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Another question I can't find a solid answer on... so, I'm polling it! I've heard that 'It says you can decide the order' arguments, 'Start of turn' arguments, 'Psykers movement phase' arguments and a bunch of others, but there's no conclusion... so, I leave my decision to the ballot of public opinion.

Start of turn psychic powers and reserve/outflank rolls are done at the same time so you can choose the order to resolve. However, there is nothing to override the restriction on not being able to use start of the turn abilities on the turn a unit arrives from reserves.

I thought the argument was over whether you could use blessings or maledictions on units that arrived from reserve that turn? Not by units arriving that turn. The latter is quite clearly illegal.

My understanding was:
BRB says cant use Psychic powers the turn you come in. (Pretty clear)
BUT an FAQ then comes out saying you determine order for two "beginning of movement" things.

So, does that FAQ over rule the previous rule? It doesn't mention it, so I would say RAW no, not sure though. I'd love another FAQ on it. I think it may have been intended to allow the psychic powers to be used after coming from Reserves, but it doesn't specifically say it over rides the stated rule.

I agree with Pyrian and HappyJew. The FAQ was clarifying whether a Psyker who is already on the table could cast a blessing on a unit that arrives from Reserve. The Psyker may.

A Psyker arriving from reserve cannot cast any blessings, maledictions, or other powers that must be cast at the start of the turn.

That FAQ allows you to use Scrier's gaze.

It doesn't allow you to cast blessing/malediction powers the turn you come into reserve, and it doesn't allow you to cast blessing/malediction powers on units that arrived from reserve that turn.

Either of those interpretations require more than the FAQ provides, and the former rather directly contradicts a rule not superseded at all.

The rules are extremely clear and explicit that if the psyker is arriving from Reserve, that he can't cast Blessings or Maledictions that turn.

What the FAQ opened up is the ability for a psyker who's STARTING THE TURN ON THE TABLE to cast a Blessing or Malediction before Reserve rolls, which allows Scrier's Gaze's benefit to Reserve rolls to actually function.

 Mannahnin wrote:
The rules are extremely clear and explicit that if the psyker is arriving from Reserve, that he can't cast Blessings or Maledictions that turn.

What the FAQ opened up is the ability for a psyker who's STARTING THE TURN ON THE TABLE to cast a Blessing or Malediction before Reserve rolls, which allows Scrier's Gaze's benefit to Reserve rolls to actually function.

What Man said.

Its a tricksy worded FAQ tricksying people into believing otherwise.

It says reserves rolls out flank rolls, it does not say reserves outflanks or reserve rolls and movement outflank rolls and movement. IMO it is quite clear that it affects powers like scriers gaze (which was useless pre FAQ). So no you cannot cast blessings on units that have just come from reserve

You make the roll, units arrive. There's no delay between you rolling and them moving on - its essentially the same action.

rigeld2 wrote:
You make the roll, units arrive. There's no delay between you rolling and them moving on - its essentially the same action.

Then why did the FAQ call out reserves rolls and outflank rolls, why not just say reserves and outflank.

Are you claiming that moving on from reserves is NOT performed at the start of the phase? Because nothing states anything like that in the rules.

You can cast blessings on units that have just arrived from reserves

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Are you claiming that moving on from reserves is NOT performed at the start of the phase? Because nothing states anything like that in the rules.

You can cast blessings on units that have just arrived from reserves

Are you saying reserves coming on is not movement? I say it is based on the brb saying "it must move fully on the table" and "each models move". Now you have moved units is the beginning of the movement phase or part way in?. I know how I read it.

Yet there are multiple things which happen "at the start" of the movement phase. Is that start a single instant or does it have duration?

Yet another Poll that doesn't actually explain what it is asking...

If you're asking can a psyker... then its a no
If you're asking can a psyker use abilities on a DS unit... then yes.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yet there are multiple things which happen "at the start" of the movement phase. Is that start a single instant or does it have duration?

It is not defined, nor is rolling for reserves then instantly moving them on. By all means I would be fine with you rolling for reserves moving them onto the board at the start of your turn but by then you have now started the movement phase and cant cast any blessing maledications

Or would you say bringing units on from reserves is not movement?.

I wasnt saying that

The start of the turn IS the start of the movement phase. The two are exactly the same thing

MarkyMark wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
You make the roll, units arrive. There's no delay between you rolling and them moving on - its essentially the same action.

Then why did the FAQ call out reserves rolls and outflank rolls, why not just say reserves and outflank.

I don't know?

I do know that when you successfully roll for reserves, the unit arrives. When the unit arrives it moves on.
Page 124 BRB.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
I wasnt saying that

The start of the turn IS the start of the movement phase. The two are exactly the same thing

You wasnt saying that movement from reserves is now after the start of the movement phase?, so how can you then cast blessings maledications on units they have arrived from reserve?.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
You make the roll, units arrive. There's no delay between you rolling and them moving on - its essentially the same action.

Then why did the FAQ call out reserves rolls and outflank rolls, why not just say reserves and outflank.

I don't know?

I do know that when you successfully roll for reserves, the unit arrives. When the unit arrives it moves on.
Page 124 BRB.

But it is not such a unbroken chain like that is it, you roll for all your reserves then you do your movement, it doest say immediately after rolling for reserves you bring them on. The FAQ calls out reserve rolls as you can do them before you do your reserve movement, perhaps that is why it is reserve rolls and not reserves mentioned in the FAQ?.

As this is a poll I have logged my vote and explained why I think blessings maledication cannt be cast on units coming from reserve, I will leave this thread at that.

When X happens, Y happens.
When Y happens, Z happens.

This means that when X happens, Z happens. There's no break.

rigeld2 wrote:
When X happens, Y happens.
When Y happens, Z happens.

This means that when X happens, Z happens. There's no break.

But the FAQ says when Y happens, you can chose to do B first then Y or Y then B, Then you would have to do Z

So Y then B then Z

I am saying that moving on from reserves is AT the start of the movement phase, still.

Negative on casting upon arrival from Reserves via Deepstrike.

Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

you cna choose so you can deepstrike a terminator sorcerer and bless with him

Incorrect. Page 125 states you cannot use any power that must be used at the start of the turn (==start of movement phase) on the turn you turn up from reserves.

Blessings must be used at the start of the turn.

rigeld2 wrote:You make the roll, units arrive. There's no delay between you rolling and them moving on - its essentially the same action.

That's not true at all. You make all reserves rolls - one at a time - before any units arrive, which also happens one at a time. It's impossible to have the rolls and arrivals occur simultaneously, when each roll and each arrival are subsequent.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Are you claiming that moving on from reserves is NOT performed at the start of the phase?

I'm claiming that absolutely nothing in the rules or FAQ's specifies whether units arriving from reserve is still the start of the turn or not. Also, that you cannot assume that actions which occur after actions occurring at the start, are still the start.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Because nothing states anything like that in the rules.

You seem to love saying that in discussions where nothing in the rules supports YOUR position, either.

Except youre told that you may still cast blessings - which occurs at the start of the turn - AFTER reserves arrive.

Meaning you are still at the start of the turn.

Do you have any support for your position? Anything?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except youre told that you may still cast blessings - which occurs at the start of the turn - AFTER reserves arrive.

Meaning you are still at the start of the turn.

Do you have any support for your position? Anything?

Reserves is stated as movement, therefore you are not at the start of the turn. Reserve rolls are acutally at the start of the turn not start of the movement phase (RAW this is why the FAQ come out as some powers like scriers gaze were useless). Blessings are start of movement phase, if you have moved (including reserve movement) it is no long start of movement phase.

Start of turn IS start of movement phase. RAW. Total and utter RAW. The turn is split into three phases, and the start of the first phase IS the start of the turn.

You are told you can cast blessing on units that have moved on from reserves, as you are told these are simultaneous actions. If they are simultaneous you ARE still at the start of the turn (movement phase) and so can do so.

Please answer this point, and realise your error in assuming start of turn != start of movement phase

This is, for some, well written in the brb, and the faq.

At the start of your turn:
1: Roll for reserves. All of them. On a roll of 3+, that unit arrives this turn. Not right away. That turn..
2: Roll for outflankings, and if, choose side.
3: Roll for blessings, and other stuff that happens at the start of the turn.

These three things happens at the same time, and therefor you choose what to do.
Note that the faq says reserve ROLLS, and outflanking ROLLS, when answering this question of blessings and reserve rolls.

Then:
When reserves arrive, which is after all the rolls and the start of the turn is over, you choose the unit of your choice and proceede to move him onto the table as described in the brb.
After that, you continue to move the rest of your units as normal in the movement phase.

This means that you cannot cast a blessing when you arrive from deep strike. This also means that even if you have a psyker on the table, he will not be able to cast any blessings on units arriving from reserves.