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As far as 40K fluff is concerned, how powerful are psykers supposed to be? I've heard vastly differing fan opinions on the topic. I understand that there are different levels of psyker but, for this discussion's purpose, how powerful is your average Imperial psyker and how powerful are the higher level psykers?

There's not really any such thing as an "average imperial psyker", or an average, period. Each psyker's powers are pretty unique in nature, and the only real exceptions to this are Astropaths and the Navis Nobilitae.

I'd recommend looking up Only War and Dark Heresy for examples of the powers of low-level human psykers, however.

Your "average" Imperial psyker can, depending on his specialty, manipulate the minds of an enemy or two at a time in combat, blast a squad to death with psyflame or lightning, telekinetically toss a large stone with enough force to bash in a flak helmet and kill the person wearing it, etc.

At the highest levels, psykers can circumvent the laws of physics and sunder the veil between the materium and the Warp. Magnus the Red could kill hundreds of Space Wolves with a glance, destroy Titans in personal combat, telepathically induce nightmares on entire planets with a shudder of thought as a side effect of his power, manifest a psychic avatar from across the galaxy, or telepathically murder all the Astropaths of Fenris from star systems away.

That is about as powerful as it gets short of the Emperor.

Lesser, more limited Alpha Plus psykers can manage feats like, in the case of the Burning Princess for example, punching a hole in the hull of a starship with psyflame, or, in the case of that Alpha Plus in Eisenhorn, telepathically assert control over thousands or more individuals to serve as his own personal army.

In the first book, the telepathic feats that Gregor Eisenhorn is capable of performing (limited mind control, implanted suggestions, subtle manipulation of thought-patterns and mind-scanning) is a good, rough estimate of an "average" psyker.

He's not great, he's not powerful, and he's not going to turn the tide of a massive land battle in 99% of cases, because his range isn't great, his power isn't formidable, and most targets have more willpower than he can easily overcome.

Later, of course, he becomes much, much better at this sort of thing, and becomes something closer to the average "battlefield" psyker, but he's not one that's going to be hurling fireballs or anything of the like.

Psyker talents vary wildly, so one might consider a telekine or a pyromancer to be "more powerful" than a diviner or a telepath... but this is somewhat mistaken. Sure, the Diviner isn't going to be blowing things up, but he/she will be able to tell you what course of actions are required to bring you victory.

Also, some pyrokinetic psykers are capable of throwing fireballs without really being all that powerful. A guardsman with a flamer is more dangerous in many cases, until they learn to harness their power better.

Once they do learn to harnest their power, pyrokines are pretty deadly, capable of anything from melta blasts to flamethrowers to fireballs to firestorms (like hailstorms, but with fireballs instead of ice), to warpfire capable of burning the soul itself. All depending on the pyrokine in question.

I recently reread a thousand sons and Magnus seemed to get more powerful as the book went on. At the end he teleported his entire legion of about 100,000, & their continent sized city to the planet of the sorcerors. Russ really should have gotten killed by a angry stare but he actually beat magnus. Off topic I know.


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(sorry for double posting) There's also the Emprah who in his trippiest feat ever regardless of interpretation managed to defeat the void dragon who took possibly 100's of shots from the blackstone fortresses which can destroy solar systems the only effect of which was him being sleepy. He also can enhance his strength to points where he can bust planets....

Magnus is implied to hold back the bulk of his power for much of the book, he has to actively do so for the safety of those around him (Recall when Ahriman actually gets a glimpse of an unbound Magnus' eye, he goes into a seizure and is knocked unconscious. By comparison, hundreds of Space Wolves died).

The Emperor has never destroyed a planet in the fluff, and the Void Dragon was starved when the Emperor fought it.

Though the Emperor has, rather casually, forced the Word Bearers Legion to kneel before him, then telekinetically put them on their backs. He also stood on the other side of the broken Webway Gate, holding back the Daemonic hordes from spilling into Terra. For months.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
He also stood on the other side of the broken Webway Gate, holding back the Daemonic hordes from spilling into Terra. For months.

Is this covered in one of the HH books? I keep seeing it tossed about but never heard a source? I've been wanting to read it if it is on of the HH books

It is from The Sigillite. It is an audiobook.

Ah damn, Whelp. Time to finally open that door! Didn't want to dive into them yet, still a lot of the books I'd like to read.

Thanks Void Dragon

My name is Void__Dragon.

So it's really much more varied than "I'm a psyker and I can throw warp fire at you." I recall a female Malleus Inquisitor from the Gray Knights book who could basically read books really fast with her abilities. Is this considered canon? A psyker super-reader?

That sounds fine to me, could be some telepathic ability or maybe Biomancy (Increasing the rate of her perceptions), whatever.

Psyker strength confuses me too. At the start of First And Only, I think about 2 pskyers die trying to decode a message? If that happens to some, whilst others are Magnus the Red, then I guess there could be any range of pskyer power.
Also, is the reason that encrypted messages kill off lesser psykers so that the messages can only be opened by Generals (who would in theory have more powerful psykers in their staff)?

Keep in mind that Astropaths are entirely different kinds of psyker than the Sanctionites or Navis Nobilitae.

 Terentius wrote:
So it's really much more varied than "I'm a psyker and I can throw warp fire at you." I recall a female Malleus Inquisitor from the Gray Knights book who could basically read books really fast with her abilities. Is this considered canon? A psyker super-reader?

There's no reason it wouldn't be.

My question is that is a psyker born with what aspect of the power he will be good at (pyrokine, telekine) or does he learn it through situation? Say if a telepath was really stressed could he throw a fireball? Or is he more likely to do a psykic screech? Even if he has been taught neither.

Also, how is an 'average' psyker detected to be shipped off to the black ships, do they have detectors or do they have to wait till said psyker accidently blows up a house before they take him away?

Generally, they have a natural aptitude and develop that aptitude. Quality over quantity. Whether it is an aptitude they are born with or one developed by necessity is impossible to determine.

They can branch out a bit though. Eisenhorn has used telekinesis for example, despite being a natural telepath.

There does exist psychic detecting equipment, yes.

 JimWillis wrote:
At the start of First And Only, I think about 2 pskyers die trying to decode a message? If that happens to some, whilst others are Magnus the Red, then I guess there could be any range of pskyer power.

Yes, there's a lot of range. But for practical reasons the Imperium can't really use the more powerful individuals. Someone like Eisenhorn who was detected and recruited into the Inquisition is on a "safe" level of power - he can do things but his talents mostly just make him a more efficient Inquisitor. A Primaris Psyker can support a squad of guardsmen in battle but isn't powerful enough to accidentally blow up Regimental HQ when upset.

A psyker born with the power to influence whole cities or blow up small mountains isn't normally safe to even try training. The chance that he'll resent taking orders from insects, the chance that he'll destroy more than was needed, the chance that he'll decide he should be in charge since he's powerful...

Among other psychic races you can notice the same trend. Eldar limit themself, channeling their power through rituals, meditations and psychic devices. Orks usually chain their Weirdboyz to the top of a copper pillar so they don't blow up the camp by accident, only taking them down when needed in battle.

Yeah, psykers beta level or higher are not really considered for training IIRC. They are just too dangerous.

As powerful as the author needs them to be to fit into the story.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Yeah, psykers beta level or higher are not really considered for training IIRC. They are just too dangerous.

That said, some psykers become that powerful through training and experience, in a similar manner to someone exercising to become stronger than they naturally were.

 DA's Forever wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
He also stood on the other side of the broken Webway Gate, holding back the Daemonic hordes from spilling into Terra. For months.

Is this covered in one of the HH books? I keep seeing it tossed about but never heard a source? I've been wanting to read it if it is on of the HH books

It is also covered in the HH art book collected visions. The last few pages basically give away all the secrets of what was going on in the Imperial basement.

 Melissia wrote:
That said, some psykers become that powerful through training and experience, in a similar manner to someone exercising to become stronger than they naturally were.

That is true.

Tigurius is not likely a beta level psyker, but he can match one in single combat due to his high training and experience I'd reckon. Same goes for Ahriman, one of the single most powerful psykers in the galaxy.

This of course makes psykers such as the Emperor or Magnus especially powerful. High alpha plus, and the self-control and training to further hone their ability.

I would say that at the start of the Horus Heresy, Magnus wasn't even close to the Emperor's level. The Emperor was likely an alpha-plus level psyker to begin with, and had 40,000 years (from whenever he was "born" in Anatolia, which I estimate was well before the establishment of most modern religions... to 30,000-ish AD) to develop their powers, and the willpower of countless "shamans", plus what appears to be a unique sense of "purity" in their psychic powers, assuming miracles are caused by the Emperor.

Likely not, but he is still the second most powerful human (If you are willing to stretch the term's definition) psyker to have ever lived. And more powerful than any seen Eldar as well. But both are examples of alpha plus psykers who also trained their abilities further. The only examples I can recall, in fact. Most don't have the sanity to consider further honing their power.

Magnus is not human. Nor was he, at any point, human-- even before his descent in to daemon princedom.

That side, Malcador was more powerful.

 Melissia wrote:
Magnus is not human. Nor was he, at any point, human-- even before his descent in to daemon princedom.

That side, Malcador was more powerful.

You should practice reading people's entire posts more often.

Based on what was Malcador more powerful?

Malcador did "sit in" for the Emperor for awhile (quite literally) without any sort of warning or preparation.

And died soon after.

Magnus was intended to sit on the Throne indefinitely.

From my point of view. A theta level psyker is barely able to read minds, while an Alpha plus can wipe the floor with a Lord of Change, and make two Bloodthirsters mount eachother just because it amuses him.


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Plus Magnus was intended to end up at the Golden Throne for life, or so it seems by Empy for eternity, while Malcador lasted for just a short while. This ain't even close, Malcador was powerful yes, but second most powerful in the galaxy? I would say nay.