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So I have had a lot of problems with the new 6th edition rules. I recently played a list like this in a 2k tourney and did fairly well other then against plague marines but that was a bit of bad luck. A plasma shot missed horribly and destroyed just about everything that dropped out of my stormraven and said stormraven rolled all 1's and 2's against the rear armor of 2 hell drakes then proceeded to be 1 shotted by snapshots and crash onto my main force...I called it the murphy's law game. I destroyed vanilla marines and necron though. So here it is critique away.

HQ

Librarian - Epistolary upgrade, Terminator Armor, Shield of Sanguinius and most likely roll for 2nd power - 175 pt


Elites

Sanguinary Priest - Base model - 50 pt

Brother Corbulo - 105 pt


Troops

Tactical Squad - 10 man, Heavy Bolter, Flamer, Razorback w/ Twin-linked Lascannon - 260 pt

Tactical Squad - 10 man, Heavy Bolter, Flamer - 170 pt

Assault Squad - 10 man, 2 Plasma Pistols, Vet Srg has Plasma Pistol and Power Sword - 250 pt

Death Company - 5 man w/ Lemartes, Jump Packs, Plasma Pistol, 5 Power Swords - 415 pt

Death Company Dread - Bloodfists, Meltagun, Stormbolter - 125 pt


Heavy

Devastator Squad - 5 man, 4 Plasma Cannon - 150 pt

Stormraven - Twin-linked Multimelta, Twin-linked Assault Cannon - 200 pt

Fortification

Aegis Defence Line - Quad Gun - 100 pt


I I put the 2 Tac Squads up front side by side in 5 x 2 formation with the Razorback in between them. Libby joins Squad 1 back right corner and Corbulo joins Squad 2 back left corner. Assault marines in straight line behind them so they can't be templated and everything in all 3 squads gets Shield from Libby(5+ cover) and Corbulo's dirty dirty 4+ FNP. Dev Squad is behind the Def Line with the other Sang Priest who mansthe quad gun. The Stormraven has the DC and DC Dread in it to drop instant death on the front line with 25 AP3 attacks rerolling all missed hits and wounds b/c of Lemartes.

Don't ever transport units in the Stormraven. As you found out.

I like the look of the list, you may be better off dropping all the death co. for a couple of assault squads or something, but i guess you probably like they way they play.

Martel732 wrote:
Don't ever transport units in the Stormraven. As you found out.

yes... it usualy works though... unless your that unlucky, because usualy they take the autocannon version, and it hurts when they roll a 6 but thats it, as for me, when i field stormraven it gets shot down 1 turn by an ork holding firing the quad gun manage to hit only 1 shot, but rolled a 6 to glance, then rolled another 6 so it exploded, and all 5 terminators term libby and fur dread died turn 2, and thus why i lost in a 1500 point game...

or when it gets shot down by 8 space wolf missiles hitting and penning and 4 lascannons penning by everyone rolling 6 to hit and 6t to pen -_-

but your list

why does libby have terminator armor, but no terminators to join him?

priest goes with who? and why only 1

BROTHER I AM PINED HERE!

random razorback???? why have it?

why plasma... why not melta... just... whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy so expensive -_- just 2 metla melta bomb and power weapon

unless your just doing a fun game, scrap the deth co ._. make them just a 10 man squad with a chaplin in there, much cheaper by 100 points and that wont be focused to death

death co dread is good, but fist or talons is all down to you

dev squad.. with plasma cannons? why not missiles its cheaper

stormraven is fine, but i prefer it with hurricane bolters

agis is fine

Against good opponents, transporting in a Stormraven hardly ever works. Do the math. Even if a loaded Stormraven is all they kill that turn, they did very well.

DC dreads are bad because of AV 12 and you must take DC to get them.

@Martel I've never once been shot down before dropping my troops off...It's 200 points to get behind the enemy with my best close combat units and I always drop them on the first turn it comes out. My stormraven crashed with no unit in it but it landed on my main force. This had no effect on the units that were inside. They were killed by a plasma volley gone horribly wrong...a bad decision to aim that close to them on my part.

@jbsnv my list

Libby has term armor for 1 reason. I found everybody challenges Libby's in close combat and having no invuln means a dead Libby. 30 points for an invuln may be expensive but I found he lasts the entire game most of the time when in Term Armor.

1 priest goes with the dev squad to man the quad gun and keep the dev's alive

Brother Corbulo is a named priest so that is priest number 2. I have found him to be the best value of anything in the blood angels army period. He is basically a 5 4 6 4 2 wound with rending and a 2+ FNP that gives everyone around him furious charge and a 4+ FNP for 100 points. In my army that means he gives 31models +1 strength and a 50% chance to survive just about everything which winds up costing about 3.5pts per model. Well worth it imo.

I have no answer for the razorback...had the extra points and thought it would be a nice turn 1 or 2 anti tank for cheap. I had 90 pts left over which isn't enough to do really anything with a BA army...could scratch it and 25 pts elsewhere to run a Baal Pred

Because I don't currently have any infernus pistols and I hate the 6" firing distance on them...I don't have them for anti tank...I have them to lessen the amount of overwatch shots coming from the unit I'm about to pummel. On average its 2 kills prior to charging.

I love the DC. They are the reason I chose BA in the first place and I will make a competitive list that involves them...I've made it my life long goal!!! This squad is very underrated though for real...the only reason they get focused is because where I play everyone has seen what they do...when I play new players they are ignored until its too late. On average it's about 18 AP3 wounds b/c of reroll...anything I hit with them is going down.

It's funny the one thing you like is the one I'm not sold on...My DC dread underperforms in probably 4 out of 5 games...maybe it's just poor rolling...I usually drop him near the heaviest armored thing on the field and let him go to town...he pops it then gets focused to death.

Plasma gives blast template at s7 ap3...Missile is s8 single shot and the blast template sucks

I like the hurricane bolters a lot but I never fire them so I save the 30 pts.

I don't care about you anecdotal evidence. Good players will fry your 200 pt coffin.

Martel, care to share your phonebook of good players that serve as better anecdotal evidence than yours?

They can try for it but if I drop my troops the first turn it comes in unless they have interceptor then how is it a coffin? I always drop turn 1 and always get off a volley of shots. I don't see your logic here.

So... you're going to deep strike them instead of using it as an assault transport? So why not drop pod instead of having to roll for reserves?

I've shot down plenty of Stormravens with ground based fire. AV 12 HP 3 is really not that tough to crack. What good player is going to let the thing fly into assault position full of assault troops without downing it? This is an averaged claim. Some lists might actually not be able to down it, but in a TAC situation, you can't rely on that. Ever.

Don't forget that with loaded Stormravens, the reserve roll can make you lose the game right there. The BA don't have these kinds of margins of error. The IG, yes, but not BA.

Maybe we aren't playing the rules correctly? Turn 2 I roll for reserves. Stormraven comes on, moves about 18"-36" up the board and drops troops, they move normally then shoot then assault...can you not drop troops the first turn it comes in?

No wonder you think its good.

Okay; here's how it works.

If the flyer is in "zoom" mode, troops may not disembark, and therefore, can not utilize the "assault transport" rule.

If you use skies of blood, or whatever its called now, you enter via deep strike and are ineligible for assault.

You must enter "hover" mode to assault out of the Stormraven. See the problem now? If you enter zooming, they have a whole turn to kill you. Or , you can drop the passengers off via skies of blood, but that subjects them to mishaps and they can't assault.

ahhh...I did read that but blood angels with jetpacks have descent of angels special rule which makes them immune to skies of blood...at least thats how I interpretted it

AngelusMortis wrote:
ahhh...I did read that but blood angels with jetpacks have descent of angels special rule which makes them immune to skies of blood...at least thats how I interpretted it

Doesn't matter anyways they just came from reserves and are inneligible for assault unless are deep striking vanguard vets

No, descent of angels does not make them immune to deep strike rules.

The codex specifically says that models that use Skies of Blood cannot assault the turn they disembark using it. Even the rule entry for Skies of Blood notes that you cannot assault after utilizing Skies of Blood.

Now that we're all on the same page, back to reality: do NOT use the Stormraven as a transport. I know it sucks, but this is the way GW has made it.

Martel732 wrote:
Now that we're all on the same page, back to reality: do NOT use the Stormraven as a transport. I know it sucks, but this is the way GW has made it.

* shrug * you play how you use it, i play how i use it

I'm assuming you want to be able to defeat competent opponents, or otherwise there's no point in coming on these boards.
If you use the Stormraven to transport BA units, you are begging to lose they game by getting it shot down, or it not arriving in the first place.

Another reason that the SR is no good as a transport: per the BRB pg 125 you can't charge the turn you arrive from reserve.

Anywho, back to the list. I would recommend dropping the Plamsa pistol on the Sgt in the ASM and replacing it with a Combat Shield. He is going to get challenged and without an invul. he is going to die.

Other than that, I personally dont like TAC squads in my BA list, ASM are better and get transports for cheaper. If you want the heavy weapons, pick up another Dev Squad.

Why are you taking Corbulo for? His points costs are equal to two Priests, which Corbulo does the same job as. I would ditch Corbulo and get another Priest.

I don't really get what's going on with the rest of the army if I am honest. You've got a single Razorback, which is going to get owned as it is the only ground based armour. You then have a jump unit who wants to go forward, but no Priests to move with them to help them survive. Lastly you've got the Death Co in a Stormraven which will be dropping them up close into the enemy lines; if that's the case then they do not need jump packs for mobility.

Also, Stormraven is best used as a gunship. Sure it is expensive, but all serious flyers are, plus it is pretty damn good. You have to drop it down to skimmer mode to get the best out of it, which is taking away its survivibility. It doesn't matter if you use it to transport units or not as it has the same chances as getting shot down with or without units inside and same chances of showing up too.

Yeah, it matters a lot. Units inside the Stormraven waiting for a reserve roll are not contributing to the battle when they are not on the field. It's not like the BA have IG model count here folks. We can't afford lots of reserves.

Your points about the Stormraven having a unit inside and begging to be shot down or not even coming on doesn't matter because those chances are the same as an empty Stormraven. Also not sure how a Stormraven cannot arrive when it auto comes on turn 4.

Except a loaded Stormraven is usually above 400 points and an empty one is ~200 points. So you are doubling your casualties by losing the same 3 HP.

Given that many games are decided by turn 4, it's a pretty good assumption that a BA list with a loaded Stormraven that doesn't arrive till turn 4 has already lost. Again, we don't have the play that the IG does.

 mercer wrote:
Your points about the Stormraven having a unit inside and begging to be shot down or not even coming on doesn't matter because those chances are the same as an empty Stormraven. Also not sure how a Stormraven cannot arrive when it auto comes on turn 4.

That is 3 turns of a large chunk of your army not doing anything if it is loaded up with something valuable, if are looking for a way to drop assault units use pods they are more reliable so you don't have to be dependant on one reserve roll

BA have trouble winning vs good lists played by good players when everything goes *exactly right*. Why add all these additional points of failure to your list?

Martel732 wrote:Except a loaded Stormraven is usually above 400 points and an empty one is ~200 points. So you are doubling your casualties by losing the same 3 HP.

Given that many games are decided by turn 4, it's a pretty good assumption that a BA list with a loaded Stormraven that doesn't arrive till turn 4 has already lost. Again, we don't have the play that the IG does.

I have already said that the Stormraven is best used purely as a gunship and forget the transport ability.

What I am saying is it doesn't matter whether there's a unit inside it or not the Stormraven still has the same chances of coming in from reserve (you said it might not turn up) and also it doesn't matter if something is inside, the Stormraven is going to get shot down regardless. So your points about having a unit inside are rubbish, same chances of reserve and same chances of getting shot down whether a unit inside,

A GumyBear wrote:

 mercer wrote:
Your points about the Stormraven having a unit inside and begging to be shot down or not even coming on doesn't matter because those chances are the same as an empty Stormraven. Also not sure how a Stormraven cannot arrive when it auto comes on turn 4.

That is 3 turns of a large chunk of your army not doing anything if it is loaded up with something valuable, if are looking for a way to drop assault units use pods they are more reliable so you don't have to be dependant on one reserve roll

If you're going to quote me then you best look at my previous comments where I said the Stormraven is best for a gunship only and not a transport. I am not disputing about units inside, I am disputing about haivng a unit inside makes any difference to survivbility and reserve rolls of the Stormraven, which it does not.

And if you're looking to drop in assault units then jump packs are the far best option. Drop Pods only need to be taken for Dreadnoughts.

It doesn't change the mechanics, but it changes what fraction of your army is affected by a bad reserve roll or heaven forbid a Stormraven going down. A Stormraven crashing with a bunch of tooled up DC is pretty much the game right there. Mechanically, it's not more vulnerable, but its the difference between losing 200 or 440 points.

Also, empty Stormravens are far less juicy targets than loaded ones. One reason is that the troops, instead of being loaded uselessly in the Stormraven, are trying to punch your gun line troopers in the face.

Drop pods are legit options for assault marines. Particularly 5 man teams with melta-inferno combo.

Nice to see people bickering for no reason aside from proving who has the biggest e-peen...If y'all actually looked at the thread you'd see the topic creator hasn't posted in quite awhile and probably isn't going to at this point even if he does have further questions.

You're all arguing for the sake of argument, stop or take it to PM, and thanks for derailing and your attempts at stroking your egos.

I'm still reading...so far I haven't really gotten any good advice other then "why the hell are you doing this?"....that helps me a lot...Look I've tried the traditional jump lists and they are aweful. You lose way too much to shooty lists which everyone is going towards. I tried to make a pretty balanced shooty list with some very strong assault units in my DC and DC dread. You can not play BA the way they are supposed to be played so I am trying to think outside the box. As I said when I combine Libby shield with Corbulos 4+ FNP everyone lasts a long time. Corbulo is far from worthless try him out...that free reroll has saved me many times. I move everyone up the board 6 inches at a time then after the tac squads get enemy units at about half strength I assault from behind them. The random razorback is exactly that...I think I had about 80 or 90 points left and you can not field a squad with that so I threw an extra tank buster in.