Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey dakka, got a tournament coming up that looks like it might just work for Flash Gitz.

1000 points, no forgeworld or fliers, no multiples of non-troops units, less force org slots (-2T, -1E/F/H), bonus points for fluffy armies, uncompetitive armies, and conversions or scratch builds, and a generally non-competitive atmosphere.

Not looking to stomp face, just wondering if it's possible to make Flash Gitz less than totally crap in an environment like this. Was thinking an all Nob list or Nobs and Grots

Also general gitz discussion thread.

Flash gitz main issue (ignoring costs here) is orky BS with low-amount of shots and crap range. Without a painboy its a total of 20 shots at S6 AP D6-1 if you fully upgrade them. On average you'll land ~8 of them, and if you dont roll good enough on the AP you wont kill much.

They arent even that durable and have no dedicated transport available. Ive fielded them a couple times and both times i got to fire them once before getting wiped off the table, even when i took a battlewagon to try and protect them longer.

Goddamnit, they're just so cool though.

Maybe I'll just have to be content with fluffing my Lootas as Freebootas instead

I think they will still work, and there is really no other way to see than to try them out. They are a heavy support choice. If you treat them like a tank, and run them like a tank, they will be more durable than most tanks and probably cause more destruction than a tank.

Thats how I always looked at them at least. I dont have any in my army, but if they make a decent model for it, I may go for it. I'm all for converting ork vehicles, but havent gotten in to converting the units as much quite yet.

All their shots ignore cover (including any shots with a quad gun). Ammo runs also help here.
Attach a Warphead for utter random madness (especially when they teleport).

If i take flash gitz i take them with a weirdboy and hope for 'ere we go, worked both the times ive used em.

I'm running a campaign at the moment, and am looking for an easy way to make Flash Gitz less gak since I'm free to deviate from the normal rules. Ideally through giving them a USR, since the veterancy we're using allows this anyway.

Was thinking perhaps Preferred Enermy (everything!). Run it with Blasta Snazzguns and now no more overheat

I know it's offtopic but could you give some details of this campaing? I love ideas like this with story of the war and so. I'd play something simillar but i don't know any1 willing to play such thing. Also how does Badruk handle? Is he good?

I played against Flash Gitz with my Chaos once, and to be honest, they did very little in the actual game. They took a single wound off one of my Obliterators after about 3 turns of shooting, and I just ended up ignoring them for the whole game. You really have to know what's the best targets when it comes to these guys due to their unreliable Ap value. Basically, I wouldn't bother with them but I'm sure more experienced Ork players could have a degree of success, but I suppose it's equally down to getting a good Ap roll as well as player skill.

Flash git's are expencive, but would be fine if it were not for the fact that loota's exist.

IF you want the flashgit feel, then Make a full unit of loota's, then have a mega-armoured warboss join them. With his slow and purposefull on the squad, they can move and shoot, and you can dress them up to look flashy and gitty

And he can tank Helldrake!

Flash Gitz are really just Nobs that ignore cover for 5 points more. They would be awesome if you could put them in a drop pod.
I don't use them because there are still better options, like Lootas - which from my understanding are getting nerfed - but we probably don't have to worry about that for 2 more years.

I love them but they just cost too dang much to really make themselves useful. In a friendly game or a narrative campaign go for it, in any game where you want to win you need to bring 100% excellent units in this edition.

lets see they allready ignore cover due the new GIt finda Faq.
as for a killteam or camp as you talk about rending / twin linked sound like a good idea

Because Flash Gitz are Heavy Support you have to compare them to the other Heavy Support (Battlewagon, Big Gunz). Snazzguns are awesome but with only 24" range if you camp your opponent can just avoid. If the Kill Team Game allows for Heavy Support, most only allow Elites and/or Troops. Last they shoot like Orks BS 2 you need to take at least More Dakka (now 30pts each) for a single shot Str 5 that you can reroll. Or for the same price you can take 2 lootas (elite) with twice the range and at their worst take 2 shots str 7 - at their best 6 shots.

Theyre insanely dumb. GW only added Ignores Cover to try to get people to use them. Even with an awesome rule like that they still suck, which shows how bad they are lol.

A fully decked out Flash Git group with Badrukk runs over 600pts easily. A bikernob missile with 5 nobz and warboss is 515pts with 1 pk/3bigchoppa/5 kombi scorcha (1 on boss 4 on nobz) and causes WAY more damage and doesnt waste a heavy slot for kannons or battlewagons.

I cant even think of a way to balance them out. More range is about it but unless it went to Loota-equiv range it wouldnt be much help, and 48" or more with ignore cover of any strength is pretty nasty. More damage makes no sense since theyre not anti-vehicle. Making them cheaper would require the loss of Nob stats, which would make them even squishier. If all the upgrades were stock, 25pts per model would be crazy good...i think i'd put it borderline broken though

Nah we've already got a long range shooty unit or five, what we need is a short range shooty unit.

What I've done in my campaign is I have given them the Sniper and Twin Linked USR. This unit is like my "flagship" unit for my army and as such is able to earn EXP from battles and trade it in for USR of my choice. From Sniper they get precision shots, rending, and pinning, and from twin linked they effectively get 33% more 'shots'. Have yet to try them out but I reckon even Gitz will be good with those bonuses added on

if you want a short range shooty unit, maybe they should be merged with Stormboyz so they have the mobility/deepstrike capability.

Actually not a bad idea...

If you can level them, I guess they aren't that bad of a unit. Since they are jacks of all trades, you could even start adding close combat abilities at some point.

The whole problem is simply that they don't get enough shots. If you can twin-link them, or allow them to reroll wounds somehow, you could offset that whole problem. Also make sure to take Badrukk - while he costs as much as three gits, he also does as much damage as three of them. Plus you get to field a cool pirate ork.

However, I agree with Vineheart, nob bikers are probably a much better choice - and their Dakkaguns are almost as good as fully upgraded Snazguns.

In their current form, there are so many other (much better) options. I've made several Army List that include them - I have yet to see them actually do something other than soak damage. I've run Mad Dok with them so I can take the full 10 + Badrukk and give the rest of my army Cybork.

I agree that the Ignores Cover is wasted on the Snazzgun - if Defguns had ignores cover (or even the option) - I would never make a list without them. If Rockit Launcha had ignores cover, my Defdreads would always be armed with them. Instead the snazzgun gets them for a unit that if they are very lucky will get to shoot twice in a game. The only time I've ever shot with them is when the game has gone 6 rounds and they are still on the board or not engaged in Melee. I don't know why but Termagants, just love to bum rush Flash Gitz.

I started a thread in Proposed Rules, that talks about Making the Flash Gitz Useful

nothing is as good as Flashgits at being Flashgits my Ork buddy told me that a while ago. he always runs a unit and they always do fairly well. I think what he means is that you can't treat them like any other Ork unit. They are not the most forgiving unit in the book and you have to have an army that they fit into. unlike so much of the Ork book you can't just toss em in and run with it.

Ive ran flash gits a few times and they did pretty well.In one instance while playing a DA force I was able to kill 4 of a 5 man tac squad with a low AP roll and ignore cover..the DA player spent the next two turns focusing my minimum group of gitz down and they still managed to kill off the remaining marine and his librarian.He was quite surprised that the Ork Codex even had nobs that could use weapons like that.

Anyhow ,yes they are expensive but lets look at what you get in camparison to a regular Nob.
Base Nob has 2 wounds paper armor and Choppa Slugga with 3 attackes--20 pts Elite choice
Base Flash Git has 2 wounds,Eavy armor,snazzgun which in its base form is waaaay better than a slugga and of course 3 base attacks in CC---25 pts Heavy choice

Now to me that looks like a pretty good value for what really amounts to a "shooty Nob" with better survival.The biggest drawback is that theres no dedicated transport and its a Heavy support slot which there are so many other good choices.

I think in the format you are running I would certainly put some in the list and have some fun with em!

Again they are not elites, so you can't compare them to nobs.
But let's really compare them.
Nobs can become bikkers
same armor sav, same invulnerable save and same FNP

the Pain Boy bikker gets to shoot a Dakkagun.
Bikers move twice as far.
Dakkaguns Twin Linked 18" Str 5 AP5 Assault 3
Snazzgun 24" Str 5 Ap d6 Assault 1 Ignores Cover

If I had my choice, I would always say Bikker.
Then there's the real comparison without bikes
Gitz's Pain Boy cost 5 points more and 5+ Invulnerable save is just like a regular save. The weapons are -1 str, but they can take a Battlewagon and Defrolla for less than fielding Flash Gitz. don't get me started on the range and melee options. even with 'Evy Armor they are still cheaper.

I know some have had Lots of glorious luck with them and somehow me charging them forward to try to get into range is the wrong tactic. I have Fielded them about 9 times with 6th and all 9 times they have not once helped my army (nor have I had Fun with 'em) and I always think there goes 575pts leaving me, to face the enemy, with a 1275pt army instead. I always think I should have just taken another Battlewagon instead. Even in games I happen to win, I still think I could have had 2 Battlewagons with Defrolla and still armed the Ork Boy Nobs all with PK.

Tbh, I'd rank Vanilla, no gear Nobs on par with Flash Gitz for overall crappiness. They're a boy that costs 3.33x more for like +20% fightiness. This extends to Flash Gitz as 'shooty nobs", costing far more than shoota boys for only a modest hike in firepower.

Minijack wrote:
Ive ran flash gits a few times and they did pretty well.In one instance while playing a DA force I was able to kill 4 of a 5 man tac squad with a low AP roll and ignore cover..the DA player spent the next two turns focusing my minimum group of gitz down and they still managed to kill off the remaining marine and his librarian.He was quite surprised that the Ork Codex even had nobs that could use weapons like that.

Anyhow ,yes they are expensive but lets look at what you get in camparison to a regular Nob.
Base Nob has 2 wounds paper armor and Choppa Slugga with 3 attackes--20 pts Elite choice
Base Flash Git has 2 wounds,Eavy armor,snazzgun which in its base form is waaaay better than a slugga and of course 3 base attacks in CC---25 pts Heavy choice

Now to me that looks like a pretty good value for what really amounts to a "shooty Nob" with better survival.The biggest drawback is that theres no dedicated transport and its a Heavy support slot which there are so many other good choices.

I think in the format you are running I would certainly put some in the list and have some fun with em!

That's like saying slugga boyz are better than lootaz because slugga boyz do better in close combat. Besides, a snaz gun isn't really "waaay" better than lhe slugga. It just gains +1S and a random chance to break armor. I'd argue that a shoota is just as good, if not better, than a basic snazgun.

If you do the math, your "shooty nobz" are outshot by both lootaz and a boyz, point for point. If you ignore range and just look at stuff killed per points, even gretchin are better than flash gits.

Fielding a unit because you like it is a valid reason all by itself. Just don't argue that your army won't be better without them though.

Minijack wrote:
Ive ran flash gits a few times and they did pretty well.In one instance while playing a DA force I was able to kill 4 of a 5 man tac squad with a low AP roll and ignore cover..the DA player spent the next two turns focusing my minimum group of gitz down and they still managed to kill off the remaining marine and his librarian.He was quite surprised that the Ork Codex even had nobs that could use weapons like that.

I'm surprised that even in a friendly game that DA player would allow any units to get that close (especially their Librarian) to your Flash Gitz. Without just pounding them first. Also I admire you ability to get that many 5's, and that many wounds (4's or better) and you opponent got that many 1's (5 marines, plus the Librarian) , cause the snazzgun doesn't ignore armor. Again does being extremely lucky in a game make them worth taking.

Would it surprise you if I said I tabled on the first turn Space Wolves with just 2 units of 15 Lootas and a Big Mek with a SAG? Yes it happened but not normally. A Typical game my Lootas are targeted with everything they have (usually end up running for the hills) and my SAG usually deviates hitting nothing. Do I still take Lootas, yes it's because they have a big target on them - It allows for Battlewagons or Bikes, to get right to them. Otherwise they target my bikes and my Lootas rain fire upon them. Flash Gitz can be completely ignored for the first 2 turns and then something might be in range, but if your opponent is cleaver, they can wipe out your entire force Before your Flash Gitz need to be worried about and then any 36" range weapon will take them out in a Frustrated Flash Gitz haze.

I want to like Flash Gitz. Fluff wise they are very cool. In 5E there was absolutely no way to love them rule wise. They were complete garbage.

Now? Better, but still bad.

Being Orkz, you need a high volume of shots so the More Dakka! upgrade is mandatory and you need as many as you can take. So you are looking at 300 points easy right there. Painboy is worth considering for FNP, but cybork bodies is a dumb trap to fall for. Ammo Runts and Grot Orderlies are traps of course, so avoid those.

So this unit is already massively expensive and it has an equally massive weakness: no mobility. This is the same problem that Tankbustas have, except they are far cheaper and have higher strength weapons. You have to eat up a second Heavy Support slot to give them a Battle Wagon or Looted Wagon as a transport, or you need to have them embark someone else's Trukk on the first turn.

You can probably use Flash Gitz, but they are highly un-competitive. They are just too inefficient. On the plus side, Ignores Cover makes them remotely useful for a "for fun" list. But when you can take 50+ Boyz for the same point cost...

I think i agree an equal point cost amount of boys will beat them out almost every time. but when you think about it most of our codex follows this rule. I think 180 boys should be the foundation of all list...

The thing is, certain units offer things that boys do not. Lootas have long range and can hurt tanks. Bikers are fast. Nobs can take 2+ power klaws.

What do Flash Gits give us? Some very unreliable anti Terminator shooting. Shooting that arguably, even when you roll AP 2, is less powerful than the same points of boys

can anyone imagine how horrible a time it would be if orks had access to tau Pathfinders?