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With the new Tau book (and the Eldar one to a lesser extent) my Crons are in the unenviable position of being outshot, and they don't have the combat potential or speed to deal with it mostly. So how do us Crons beat them?
This also applies to armies like Orks who get destroyed in combat by Nids usually (and outnumbered as well) in terms of an army speciality being beaten at its own game.

The Necrons out-tough everyone. That's what they're way better at than anyone else ever - very hard to kill for their points.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The Necrons out-tough everyone. That's what they're way better at than anyone else ever - very hard to kill for their points.

Very true, but it won't beat a shooty Tau force cos 1 in 3 gets up again cos they'll outshoot the Crons and whittle them down

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The Necrons out-tough everyone. That's what they're way better at than anyone else ever - very hard to kill for their points.

Very true, but it won't beat a shooty Tau force cos 1 in 3 gets up again cos they'll outshoot the Crons and whittle them down

Should be 1 in 2 gets up again - bring those res-orbs! And 20-man warrior phalanxes are hard to whittle down, while you use wraiths / scarabs / destroyers /other fast things to tie up the tau in Close Combat while the Necron phalanxes get close enough to assault - at which point THEY will be the ones doing the whittling.

I don't? Oh, wait BA don't have a specialty anymore. BA need not apply

People lose against tau because they think the best way to counter them is to hide on objectives as far away from them as possible. This is dead wrong. You need to put your objectives as close to them as possible and bring the fight to THEM, especially with a mid-range army like necrons.

1126PLL your tips are sound I just hope it works. Anyone got any ideas on combatoriented armies being out-combatted? Oh and Martel, BA have a speedy speciality with Assault Marines in Troops, Stromravens, Sang. Guard and Death Company

Martel732 wrote:
I don't? Oh, wait BA don't have a specialty anymore. BA need not apply

This is so true NEW BA CODEX PLEASE?!?!

herpguy wrote:
People lose against tau because they think the best way to counter them is to hide on objectives as far away from them as possible. This is dead wrong. You need to put your objectives as close to them as possible and bring the fight to THEM, especially with a mid-range army like necrons.

I like the sound of that as intimidating as a Tau gunline is any recommended units?

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I don't? Oh, wait BA don't have a specialty anymore. BA need not apply

This is so true NEW BA CODEX PLEASE?!?!

The only rumor I have heard is Q1 2015.

Duck and cover.


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Duck and cover.


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For reals;

Necrons are one of the fastest armies out there.

A force composed of annihilation barges and mass infantry on night sycthes would bring the pain to them quickly.

Dont forget that tau struggles a lot vs av 13+ nowadays. So being in their face in turn 2 with massive amounts of fliers and barges should leave you at an advantage.

Necron against tau is a case of playing the mission better then they can. While Tau may be able to outshoot you, you have a substantial advantage in being able to drop troops anywhere on the board, which lets you claim or contest every objective on the enemy side of the board. And if your sythes do get shot down (some will), you just walk back onto the board from reserves to claim the objectives in your half, which negates the need to hold back troops to claim friendly objectives without haveing to risk the enemy taking them. If you don't get tabled as necrons, you should generaly be able to win.

Well, I don't know how to beat nidz with my orks yet.
Last game I played, I had 120 boyz with each a nob supported by dakka jets (1250pts game)

My Nidz opponent completelly tabled my by the end of turn 3 with Hormagants, Raveners and venom tropes.
The thing that makes the nids close combats gods is their initiative 5 and up. By the time my orks can hit, more than half pf the unit is gone. So, I cannot imagin using a speed freaks list as well so I can only imagine using a gun line army with shootaboyz, lootas, dakka jets, killa kans with grotzookas, looted wagons and the likes. But I usually make AC lists and my usuall lists are green tides or speed freaks!

Martel732 wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I don't? Oh, wait BA don't have a specialty anymore. BA need not apply

This is so true NEW BA CODEX PLEASE?!?!

The only rumor I have heard is Q1 2015.

20...15..??????? THAT'S 2 WHOLE YEARS!! NOOOOOOO


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I'm kinda hoping for a BA supplement, like the Iyanden one for the Eldar Codex :(


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 paqman wrote:
Well, I don't know how to beat nidz with my orks yet.
Last game I played, I had 120 boyz with each a nob supported by dakka jets (1250pts game)

My Nidz opponent completelly tabled my by the end of turn 3 with Hormagants, Raveners and venom tropes.
The thing that makes the nids close combats gods is their initiative 5 and up. By the time my orks can hit, more than half pf the unit is gone. So, I cannot imagin using a speed freaks list as well so I can only imagine using a gun line army with shootaboyz, lootas, dakka jets, killa kans with grotzookas, looted wagons and the likes. But I usually make AC lists and my usuall lists are green tides or speed freaks!

Burnaz... MORE BURNAZ!! BURN EM ALL!!! ;D

And Burna Bommaz, they'll do some damage

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

Burnaz... MORE BURNAZ!! BURN EM ALL!!! ;D

And Burna Bommaz, they'll do some damage

Yeah, I could throw a Burnawagon at them. It would be a two turn trick though. One turn I dish out a lot of pain. Then I have my wagon blown up by CC rending attacks and next, I get assaulted where the burnas can shine a second time with the d6 automatic hit on the assault. Could be very interesting to try

 paqman wrote:
Well, I don't know how to beat nidz with my orks yet.
Last game I played, I had 120 boyz with each a nob supported by dakka jets (1250pts game)

My Nidz opponent completelly tabled my by the end of turn 3 with Hormagants, Raveners and venom tropes.
The thing that makes the nids close combats gods is their initiative 5 and up. By the time my orks can hit, more than half pf the unit is gone. So, I cannot imagin using a speed freaks list as well so I can only imagine using a gun line army with shootaboyz, lootas, dakka jets, killa kans with grotzookas, looted wagons and the likes. But I usually make AC lists and my usuall lists are green tides or speed freaks!

I don't play Orks, but I've beaten Nids in assault many times with Grey Hunters. Make them assault you through cover. Now you go first, and they're t3, so even though you lose your furious charge, you're still going to kill a ton of them before they strike.

anonymou5 wrote:

 paqman wrote:
Well, I don't know how to beat nidz with my orks yet.
Last game I played, I had 120 boyz with each a nob supported by dakka jets (1250pts game)

My Nidz opponent completelly tabled my by the end of turn 3 with Hormagants, Raveners and venom tropes.
The thing that makes the nids close combats gods is their initiative 5 and up. By the time my orks can hit, more than half pf the unit is gone. So, I cannot imagin using a speed freaks list as well so I can only imagine using a gun line army with shootaboyz, lootas, dakka jets, killa kans with grotzookas, looted wagons and the likes. But I usually make AC lists and my usuall lists are green tides or speed freaks!

I don't play Orks, but I've beaten Nids in assault many times with Grey Hunters. Make them assault you through cover. Now you go first, and they're t3, so even though you lose your furious charge, you're still going to kill a ton of them before they strike.

That, my friend, is exactly the critical tactical error I did in play. I had the opportunity to do so, but I assaulted my opponent out of my terrain... go figure. Once I started rolling dice I thought "What the hell have I just done!".

I don't know exactly what they are doing better than you besides shooting (which is vague in and of itself).

A standard competitive Necron list (1-2 DLords, 2-3 units of Wraiths, 4-5 units of Warriors in Night Scythes, 3 Annibarges) has some major advantages over Tau.

-Better speed by far
-Better assault capabilities
-Better board control
-More durable (well, aside from Riptides of course)
-More survivable Troops (Tau will have numbers though)

I'm not saying Tau are bad (they may be the best army right now) or that Tau aren't a bad matchup for Necrons (they certainly can be). I am mainly disputing that Tau are "better at said speciality than Necrons." There are still many categories in which the Tau are outclassed.

Sure, Tau will solidly outshoot Crons; however, you have to always keep the mission in mind. You don't need to kill every last Tau unit, enslave their children, and then salt the earth for good measure in order to win a game of 40k. Use your aggressive units to pin them back for as long as possible. Use your speed to grab objectives. Hope the game ends when you need it to.

I would like to meet an army better at dying than my DE...

IMO, Burnas are safe bets (I loaded a Skorcha Looted Wagon up with Burnas and A Big Mek with Burna). Lootas obviously, but don't underestimate a grot carpet, they're cheaper and provide an awesome tarpit with guns.
Burna Bommer too would help, just pray for no flyrants

Assault the shooty units, shoot the assaulty units.

For Tau, they're all mostly shooting units.

To quote the art of war, " Roll more dice then your enemy, and roll them better".
Or something like that.

-Matt

The last two comments kind of summarized the whole game...
I'm gonna steal them... (already did if you don't mind ^^)

But seriously, Necrons are one of the best armies in game. Warriors in Night Scythes. Hold objectives, get some assaulty troops if they fit your style.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

herpguy wrote:
People lose against tau because they think the best way to counter them is to hide on objectives as far away from them as possible. This is dead wrong. You need to put your objectives as close to them as possible and bring the fight to THEM, especially with a mid-range army like necrons.

I like the sound of that as intimidating as a Tau gunline is any recommended units?

Ghost arks are extremely hard for Tau to kill. Annihilation barges will also light them up. Especially with the snap fire boost, barges can move up 12" and still fire with relative accuracy turn 1. Everybody forgets that warriors hit as hard as tactical marines in cc. Since you can assault from ghost arks, it will be something your tau opponent will probably not see coming.
Wraiths can take the fight to the tau, but they will simply get lit up. They're better to be the second wave after your AV13 gets in their face.

Only issue is that with supporting fire you're gonna take bucketloads of casualties on overwatch so it isnt always cut and dry in combat, especially if there are kroot or vespid around (I know they aren't often run but they can be). Plus there are usually enough guns to cause AV13 an issue (jsj fusion blaster suits is one, broadsides another I believe).
And somehow I think cron air will get shot down by all the Skyfire the tau can bring nowadays. And it's a little cheesy maybe I dunno :s.

Instead of taking one wound you take two from overwatch. That must really suck.

Even with Supporting Fire, its still hardly "bucket-loads of casualties"

Ok that was an overstatement, but the more overwatch is fired the more will die and the less attacks you'll get. My apologies Templar.

One or two more casualties are not going to make the combat any more better for the Tau. Anything you get into melee is still going to rip those Firewarriors/suits apart.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
The Necrons out-tough everyone. That's what they're way better at than anyone else ever - very hard to kill for their points.

Very true, but it won't beat a shooty Tau force cos 1 in 3 gets up again cos they'll outshoot the Crons and whittle them down

Should be 1 in 2 gets up again - bring those res-orbs! And 20-man warrior phalanxes are hard to whittle down, while you use wraiths / scarabs / destroyers /other fast things to tie up the tau in Close Combat while the Necron phalanxes get close enough to assault - at which point THEY will be the ones doing the whittling.

Think you should read the Tau codex again, if the Tau can keep their line up you will never get into hth, plain and simple, 20 warriors will go down in one shooting phase no rez protocols for you my friend.
The only answer in beating Tau is hoping that they have LOS blocking terrain and lots of them or its autoloss for every army.

I saw the title of this thread and the first I thought was that you should consider drowining your opponents in bodies. It generally solves most problems.

Would you care to post your list and your opponent's list? Then we can have a look and perhaps see what's possible.