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I'm pretty interested in starting Eldar and really like the Wraithlord model.
What are the best loadouts? Please share any and all experience!

Two-fisted dust collectors.

2 flamers aways, as for the rest we can run down the super average math against guardsmen, marines and termies

Dual shuriken: 6 shots, 4 hits, 4 dead guardsmen, 1 dead marine, 0 dead termies.

Dual scatter lasers: 8 shots, 6 hits, 4 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 0 dead termies.

Dual starcannons: 4 shots, 3 hits, 3 dead guardsmen, 3 dead marines, 2 dead termies

Dual lances: 2 shots, 2 hits, 2 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 2 dead termies

Dual missiles (starshot): 2 shots, 2 hits, 2 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 0 dead termies.

Dual missiles (plasma assuming 3 hits each) 2 shots, 6 hits, 4 dead guardsmen, 1 dead marine, 0 dead termies.

Now with scatter lasers firing first!
w/shuriken: 7 shots, 6 hits (3 scat, 3 shuri), 4 -5 dead guardsmen, 2-3 dead marines, 0-1 dead termies

w/starcannon: 6 shots, 5 hits (3 scat, 2 star), 4 dead guardsmen, 3 dead marines, 2 dead termies

w/lance: 5 shots, 4 hits (3 scat, 1 lance) 3 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 1 dead termie

w/missile (starshot): 5 shots, 4 hits (3 scat, 1 missile) 3 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 0 dead termies.

w/missile (plasma): 5 shots, 6 hits (3 scat 3 plasma) 4 dead guardsmen, 1-2 marines, 0 dead termies.

Overall winner is scatter laser and starcannon combo, followed closely by Dual starcannons. Now try it with cover and see which one tops out and compare wounds for the best possible combo.

^^Thanks for doing the math amigo.

Scatter laser/Star Cannon was my gut feeling, and you have confirmed. I think the sword is worth taking for the extra strength and havin sp2 without using smash attack. Advance to mid field shooting and assault anything that gets close

I ran the numbers against cover and its pretty much the same against 5+. Its pretty safe to go from there.

 Ravenous D wrote:
2 flamers aways, as for the rest we can run down the super average math against guardsmen, marines and termies

Dual shuriken: 6 shots, 4 hits, 4 dead guardsmen, 1 dead marine, 0 dead termies.

Dual scatter lasers: 8 shots, 6 hits, 4 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 0 dead termies.

Dual starcannons: 4 shots, 3 hits, 3 dead guardsmen, 3 dead marines, 2 dead termies

Dual lances: 2 shots, 2 hits, 2 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 2 dead termies

Dual missiles (starshot): 2 shots, 2 hits, 2 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 0 dead termies.

Dual missiles (plasma assuming 3 hits each) 2 shots, 6 hits, 4 dead guardsmen, 1 dead marine, 0 dead termies.

Now with scatter lasers firing first!
w/shuriken: 7 shots, 6 hits (3 scat, 3 shuri), 4 -5 dead guardsmen, 2-3 dead marines, 0-1 dead termies

w/starcannon: 6 shots, 5 hits (3 scat, 2 star), 4 dead guardsmen, 3 dead marines, 2 dead termies

w/lance: 5 shots, 4 hits (3 scat, 1 lance) 3 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 1 dead termie

w/missile (starshot): 5 shots, 4 hits (3 scat, 1 missile) 3 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 0 dead termies.

w/missile (plasma): 5 shots, 6 hits (3 scat 3 plasma) 4 dead guardsmen, 1-2 marines, 0 dead termies.

Overall winner is scatter laser and starcannon combo, followed closely by Dual starcannons. Now try it with cover and see which one tops out and compare wounds for the best possible combo.

Wow, great summary! Thanks

And just to mention, falcons with scat, shuri, and holo fields is the same points as most of those Wraithlords and dumps out more damage and carries a unit inside. Defensive wise is up in the air which can last longer.

7 dead guardsmen, 4 dead marines, 2-3 dead termies.

Good job with the run down.

As a side note the dual BL is actually not bad as a long range AV killer.

If I take WLs, it's going to be with Dual Lances.

The Wave Serpents provide all the medium dakka I need. WLs are there for the rare AV 13+ target. If there are no such targets, I'll just run them at my enemy. Dual flamers and the cheap sword make him a nasty threat in assault.

The problem with the maths is that it doesn't take two big factors into account - Guide/Prescience, and spirit-marking. I aim to use either of these (whatever's best turn-by-turn) to run mine with dual Bright Lances for anti-tank. Such buffing sees much more limited results using blast weapons...

Of course, I have yet to actually try this out in battle

The loadouts are pretty much the same with rerolls, scat/starcannon comes out on top with dual starcannons behind.

Dual lances is pretty consistent too. Any of those 3 is good.

 Ravenous D wrote:
The loadouts are pretty much the same with rerolls, scat/starcannon comes out on top with dual starcannons behind.

Dual lances is pretty consistent too. Any of those 3 is good.

+1 to this, those three loadouts are why you should magnetize the weapons...except the flamers. Always take the flamers.

I ran two of them, using the new codex for the first time last night. I was up against a dualwing DA list, and the lords were my star performers.

The first was dual BL, the second was SL/SC. Both have their merits. The BL one was an effective fire platform, and you can almost guarantee that at least one will be alive and kicking on turn 3-4. The benefit of the other loadout is the ability to shoot then assault into a squad, not wasting the firepower. But i'm pretty happy with the BL/Bl loadout, and think I may keep them that way.

Even better in assault now too, the extra attack was more than helpful, and they have retained the Character status so they can challenge out powerfists and the like.

So yeah, BL/BL is my favourite, just because they make such a solid platform to shoot from, and they can almost always get line of sight, and have no issue advancing forward into oncoming fire. Being able to say "Bolters can't hurt him, and that plasma-cannnon wounds on a 5." is always fun. I'd like to run a list of two lords, wraithknight, avatar and everything else in Serpents/Reserves. Immune to first blood, i'd say.

Just make sure you pop a bit of the lord into area terrain

 Ravenous D wrote:
2 flamers aways, as for the rest we can run down the super average math against guardsmen, marines and termies

Dual shuriken: 6 shots, 4 hits, 4 dead guardsmen, 1 dead marine, 0 dead termies.

Dual scatter lasers: 8 shots, 6 hits, 4 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 0 dead termies.

Dual starcannons: 4 shots, 3 hits, 3 dead guardsmen, 3 dead marines, 2 dead termies

Dual lances: 2 shots, 2 hits, 2 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 2 dead termies

Dual missiles (starshot): 2 shots, 2 hits, 2 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 0 dead termies.

Dual missiles (plasma assuming 3 hits each) 2 shots, 6 hits, 4 dead guardsmen, 1 dead marine, 0 dead termies.

Now with scatter lasers firing first!
w/shuriken: 7 shots, 6 hits (3 scat, 3 shuri), 4 -5 dead guardsmen, 2-3 dead marines, 0-1 dead termies

w/starcannon: 6 shots, 5 hits (3 scat, 2 star), 4 dead guardsmen, 3 dead marines, 2 dead termies

w/lance: 5 shots, 4 hits (3 scat, 1 lance) 3 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 1 dead termie

w/missile (starshot): 5 shots, 4 hits (3 scat, 1 missile) 3 dead guardsmen, 2 dead marines, 0 dead termies.

w/missile (plasma): 5 shots, 6 hits (3 scat 3 plasma) 4 dead guardsmen, 1-2 marines, 0 dead termies.

Overall winner is scatter laser and starcannon combo, followed closely by Dual starcannons. Now try it with cover and see which one tops out and compare wounds for the best possible combo.

Thanks a lot for the math.

And just to mention, falcons with scat, shuri, and holo fields is the same points as most of those Wraithlords and dumps out more damage and carries a unit inside. Defensive wise is up in the air which can last longer.

7 dead guardsmen, 4 dead marines, 2-3 dead termies.

Not surprising at all, which is really too bad.

EDIT:

Thanks for doing the math amigo.

Scatter laser/Star Cannon was my gut feeling, and you have confirmed. I think the sword is worth taking for the extra strength and havin sp2 without using smash attack. Advance to mid field shooting and assault anything that gets close

You don't need to smash attack, to benefit from AP2. You gain AP2 just from having the smash USR.

And just to mention, falcons with scat, shuri, and holo fields is the same points as most of those Wraithlords and dumps out more damage and carries a unit inside. Defensive wise is up in the air which can last longer.

Last I checked, Wraithlords arn't knocked out of the sky by a stray lascannon shot. Wraithlords are definitely more resilient.

Do they have 3 str 8 attacks at Ap2? 2 flamers? Do they look scary as all hell and attract all your opponents firepower?

Belly wrote:

And just to mention, falcons with scat, shuri, and holo fields is the same points as most of those Wraithlords and dumps out more damage and carries a unit inside. Defensive wise is up in the air which can last longer.

Last I checked, Wraithlords arn't knocked out of the sky by a stray lascannon shot. Wraithlords are definitely more resilient.

Do they have 3 str 8 attacks at Ap2? 2 flamers? Do they look scary as all hell and attract all your opponents firepower?

Yeah, and a Falcon can't be killed from a round of poison.

You can't just pull one example, and treat as fact. There are a lot of factors into looking into both of them being resilient.

 Sasori wrote:

Yeah, and a Falcon can't be killed from a round of poison.

You can't just pull one example, and treat as fact. There are a lot of factors into looking into both of them being resilient.

Very true, falcons also have to worry about Meltas, krak missiles, lance weapons, railguns, plasmaguns, and any sort of powerfist/powerclaw. Wraithlords on the other hand need to worry about all those weapons out there that ignore toughness. With the huge amount of Dark Eldar and Kroot Snipers running around, I certainly see your point.

Belly wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Yeah, and a Falcon can't be killed from a round of poison.

You can't just pull one example, and treat as fact. There are a lot of factors into looking into both of them being resilient.

Very true, falcons also have to worry about Meltas, krak missiles, lance weapons, railguns, plasmaguns, and any sort of powerfist/powerclaw. Wraithlords on the other hand need to worry about all those weapons out there that ignore toughness. With the huge amount of Dark Eldar and Kroot Snipers running around, I certainly see your point.

And Wraithlords don't have to worry about those weapons as well? There is a reason no one has taken Wraithlords. I'll give you a hint, it's because they are not resilient at all.

Yeah, Don't forget Deathmarks, rangers. You've also got all those weapons you've mentioned, where Wraithlords tend to be just as vulnerable to as well.

That's not even counting the melee poison.

 Sasori wrote:

Belly wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Yeah, and a Falcon can't be killed from a round of poison.

You can't just pull one example, and treat as fact. There are a lot of factors into looking into both of them being resilient.

Very true, falcons also have to worry about Meltas, krak missiles, lance weapons, railguns, plasmaguns, and any sort of powerfist/powerclaw. Wraithlords on the other hand need to worry about all those weapons out there that ignore toughness. With the huge amount of Dark Eldar and Kroot Snipers running around, I certainly see your point.

And Wraithlords don't have to worry about those weapons as well? There is a reason no one has taken Wraithlords. I'll give you a hint, it's because they are not resilient at all.

Yeah, Don't forget Deathmarks, rangers. You've also got all those weapons you've mentioned, where Wraithlords tend to be just as vulnerable to as well.

That's not even counting the melee poison.

Wraithlords have, and will continue to be taken by Eldar players. In the previous codex they were (next to war walkers) one of the most popular and consistent performers with their BS4. They remain just as good, having only lost 2 points on strength and made a couple of small gains. If you really don't believe Wraithlords are resilient at T8, i've not any idea what you're on about. The point I was attempting to make is that a falcon can, and routinely does get felled to a single shot. Against a wraithlord, it'll take a minimum 3 shots to down him, and rolling more dice is always better.

Falcons are a terrible choice. By taking one, you're wasting a heavy support slot on something that is easily outclassed by the codex's dedicated transport.

Belly wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Belly wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

Yeah, and a Falcon can't be killed from a round of poison.

You can't just pull one example, and treat as fact. There are a lot of factors into looking into both of them being resilient.

Very true, falcons also have to worry about Meltas, krak missiles, lance weapons, railguns, plasmaguns, and any sort of powerfist/powerclaw. Wraithlords on the other hand need to worry about all those weapons out there that ignore toughness. With the huge amount of Dark Eldar and Kroot Snipers running around, I certainly see your point.

And Wraithlords don't have to worry about those weapons as well? There is a reason no one has taken Wraithlords. I'll give you a hint, it's because they are not resilient at all.

Yeah, Don't forget Deathmarks, rangers. You've also got all those weapons you've mentioned, where Wraithlords tend to be just as vulnerable to as well.

That's not even counting the melee poison.

Wraithlords have, and will continue to be taken by Eldar players. In the previous codex they were (next to war walkers) one of the most popular and consistent performers with their BS4. They remain just as good, having only lost 2 points on strength and made a couple of small gains. If you really don't believe Wraithlords are resilient at T8, i've not any idea what you're on about. The point I was attempting to make is that a falcon can, and routinely does get felled to a single shot. Against a wraithlord, it'll take a minimum 3 shots to down him, and rolling more dice is always better.

Falcons are a terrible choice. By taking one, you're wasting a heavy support slot on something that is easily outclassed by the codex's dedicated transport.

Wraithlords have almost NEVER been taken by competitive players, in tournaments. And if they, they haven't placed. in 4th Edition, which was the last Eldar codex, Falcons were taken solely as the HS choice. In 5th Edition, this changed to Warwalkers/Fire Prisms, as mech was king. Wraithlords may have been seen in friendly games, but not in any serious tournament list.

T8 and 3W is not that resilient, and is in fact very close to being equal to a falcon, with 3 HP. The big difference, is the Falcon can almost always maintain a 4+ cover save, while the Wraithlord will be limited to a 5+ most of the time.

Yes, Falcons have a chance to get blown up by one shot, but they are actually quite a bit more resilient to some weapons, thanks to the 4+ cover save, than Wraithlords. Krakmissles are a good example of this, with an average volly taking off only a single hullpoint of a Falcon, while doing 2W to a wraithlord. The Wraithlord is also vulnerable to more types of weapons, than Falcons.

I also never said I would take Falcons, did I? If you would have read my position on the Heavy support slot, you would know that I am for Fire Prisms, and have included them in the list I wrote.

Why flamers instead of their faux-rending weapons?

Wow, this escalated quickly. Calm down dude, no need to go all alpha nerd.

No, I did not read your position on the heavy support slot, it's not in this thread.

A valid point that wraithlords are not taken by competitive players. Falcons arn't either, at least not since 4th edition (apparently). Infact, no competitive players have had Eldar for quite some time now... I'll now change my position and recommend that the OP sells all his eldar models and starts a necron/csm army. Seriously, Wraithlords are terrible. Get some nightscythes, wraiths and helldrakes. Thats the optimum choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
Why flamers instead of their faux-rending weapons?

Put simply, the catapults will always be a 2nd choice to whatever the main weapons are. Flamers are useful against mobs, and you should be able to use them for at least 4 hits (what you'd get if all the catapult shots hit home). Ontop of that, D3 overwatch hits from the flamers.

Wow, this escalated quickly. Calm down dude, no need to go all alpha nerd.

Ah, personal attacks now. That will help support your position for sure.

A valid point that wraithlords are not taken by competitive players. Falcons arn't either, at least not since 4th edition (apparently). Infact, no competitive players have had Eldar for quite some time now... I'll now change my position and recommend that the OP sells all his eldar models and starts a necron/csm army. Seriously, Wraithlords are terrible. Get some nightscythes, wraiths and helldrakes. Thats the optimum choice.

Wraithlords are terrible. I'm glad you see that now.

Friendly advice and sarcasm, in equal measures.

Belly wrote:
Friendly advice and sarcasm, in equal measures.

You can feel free to back up your position with facts, instead of sarcasm and personal attacks then.

Otherwise, there is no reason to take you or your position seriously.

 Sasori wrote:

Belly wrote:
Friendly advice and sarcasm, in equal measures.

You can feel free to back up your position with facts, instead of sarcasm and personal attacks then.

Otherwise, there is no reason to take you or your position seriously.

My position; was a selection of advice specifically answering the OP's question. Based on actual experience, about how to arm a wraithlord. That's in this thread, you can scroll up and read that.

Alpha nerd is hardly a personal attack unless you let it be. You're on the internet arguing with some dude on the other side of the planet, about some plastic models you've painted yourself. Wear that with pride, I would.

The sarcasm stands, that wasn't directed at you, but more the cavalcade on fondue that seems to exist on dakka.

Put it this way, wraithlord has three wounds, falcon has 3 hull points. Lascannons wound Wraithlords and glance falcons on 3s, the falcon however will have a constant 4+ cover save if do it correctly.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
Why flamers instead of their faux-rending weapons?

The range is nearly the same (flame templates are 9" long if I remember correctly) and there have been plenty of time I have taken Wraithlords and people forget that they have flamers and it costs them dearly. Also 2D3 wall of death hits from overwatch.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Put it this way, wraithlord has three wounds, falcon has 3 hull points. Lascannons wound Wraithlords and glance falcons on 3s, the falcon however will have a constant 4+ cover save if do it correctly.

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
Why flamers instead of their faux-rending weapons?

The range is nearly the same (flame templates are 9" long if I remember correctly) and there have been plenty of time I have taken Wraithlords and people forget that they have flamers and it costs them dearly. Also 2D3 wall of death hits from overwatch.

I'd actually argue that there is something being missed by this argument of falcon vs wl survivability. A falcon at 1 HP has to wait for the end to come essentially. A 1W WL can be hidden from enemy firepower in close combat with things that cannot hope to bring it down; like marines. It's going to win most challenges there too and can insta-gib 3W SM characters. That is a pretty significant boost to survivability.

Some peoe just hate WLs and swear by tanks. Others are the opposite. It is a matter of personal preference largely. A good point was made that if you really want only optimal choices then C:E may be the wrong codex for you.

 warpspider89 wrote:
I'd actually argue that there is something being missed by this argument of falcon vs wl survivability. A falcon at 1 HP has to wait for the end to come essentially. A 1W WL can be hidden from enemy firepower in close combat with things that cannot hope to bring it down; like marines. It's going to win most challenges there too and can insta-gib 3W SM characters. That is a pretty significant boost to survivability.

Not really? Space Marines have Krak Grenades, which they can use freely on Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures. All the SM player has to do is refuse your Challenge and then throw a ton of S6 attacks at you. And that's assuming there isn't a Power Axe laying around somewhere.

Weaker things than SM get to benefit from Our Weapons Are Useless, which may be worth risking in order to bring down the Wraithlord via shooting.

 warpspider89 wrote:
Some peoe just hate WLs and swear by tanks. Others are the opposite. It is a matter of personal preference largely.

Eh, most people make bad choices from a competitive stand point. They're wanting the "cool" option instead of the "good" option. Then because the thing "mostly works" they wrongly think its "good".

Wraithlords can be gross (and fun), but generally speaking their are better options available, especially in the Heavy Support slot, that will help your army out more frequently, consistently, and reliably. That's why you largely didn't see them taken to tournaments in 4E and 5E. Shoot, you didn't see them that much in 3E from what I recall, but then I only went to a few local tournaments back then.

We'll see what comes in 6E. I think its more likely to see a Wraithlord than a Wraithknight in a tournament. The Wraithknight is a bad joke.

cowmonaut wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
I'd actually argue that there is something being missed by this argument of falcon vs wl survivability. A falcon at 1 HP has to wait for the end to come essentially. A 1W WL can be hidden from enemy firepower in close combat with things that cannot hope to bring it down; like marines. It's going to win most challenges there too and can insta-gib 3W SM characters. That is a pretty significant boost to survivability.

Not really? Space Marines have Krak Grenades, which they can use freely on Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures. All the SM player has to do is refuse your Challenge and then throw a ton of S6 attacks at you. And that's assuming there isn't a Power Axe laying around somewhere.

Weaker things than SM get to benefit from Our Weapons Are Useless, which may be worth risking in order to bring down the Wraithlord via

A ton? You can only use one grenade/model/turn in combat lol and those grenades hit on a 4+, wound on a 6+, and are ignored on a 3+. Since the character just denied that means a whole 9 are getting thrown by a tac squad, if the WL somehow failed to kill any with its shooting and HoW, which is highly unlikely. Power weapons are, like in the example case, generally one he sergeant - who you just described as denying th challenge. So much for that. And! Lets say that this squad does use "our weapons are useless". They use that in the assault phase. That means the Eldar player just was given exactly what he/she/it wanted AND you just gave them free movement from a d6 of consolidation. Good job setting the WL up for more easy kills and another easy hiding. Now that is falling for Eldar trickery.