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Hi,

Thanks in advance for taking a loo9k at this thread, it is great appreciated.

I have a BA opponent who regularly uses 2 stormravens to bring in his heavy hitters right into the thick of battle. its a very do or die list that he uses. It either works perfectly or it falls on its ass. But as a nid player i seem to only have 1 reply to them; flying hive tyrants with 2x T/L devs with BLW. and thats pretty much it... no seriously. harpy's dont work coz you cant use template weapons on fliers. I cant take an aegis defence line coz that got FAQ'd. Vector stike only hits on base str so im still just glancing on 6's. Hive Guard deny jink saves but i still need to snap fire...

Is there anything else i havent thought of? or is GW purposely screwing with nid players until we get a new codex in a years time?

No, you are not missing anything of consequence. However Tyranids are a Horde army at their heart, and there isn't enough firepower on most Flying armies to do anything about your scoring potential. Either use Flyrants, or ignore them and deal with the payload when it arrives. Camp all scoring you can, as there is nothing Flyers do about that.

Tyranids can't take defence lines?

 Marzillius wrote:
Tyranids can't take defence lines?

Well, they can, but can't fire the guns, which defeats most of the point...

I suspect we'll be waiting until the next nid codex for some decent anti-flyer units - and quite possibly a 'proper' flyer kit of our own (either a rewrite of Harpies, or some new beasty)

3 tervigon, 3 troop picks of termagaunts, spawn 3 more troop picks = win against Ba usually.

They can't put up enough bodies to win, your biggest fear from the flyers should be the s10 hit it has when/if you shoot it down with your flyrants.

Board control says it all... Just wrap your Tervigons in gants so he can't assault them directly, then kill stuff as it lands.

Thank you all. Your advice, as always, is very much appreciated.

Vector strike is a good option, if the Biomancy power, Iron Arm increases the strength.

I'm unsure, as it says under vector strike, the models unmodified strength

But the power buffs the strength, so doesn't the models unmodified strength count as is after the power has taken effect (i.e. 6+D3)

Anyhow, in my experience, it's better to ignore them.

Another excellent counter (again relying on a psychic power, though not too bad for a couple zoanthroapes to try for it) is "Objuration Mechanicum" & "Crush" in Telekenesis. (the former being far greater than the latter)

As for what the others said, I gotta give them credit, 2 stormravens is a lot of points, it should allow you the chance to gain board control

Vector Strike is your Base Strength. Iron Arm doesn't work with Vector Strikes unfortunately. S6 VS is borderline useless because it counts as having fired half of your weapons. If you are set on trying to kill a flyer, you'd fly past it and shoot 12 S6 Devourer shots into it rather than VS through it and only shot 6 shots.

In my experience with 6th edition, over 50 games as Nids (including 2 tournaments), just ignore them. Your flyers do a lot more damage to everything else than their flyers. 12 shots at S6 is huge. Most flyers can only throw out 3 for vendettas, 6 from Ravens (12 if you are in rapid fire of Hurricane Bolters) all at different strengths, or 4 from Scythes. Nids, arguably, got the best flyers. Yes, they can be grounded, and they don't have armor value, but since they are MCs, they can get cover saves by just standing in Area Terrain, or better yet, fly "over" a ruin and get 4+ cover save.

TMCs are simply overpowered in 6th edition. Use them with finesse and with the right list and you'll see more and more Nids making it to tournaments. If anything, pray Matt Ward isn't prioritizing the Nids codex. They are in a good spot atm.

Yeah if you are flying and trying to claim you have cover from the trees below you... I am calling shinanigans on that. You're not IN the terrain if you're over it.

RAW, Tyrants are MCs and claim cover while in Area Terrain, you don't even need 25% coverage. You simply need to be in Area Terrain. I guess that's up to you and your opponent to decide what is "fair". I'm just stating the rules Another weird rule, since it's an MC and not a typical flyer, if you are in Area Terrain that gives 5+ cover, and you're flying with your MC, all you need is a foot in it (a faction of its base) and you'll get the full cover save, swooping or gliding. Welcome to 6th edition! hehe.

Plus, if you don't want to grant cover to the MCwhile it is in air, you can jink for 5+ cover save and if you do get grounded by shooting, you will get the 4+ cover from the ruin when you land. It's a win/win to always try to give your MCs into cover, regardless if you're flying or not.

FYI, normal flyers (such as Vendettas/Ravens, etc) get cover saves from ruins as well as long as it's true LOS and they get 25% los blocked. The fact that it's a FMC and in a ruin just means that you get the cover save for being in it. Models (like MCs) don't need 25% obscured in area terrain. You won't make friends, but you'll get your cover saves

youre not IN it. So thats irrelevant to me.

By RAW, there is nothing stopping you from getting the cover save that I can see, but I put up a thread in YMDC to discuss that particular point.

In fact, RAW you can even hide your zooming FMC behind a ruin or something and get cover as long as real los makes 25% cover.
They probably fly very fast, very low

No where does it read FMC need 25%. I thought so too, but they simply need to be in the terrain. If their base is in the ruins, or any level of the ruin, they get the full over save.

If I remember correctly, models with bases do need 25% for LOS reasons, but if they are in Area Terrain like Ruins, they just need to be inside of them. So a FMC that is swooping (in air) can be on the top level (in the wide open even) and still grant 4+ save from the ruins. Like it or not, these are the rules.

On that note, I generally ask my opponent if they want to play RAW or their interpretation at the start of every game. If they argue that MC shouldn't get cover saves in ruins just because they are taller, not only are they wrong, I'll usually just do a roll off. MCs, flying or not, still get their cover save because they are a model with a base. Not a vehicle.

RAW and their category as a MC grants them cover from Area Terrain like any other model.

Vehicles (including flyers) need 25% obscured to receive the benefit. They CAN NOT go in area terrain to get the save. They actually need 25% obscured.