. means one less unit I have to use marker lgihts on, and one more unit that kills MEQ/TEG. I think this unit plus two riptides is the perfect elite setup for TAC list. I usually have a Puretide commander joining Broadsides with 2x shields on the commander and 4 missile drones and velocity trackers for HYMs. I usually sneak in a DC on the commander JIC I want to move him to the suit unit.

FYI, you can trade those plasma rifles for Mpods if you want, but with broadsides i don't think my suits need pods, and become less priority for helldrakes since they aren't actually afraid of them.

If you're looking to Deathstar your markerlights, just go with the ShadowSight bomb.

 chrisrawr wrote:
If you're looking to Deathstar your markerlights, just go with the ShadowSight bomb.

Nope, somewhere between 100 & 250pts.

My last post, that unit comes out to about 245pts from what I remember.