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I am a SoB and IG player, however I'm curious on other's opinions on a "Deathstar" like command squad. I know with IG it's all about "Power in numbers" but I think it'd work rather well.

CCS 50pts
Col Straken 95pts
Nork Deddog 110pts
Medi-pac 30pts
x2 Plasma Guns 30pts
Ministorum Priest w/Evicerator 60pts
Commisar Yarrick 185pts

Valkyrie w/Lascannon

675 points is a LOT for a Command Squad, but hear me out. On top of Straken, Nork, and Yarrick's ridiculous stats, here are the rules for this Specific squad

Senior Officer
Counter-Attack
Furious Charge
Feels No Pain
Re-Roll "To Hits" on Assault (Yarrick)
Re-Roll "To Hits" on Assault (Priest)

If this is a dumb idea, please give me some insight. On paper, I could see this working out really well for a 2000 pt game or higher. At 1850 pt I'd take out Yarrick.

This also goes with the Fluff of my army (Armageddon Prime). And Straken taking the leash of his old Commander's bodyguard (Nork) is so fluffy i love it.

That could get pasted by units half its points.

Also you omitted points costs for the commander's weapons.

Could you explain?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The commander is a special character, comes with his own

Costs more than 50 guardsmen, 5 power ax, azrael, and a libby for prescience.

I think you'd be better off with Uriah Jacobus, personally. He costs half as much and gives +1 attack, FNP, and lets you reroll close combat attacks when you charge. While he doesn't give ATSKNF, Ld10 stubborn is pretty reliable.

The troops aren't exactly great (*wince*), but the cost savings for your HQ is significant. Azrael is a better fit for a primary DA army, I think.

For that many points I'd rather have a bunch of terminators in a crusader, with points to spare most likely. Of course thats marines, but point is, I dont think this is worth that many points. The special characters many have decent stats, but ones like nork come at a ridiculous price. Regardless, independant of price, I wouldn't exactly call it a deathstar.

For something like straken, I'd take just the CCS & him and perhaps a couple of flamers and carapace armour. Medi pack could be useful but it costs too much IMO. Then alongside these I'd be taking guard blobs like schadenfreude suggested with a commissar as well. So then you could have upwards of 100 guardsmen with furious charge and counter attack. Take chenkov as well, run a conscript screen out the front with 'send in the next wave' and when they die, relegate them to home objectives. (Never actually tried this myself but its probably what I'd do if I was to try this style.)

 schadenfreude wrote:
Costs more than 50 guardsmen, 5 power ax, azrael, and a libby for prescience.

This will do so much better than all those characters and upgrades.

1) plasma guns are not assault weapons so you cant fire them and assault. your better off with flamers to put wounds or get melta guns incase walkers come by because s6 will only glance front av12 armor.

2) average toughness is 3 which means s6+ will insta kill these guys and basically your medi-pac is useless, yarrick is the only eteranl one iirc.

3) Also when these guys drop from a valkyrie theres a good chance they will scatter off and die, I would not risk an expensive unit like this, also note that when they do come out of any guard transport they will be sitting ducks for a turn.

4) small arms fire actually could destroy this squad the turn it comes in.

5) I dont consider this to great because I believe a termie squad or an actual death star, abaddon or daemon princes would just still eat this squad alive. A well placed vindicator round would probably kill this squad outright in a turn.

Alright, thanks tankboy. Like I said, it looks good on paper, and I knew there were issues, but I get it now. Thanks.

Not a problem, thats why it doesnt hurt to post the ideas on here

And I appreciate how you gave information on what I had instead of "That's dumb. YOU NEED CONSCRIPTS!!!!!" *cough cough*

So, 675 points for a command squad... and the rest of your army will consist of what?

P.S. don't post individual points costs.

Rerolls don't stack, for one thing; there's also the problem of what do you do when someone drops a single high-Strength template on your eight-model squad? You can't really do much more than grumble and pull the models off the table if something with a battle canon decides it doesn't like the way Col. Straken is looking at it.

Try this for an IG melee "deathstar":
565 points
6 Ogryn (IG)
Yarrik (IG)
Jacobs (SoB)

Put Yarrik out in front and troll people as they have to reroll all successful to wound rolls against T5, don't forget to LoS onto the ogryn with all S9 and below wounds (the ogryn will be ID by S10). Furious charge and FnP from Jacobs make this unit a semi decent threat against most enemies. I won't say it is competitive but it is good enough and is super fun. (ie will always do something every game and not just get removed turn 1)

Please note that this Deathstar can kill a 5 man TH/SS assault termi squad (also note this unit costs almost 3 times as much as them but it does give a stubborn Ld10 bubble around it).

It isn't a true deathstar, but I have worked on IG close combat concepts before and toyed with the idea of making a close combat IG list (with no allies).

I think IG have a lot of hidden strengths in regards to melee in 6th. First of all, you need to look at your units. Five man squads are just right out as the front line, but as follow up units, they can work. A standard and regimental standard are pretty much must haves and CCS and PCS squads can be equipped with a CCW+Laspistol for that needed extra +1 attack and +1 scoring. These units, plus upgrades (like a Priest, Commissar, and Bodyguards) can give you a follow up attack that simply overwhelms your foes. This means your core units should be Platoon Infantry Squads (PIS), blobbed up as a 20-30 man unit that can absorb fire and still deliver on a charge or defend a charge with lasgun rounds. I feel two squads fully upgraded (you can't afford to skimp on this) can do some damage. As for upgrades, we are talking Power Axes and melta bombs on every sergeant, at least one Commissar with a Power Axe, a Ministorum Priest with an Chain fist, and a Tech Priest with a Power Axe. Special weapons should be meltas or flamers, and heavy weapons are optional because your snap-firing them as you move. Two 30 man squads rolling up a field can be something folks do not want to deal with. Follow them up with a Close Combat PCS and a Close Combat CCS with body guards, bannder, and maybe Straken (to keep them all in his bubble) and they can do some damage. First turn, the PCSs and Straken should issue 'Move!x3' to get them up the field as fast as possible. You want to take as little fire as possible or even hope they fire on your HWSs (or ignore the HWSs so they can cover your advance). Personally, I would like to have Creed (with a standard) in a second CCS with some heavy weapons squads in the rear holding objectives. Creed's 24" range should hopefully be enough to be able to issue 'For Cadia!' x4 times for that finial push to make your IG str 4 and Power Axes Str 5 for your charge to actually make them somewhat effective.

Combine with this some Ogryns and Rough Riders(with Melta guns and a Melta bomb) to either form a screen or push flanks as your infantry moves up. I will point out Ogryns are Infantry, so Creed can outflank them for a nasty surprise to your opponent! Or outflank a couple of Vendettas with SWSs (2x flamers and a demo charge or 3x Melta guns) to disrupt the enemy lines.

The strengths of a list like this are a ton of power axe attacks in melee, lots of meatshield guardsmen to soak up wounds, and so many characters to make challenges a joke. It honestly makes me want to make a naked sergeant to go with every blob just to watch some nasty melee character waste everything on a single guardman, but the melta bombs and power axe are still cheaper than any Power Fist and will ignore Terminator armor to make them a threat if they get their attacks off.

The drawbacks are many... humans with human statlines and 5+ armor are your biggest hurdle to over-come. This is the 3 WS, 3 Str, 3 T that true melee units drool over to fight. Their Leadership can be fragile as well so you have to take care of it. Commissars and Priests that allow re-rolls help a lot (as do regimental standards to avoid the execution because you can only do one re-roll per dice, as stated above). Then of course, you have to get there. 'Move!x3' helps this a lot, but it isn't a Ork Battlewagon or Land Raider. Then you also have to worry about counter charges... if they charge you first, you could lose your +1 Str from Creed and re-rolls from the Priest and that important +1 additional attack for charging that you need. Your not winning with quality, your winning with quantity.

Can it work? Maybe... but it is something you can't dabble with. You need to go all out and do it or don't bother doing it at all. Hey, everyone thought mech was dead too... maybe melee can surprise enough folk to get wins.

Good luck either way and don't give up if you want to do it... it is a game after all. Have fun!