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Now the voidraven isn't the best plane out there, but contrary t popular opinion I've found it to be OK as anti air/anti tank specifically.

The primary complaint most people have is its survivability, yet the survivability of the Helldrake is talked up massively, the only difference being one point of armour. Sure the Voidraven is less survivable but so much as to be unplayable? It still has AV11 and a 5++ save. Am I missing something?

The Voidraven does seem pretty decent if you tool it up with night shields and flickerfields for the 5+ invuln and increase to range. 2 strength 9 ap 2 lances is not to be sneezed at for anti tank and flier duty as you said.

I think the reason the Heldrake gets so much love is because it has av 12 and 5+ invuln like you said, but also because of IWND and the baleflamer.

A Strength 6, ap3 flamer with torrent which can fire 360 degrees because it is turret mounted while moving 18" a turn is something that anyone not in terminator armour has nightmares about.

I am yet to run into one but I am sure my time will come!

Yeah the damage output of the drake is higher, its a better plane for its points no doubt. That's why I wanted to only talk about survivability as that is what often gets levelled as a problem for the voidraven rather than lack of firepower.

It still has AV11

That's the rub right there. At AV11, it can be glanced by bolters/small arms fire. Even with the 5++ you're still going to take damage because in most cases almost everything on the field can shoot at it. That one extra AV point on the Drake really does make a huge difference.

Tycho wrote:

It still has AV11

That's the rub right there. At AV11, it can be glanced by bolters/small arms fire. Even with the 5++ you're still going to take damage because in most cases almost everything on the field can shoot at it. That one extra AV point on the Drake really does make a huge difference.

No it can't. Str 5 min to glance AV 11.

Tycho wrote:

It still has AV11

That's the rub right there. At AV11, it can be glanced by bolters/small arms fire. Even with the 5++ you're still going to take damage because in most cases almost everything on the field can shoot at it. That one extra AV point on the Drake really does make a huge difference.

Well, AV11 can't be glanced by Bolters but I see your point, I think if you take multiples of them (Probably 2 is suffice so you can get a Ravager on the field) then they will be a lot harder to remove them both and they do have a decent damage output, not just for AA but also for heavy tank hunting.

I do like the Voidraven, but I also like the Razorwing and in this ever shifting 40k meta towards infantry, the Razorwing does seem like the better choice, it is less survivable but can be more versatile and is more useful in TAC.

I think the voidraven is a good choice for AA, but it's not a must have. And taking multiples should help to solve the survivability issue.

Both of the DE flyers are really good. Bordering on awesome. They each do their job very well when you use them to kill what they are supposed to kill.

The only way they seem less is when you compare them to the uber awesomeness of the Heldrake and Vendetta. Two flyers that hopefully never get cloned again into any other codex.

My biggest bitch about the Void Raven is that they haven't released a model for it yet, even though its been said that the damn thing has been completed for over a year. Its supposed to be awesome looking.

I've been using my Night wings as Void ravens, but I know that's not an option for everyone.

Drager wrote:
Now the voidraven isn't the best plane out there, but contrary t popular opinion I've found it to be OK as anti air/anti tank specifically.

The primary complaint most people have is its survivability, yet the survivability of the Helldrake is talked up massively, the only difference being one point of armour. Sure the Voidraven is less survivable but so much as to be unplayable? It still has AV11 and a 5++ save. Am I missing something?

The helldrake has AV12, IWND and three hull points
The VR has AV11 and two hull points.

Voidraven has 3 HP, just like the Razorwing. The Forgeworld Nightwing for eldar is the only one that has 2 HP.

Most of the problem with the voidraven is the lack of missiles. Yes, you can get them, but 20 point more is starting to build up the cost. The razorwing gets the missiles for free. If the Voidraven came with 2 missiles, it would probably be taken over the Razorwing.

Also there is the pretty meh AT ability of two lascannons. Vendetta has 3, and they are TL on a more durable platform for less points. Without vector dancer (who knows why), the DE fliers are no more maneuverable than the vendetta (less so without hover) and are simply worse in every category. Razorwing's missiles are the only thing that allow it to have any role where the voidraven....

 Exergy wrote:

Drager wrote:
Now the voidraven isn't the best plane out there, but contrary t popular opinion I've found it to be OK as anti air/anti tank specifically.

The primary complaint most people have is its survivability, yet the survivability of the Helldrake is talked up massively, the only difference being one point of armour. Sure the Voidraven is less survivable but so much as to be unplayable? It still has AV11 and a 5++ save. Am I missing something?

The helldrake has AV12, IWND and three hull points
The VR has AV11 and two hull points.

I am not claiming it is as survivable as the Helldrake, it isn't, but it is more survivable than a lot of planes due to the 5++.

Also it has 3 Hull Points, where does this idea that it has 2 come from? I've heard it a few times.

With regards to hull point loss as compared to a none jinking flyer with no invuln (like the storm raven or Vendetta if they want to fire at BS)

Against Star 5-6 it is less survivable than AV 12
Against Str 7 it is as survivable as AV 12
Against Str 8+ it is more survivable than AV 12

Sure its not as good as a vendetta, but a vendetta is not a good ally option for DE, so that doesn't compete for the void ravens place.

 zephoid wrote:
Voidraven has 3 HP, just like the Razorwing. The Forgeworld Nightwing for eldar is the only one that has 2 HP.

Most of the problem with the voidraven is the lack of missiles. Yes, you can get them, but 20 point more is starting to build up the cost. The razorwing gets the missiles for free. If the Voidraven came with 2 missiles, it would probably be taken over the Razorwing.

Also there is the pretty meh AT ability of two lascannons. Vendetta has 3, and they are TL on a more durable platform for less points. Without vector dancer (who knows why), the DE fliers are no more maneuverable than the vendetta (less so without hover) and are simply worse in every category. Razorwing's missiles are the only thing that allow it to have any role where the voidraven....

I seriously thought they had only 2.

Voidravens and Razorwings really should have vectordancer

Void Weapons should be AP1

that would make them good, but not great.