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Hey everyone!

This is a rule I thought should be apart of the Tau Codex for a very long time. Since the Tau's whole deal is incorporating enemies into their own armies, shouldn't this show itself in the actual tabletop game?

My proposed rule is this:

That any Tau army may take one troop unit from any other army as a part of their main force without having to adhere to the allies rules

The unit would be said to be converted to the Tau'Va, and is essentially apart of the same army as the rest of the Tau units.

WHY?
1. On a basic level, the Tau are not a super interesting race. They don't really have a "thing". I'm sure people will say, "oh, they're the tech people. There whole thing is based on super cool tech" but as far as story crafting / "forging a narrative" within the 40k universe, it's WEAK. This ability to convert units not only gives the Tau play a lot of interesting tactical options, but makes them more interesting and threatening. The idea of crafting a sweet story battle where the enemy has to fight their own, since they have been converted, and now serve only the Tau'Va is COOL to say the least.
2. What about the Nids? This is negotiable. On a fluff level it makes sense for the Nids to be incapable of being actual allies with anyone, however if GW let the converting power of the Tau be so potent that even a stray group of Gaunts would be able to be held sway by it, then it would be AWESOME.
3. What about Chaos? Chaos already can be allies with Tau, and again I feel this is negotiable. This would really enhance the powerfulness of the Tau and really allow for some cool stories / armies to unfold.

What do you guys think?

Personally I'm against it. I'd concur with IG being capable of being incorporated to represent the human auxillary.... but it the rest doesn't make much sense and also seems like something that could easily be manipulated.

Nids? Really doesn't make much sense. A small squad of gaunts at best would blindly run around as wild beasts. Necrons? Why would they ever ally with the Tau when they can instead squash them with their vastly superior technology? DE? Dark Eldar allied and then immediately back stabbed the Tau. Eldar? Even these people that seem to think of Tau as a younger version of themself wouldn't really be converted to their side. They are focused on their survival and hopefully freedom from Slaanesh. Space Marines? A bit more arguable but even then I think battle brothers is fine enough. Chaos? CSM could temporarily ally but Chaos Daemons? Not as sure especially since Daemons are extremely restricted on when and where they can pop up.

Also Tau are already pretty threatening. At least where I am, they are a top tier codex that is also balanced. In the end though, it depends on what the people you play with care about. If they agree then have fun!

So tell me more about how you intend to indoctrinate Chaos Daemons, Grey Knights, and Tyranids into the greater good.

I really don't see what the point of the rule is and if you think the Tau aren't interesting or have a weak story, then I think you may be reading the wrong book for possibly the wrong game.

Secondly this is kinda broken since you're allowing Tau to take any single troop choice effectively as a battle brother without having to take the mandatory HQ and still allowing the addition of allies as well.

The only legitimate way this would work would be a special rule for the allies chart where Tau can forgo taking an elite, fast attack, or heavy support in order to take 1-3 units of troops from a battle brother army only.

While I see your point that they take under their wing other races and they become apart of the greater good, they do not have the ability to indoctrine vast forces which other races of 40k represent.

The Tau take in small worlds that dont have the ability to fight back or standup for their own values. The kroot represent one such race.

This rule would be completely abused as well.
I would also argue the same rule could be made for DE, except the troops choice are slaves of the DE and fighting for their souls/lives, whatever it is.

Just make them battle brothers with codex:mercenary. when it comes out one day.

Also the Tau have abandoned any and all hope of assimilating the Tyranids. Their name for them; Y'he, translates into monsters. The Tau are terrified of the Tyranids, hive fleet Gorgon has left deep scars into them. They're the only race that the Tau don't even consider talking to, a nightmare that the Tau dread the return of. And given that the Tyranids can crush them like a grape if they just sent a few tendrils of Leviathan at them, they have good reason to be terrified of the menace from beyond the stars.

Cool Idea, but as seen in the BRB they can ally with most armies without penalties which I think is good enough,
also as said above, I think it would get abused

TheKoop wrote:
Hey everyone!

This is a rule I thought should be apart of the Tau Codex for a very long time. Since the Tau's whole deal is incorporating enemies into their own armies, shouldn't this show itself in the actual tabletop game?

My proposed rule is this:

That any Tau army may take one troop unit from any other army as a part of their main force without having to adhere to the allies rules

The unit would be said to be converted to the Tau'Va, and is essentially apart of the same army as the rest of the Tau units.

WHY?
1. On a basic level, the Tau are not a super interesting race. They don't really have a "thing". I'm sure people will say, "oh, they're the tech people. There whole thing is based on super cool tech" but as far as story crafting / "forging a narrative" within the 40k universe, it's WEAK. This ability to convert units not only gives the Tau play a lot of interesting tactical options, but makes them more interesting and threatening. The idea of crafting a sweet story battle where the enemy has to fight their own, since they have been converted, and now serve only the Tau'Va is COOL to say the least.
2. What about the Nids? This is negotiable. On a fluff level it makes sense for the Nids to be incapable of being actual allies with anyone, however if GW let the converting power of the Tau be so potent that even a stray group of Gaunts would be able to be held sway by it, then it would be AWESOME.
3. What about Chaos? Chaos already can be allies with Tau, and again I feel this is negotiable. This would really enhance the powerfulness of the Tau and really allow for some cool stories / armies to unfold.

What do you guys think?

Tau: Join the greater good guys! It'll be awesome, we'll all progress together and be friends and have peace everlasting! Yay!
Space Marines: We're still pretty upset about that whole Damocles thing. How bout I just shoot you instead?
Blood Angels: I... RAAAAAGGHHHHHHH! *revs chainsword*
Black Templars: Not human... therefore can't be a heretic. Xenos... so... no?
Dark Angels: ... *shoots emissary*
Grey Knights: Die, xenos. *immolates emissary*
Sisters of Battle: What he said.
Imperial Guard: How much does that pay?
Eldar: Go away kid.
Dark Eldar. Sweet deal. Let's do it. You go first. *readies net*
Necrons: EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!
Orks: Waaaaaaaagggghhhhhhhhhh! *krump*
Chaos Marines: Will those guns work, ya' know, if you're not holding them?
Daemons: Shlikt fik fatgn rssssshhhhlk! *Eats/dismembers/liquefies/seduces and tortures/all of the above tau emissary*
Tyranids: nom nom nom *belch*

Good comments guys, especially on some gameplay stuff.

Yeah I think in terms of the fluff, 'crons, nids and chaos are out of the question, but the rest... I don't think so.

The Tau really need a buff in fluff, something to make them stand out as a real competitor on the galactic stage, first of all I think a bigger range of expansion and conversion should have happened as a part of this new codex. If Tau's thing was conversion and technological production, you'd think these elements would show themselves in a larger capacity.

Especially when it comes to Space Marines, I think it would be an amazingly crazy plot device in either a GW novel (and especially a narrative driven table-top experience), if the Tau were so convincing (almost supernaturally) that the Space Marines had to fight against their own brothers, not corrupted by chaos but just ideologically different.

TheKoop wrote:
Good comments guys, especially on some gameplay stuff.

Yeah I think in terms of the fluff, 'crons, nids and chaos are out of the question, but the rest... I don't think so.

The Tau really need a buff in fluff, something to make them stand out as a real competitor on the galactic stage, first of all I think a bigger range of expansion and conversion should have happened as a part of this new codex. If Tau's thing was conversion and technological production, you'd think these elements would show themselves in a larger capacity.

Especially when it comes to Space Marines, I think it would be an amazingly crazy plot device in either a GW novel (and especially a narrative driven table-top experience), if the Tau were so convincing (almost supernaturally) that the Space Marines had to fight against their own brothers, not corrupted by chaos but just ideologically different.

TBH, their expansion is actually faster than what you should realistically (well, for 40k, anyway...) expect. They don't have a really great FTL system (which is glossed over for the most part in the fluff), and they don't really have the population for rapid expansion. Given that they're constantly harassed by Orks and had to deal with Tyranids recently, I don't think their expansion is too small, given the circumstances.

TheKoop wrote:
Good comments guys, especially on some gameplay stuff.

Yeah I think in terms of the fluff, 'crons, nids and chaos are out of the question, but the rest... I don't think so.

The Tau really need a buff in fluff, something to make them stand out as a real competitor on the galactic stage, first of all I think a bigger range of expansion and conversion should have happened as a part of this new codex. If Tau's thing was conversion and technological production, you'd think these elements would show themselves in a larger capacity.

Especially when it comes to Space Marines, I think it would be an amazingly crazy plot device in either a GW novel (and especially a narrative driven table-top experience), if the Tau were so convincing (almost supernaturally) that the Space Marines had to fight against their own brothers, not corrupted by chaos but just ideologically different.

Really?

We got an ally matrix of multiple levels of unfluffyness. Parts of the IoM can't ally so well even when its pretty idiotic to keep the ones most likely campaigning alongside in a crusade split up...

Space Marines were made to fight xenos, to claim the galaxy in the name of the Emperor. Both flavors, be they loyal or traitor would agree on a xeno-free galaxy. So your ideology does not work. The loyal ones want the xeno dead right now, the traitors want them dead a bit later...

Tau Fluff is fine, their concept is fine, their rules are fine, the only thing that I would change regarding the allies matrix, is to switch space marines and IG around, space marines as battle brothers is kinda silly as a over all rule, maybe ultras like them , but why would Salamanders, celestial lions, or Marines Malevolent be bestest buddies with them, While IG units and PDF have been used to fight alongside the Tau as auxiliaries...but hey that's GW for ya.

 1hadhq wrote:

TheKoop wrote:
Good comments guys, especially on some gameplay stuff.

Yeah I think in terms of the fluff, 'crons, nids and chaos are out of the question, but the rest... I don't think so.

The Tau really need a buff in fluff, something to make them stand out as a real competitor on the galactic stage, first of all I think a bigger range of expansion and conversion should have happened as a part of this new codex. If Tau's thing was conversion and technological production, you'd think these elements would show themselves in a larger capacity.

Especially when it comes to Space Marines, I think it would be an amazingly crazy plot device in either a GW novel (and especially a narrative driven table-top experience), if the Tau were so convincing (almost supernaturally) that the Space Marines had to fight against their own brothers, not corrupted by chaos but just ideologically different.

Really?

We got an ally matrix of multiple levels of unfluffyness. Parts of the IoM can't ally so well even when its pretty idiotic to keep the ones most likely campaigning alongside in a crusade split up...

Space Marines were made to fight xenos, to claim the galaxy in the name of the Emperor. Both flavors, be they loyal or traitor would agree on a xeno-free galaxy. So your ideology does not work. The loyal ones want the xeno dead right now, the traitors want them dead a bit later...

Pretty much. With SM and CSM I can see an ally of convenience vis a vis an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of scenario. But that's about it. A particularly persuasive ethereal might net a few solitary SMs or renegades, but most would rather die. In both cases, the indoctrination is too strong-- it's been going on since they were children-- there's mental programming, psychic protection, religious indoctrination, mnemonic devices and chants, and maybe most importantly, the fact that they're not really human anymore and don't have a purpose beyond killing their enemies.
Neither Eldar nor Dark Eldar would bow to some upstart new race that just showed on the stage and thinks they've got the answers to the galaxy's problems. Even more so since the Tau are completely ignorant of the Great Enemy.
Orks and nids?... well, that's covered pretty well in the 'dex.
With regard to a general fluff boost? They don't need it. They've got their schtick-- they're new and they're progressive, and in 40k that makes them absolutely unique. They're the exception to the grimdark rule, though they have become progressively more sinister with each passing book-- and that might foreshadow their eventual fall. A lot of their peaceful conversions are not-so-subtle threats and outright coercion. You don't want the greater good? Too bad. We'll build it on your corpses.
There's a reason Farsight split off and the ethereals denounced him. He knows something he shouldn't.

With regard to a general fluff boost? They don't need it. They've got their schtick-- they're new and they're progressive, and in 40k that makes them absolutely unique. They're the exception to the grimdark rule, though they have become progressively more sinister with each passing book-- and that might foreshadow their eventual fall. A lot of their peaceful conversions are not-so-subtle threats and outright coercion. You don't want the greater good? Too bad. We'll build it on your corpses.
There's a reason Farsight split off and the ethereals denounced him. He knows something he shouldn't.

YES.

If the Black Library were good they would already have a series about the deep, dark, dirty secrets of the Ethereals.
...
But they're not, which is why I rant about LCB being the best 40K ever written and not ultrasmurf adventures.

Back OT, SM and Eldar are good for allies, Gue'vasa(humans) should be their own troops choice, they should cost differently and be armed differently, maybe w/ pulse rifles for about 4ppm.