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Ok so i have been using my Dreadlord on pegasus (DE player) and been giving him vanguard movements. But at a tournament 2 weeks ago I was told that it did not have the vanguard rule.

Page 85 states that if a character rides a monstrous beast it becomes MC
Page 70 under fly rules state that flying cavalry have the fast cavalry rule
Page 68 states that fast cavalry has vanguard

Their argument for it not being vanguard is that the rule says flying cavalry and does not mention monstrous cavalry so therefor i don't have have it.

As far as i can tell the only flying cavalry in warhammer is monstrous cavalry. And whether it's normal or MC it's still a form of flying cavalry so i should be able to use vanguard.

If anyone can help me to make my point to the organisers (as there is another tourney coming up) or if there is some rule that i am missing or even if the organisers are right can you please let me know.

Thanks in advance

You don't get Fast Cav or Vanguard as the Dreadlord on a Pegasus isn't Flying Cavalry therefor you don't get it.

But even the example they use in the BRB on page 70 for flying cavalry is using the Bretonnian pegasus Knight which is only classed as MC.

Note that they say "noble Bretonnian Pegasus Knight", not a "Bretonnian Noble mounted on a Royal Pegasus"
So they are citing a Flying Cav unit as an example, not a character on a flying mount

As above. You are conflating two terms.

Flying Cav gets vanguard. Flying Monstrous Cav does not.

The devil is in the details.

Bretonnian Pegasus knights have the 'Flying Cavalry' rule. No other unit in the game does, regardless of the mount... not even Bretonnian characters on Pegasi, which are very nearly the same thing.

nosferatu1001 misses a point, because Bret Pegasus Knights are indeed, both "Flying Cavalry" (by virtue of their special rule), and "Monstrous Cavalry" (by virtue of being called that in the Bestiary section of the BRB).

Ah yes, forgot how crazy their ruleset was.

I just found on page 83 of the BRB the rule that states all MC use the same rules as normal cavalry. which would make it flying cav

However at the same time in the DE book under pegasus in special rules it only says flyer. Does this mean it does not have stomp and swiftstride because those rules are coming from the BRB

According to the BRB the bestiary lists the DE Dark Pegasus as a Monstrous Beast and not as Monstrous Cavalry. Therefor the rules for the Pegasus would be those of the MB which are found on page 85. That means it has Stomp and swiftstride in addition to Fly.

yes it is a MB but as stated on page 85 of BRB when taken as a mount it becomes MC. and on page 83 it says that MC follows all rules as cavalry.
That means it has Stomp and swiftstride in addition to Fly, which would make it flying cavalry and follow the fast cavalry rules also

The part you are not understanding is FLYING CAVALRY. There is a difference between having FLY and Being Cavalry and ACTUALLY being FLYING CAVALRY.

Flying Cavalry is a special rule that very very few units in the game have i think there are 2-3 total. Cavalry is a unit type. Flying is a special rule. Therefor it is possible to have cavalry with flying that is not Flying Cavalry.

 Florintine Mallorean wrote:
The part you are not understanding is FLYING CAVALRY. There is a difference between having FLY and Being Cavalry and ACTUALLY being FLYING CAVALRY.

Flying Cavalry is a special rule that very very few units in the game have i think there are 2-3 total. Cavalry is a unit type. Flying is a special rule. Therefor it is possible to have cavalry with flying that is not Flying Cavalry.

Peg Knights, Terradons, Warhawk Riders. I don't think plague drones got it (they hover, not fly).
That's it.

-Matt

It's sort of like the Fast Cavalry rule itself. Not all cavalry has the Fast Cavalry rule; not all cavalry that flies has the Flying Cavalry rule.

 Darth Wraith wrote:

Page 85 states that if a character rides a monstrous beast it becomes MC
Page 70 under fly rules state that flying cavalry have the fast cavalry rule

There's no connection between these two sentences. Logically speaking, you need a terminus medius.
The first premise has character - MB - MC.
The second premise has FlyCav - FastCav. No terms are alike.

 Darth Wraith wrote:

I just found on page 83 of the BRB the rule that states all MC use the same rules as normal cavalry. which would make it flying cav

No, it would not. You really need to double-check your logic: Normal cavalry or using its rules does not make itself or anything else flying cavalry.

Ok. It doesn't have it. Thanks all