Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I know that everyone with Bretonnians always says Trebuchets everywhere for tourney lists, but I don't have any of those models and they are now $75 on GW website. for an upcoming 2800 Tourney here is my list.

263 Lord w/ Lance, Virtue of Heroism, Grail, shield, Antlers of the great hunt, Gromgril Great Helm
286 Prophetess w/ lvl 4, Barded Warhorse, The Silver Mirror, Lore of Life
115 Lvl 2 Damsel w/ Lore of Beasts, Potion Sacre, warhorse
135 lvl 2 Damsel w/ Lore of Beasts, Dispel Scroll, warhorse
156 Paladin w/ BSB, Horse, War Banner, Grail, Virtue of Duty, Shield, Lance
146 Paladin w/ Horse, Shield, Grail, Lance, Falcon Horn of Fredemun
146 Paladin w/ Horse, Shield, Grail, Lance of Artorias, horse
165 3x Pegasus Knights w/ Gallant
422 9x Grail Knights w/ Full command, Valorous Standard
312 12x Knights of the Realm w/ Full command
312 12x Knights of the Realm w/ Full command
341 15x Knights Errant w/ Full command, Errantry Banner
125 20x Peasent Bowman w/ braziers

Any Suggestions on this one at all?

Holy cow is this list ever hard to read. Use line spacing to seperate your Lords / Heroes / Core / Special / Rare

I would also recomend using that sort of break down.


Anyway onto the list itself. I would trim down the Lord to the "Classic" Build. Since the FAQ dropped you can take a magic weapon with Virtue of Heroism, so take advantage of that. Lord- Barded Warhorse, Shield, Virtue of Heroism, Sword of Swift Slaying, Gromril Great Helm, Potion of Foolhardiness: Its a bit cheaper than what you are running, and quite frankly a bit scarier as well. ASF HKB w/ a 1+ re-rolling armour save is absolutely terrifying.

On another note, your BSB is illegal. You are not allowed to take mundane equipment on him. Only Magical Equipement- and you cannot even take that if you take a magic banner. Put the Warbanner on some Knights of the Realm. Remember that they can carry a magic banner, and the Warbanner is only 25 points in the Bret army book. As for the BSB himself, just focus on survivability. Sword of Might, Charmed Shield, Dawnstone is a very popular build to get a 2+ rerolling save and some solid cc. You can also swap to biting blade + enchanted shield to get a 1+ re-rolling save at the expense of some combat power.

I think you are way too heavily invested in Paladins anyway. Grail Vow is expensive, and is only really helping you against Ethereal enemies anyway. The Falcon Horn is stupidly expensive for what it actually does, and the Lance of Artois really needs to be combined with Virtue of the Joust to milk the most out of that KB on the charge. What I would consider though is a Virtue of the Impetuous Knight Paladin. That can really help catapult a squad into a charge, and take your opponent by suprise. As a general rule, be careful buying lances and magical lances for your Paladins. Bretonnians don't really have much trouble ON the charge, its off the charge that we really start struggling. Having your Heroes and Lords being able to provide consistant damage, ala things like the Sword of Might, or a Great Weapon, etc. Are much more valuable to the army as a whole.

You have a Prophetess and 2 Damsels, which is solid for sure. I would considr running one of those lvl 2s with Life. That way you can roll the lvl 2 first, and keep everything but Dwellers and Throne. that way you greatly increase the odds of your Prophetess getting both. Double Scroll is excellent, but I don't really like the Potion Sacre. The Chalice of Malfuer is a pretty good way to get more Dispel Dice which is nice, and if you run life magic on its bearer you can heal any farts with lifebloom. Another worthy consideration is the Feedback Scroll which pairs well with the Silver Mirror for mage sniping. Finally, the Prayer Icon is one of the best magic items in the game, a Horde of 50 Men at Arms with a level 2 of beasts and the Prayer Icon is an excellent unit.

Grail Knights should really look into the Banner of Defense. You are sinking 400+ points into this squad, being able to tick their Blessing save up to a 4++ against high strength magic and war machines can be hugely helpful.

Bowmen look fine, but I think 20 is an akward number for them. Its not quite enough bodies for them to form a makeshift combat block, and its not quite cheap enough to be a true chaff drop. I would split them down to 2 squads of 10 and use them as deployment fodder. That also gives you 2 fences which are awesome. The other Option is to cobble together 40 Peasant Archers and stick a Prayer Icon damsel into them, That way you get a unit which can provide some dakka, and have a passable close combat from them in the form of ranks and the Ward Save from the Blessing. But if you go this route you might be better off with 50 Men at Arms under the Prayer Icon.

Thanks for all the help here. Sorry on the list setup I will modify it this time after I work up the modified list. As far as a couple of the tips go.

The Banner of Defense didn't seem worth it to me on the fact that I was going to have the prophetess riding with the Grail knight wall which gives them MR (2). That would mean a 3++ save against all magic means although I guess that would make it a 2++ with the banner. Man that is dirty and I love it.

I didn't read the BSB paladin right and your correct he is completely illegal atm.I'm swaying towards the biting blade w/ enchanted shield, dawnstone setup and drop the grail vow to help give that unit a wall of survivable characters in the front line. The main reason my Paladins all had grail vow is I thought it was required to join units of grail knights? Also think I should Impetous knight vow my BSB? Or you think that is to much of a waste?

As far as my Damsels / Prophetess go. Where should I stick my beasts damsel in this list in your opinion? The Prophetess will be riding with the Grail knights of course, but should I just throw the beast Damsel in with a squad of knights errants and pray they don't go impetous on me? Or just have a damsel each in the KotR squads?

Banner of Defense isn't 4+ ward vs all magic, it's 4+ ward vs magic missiles.
MR would bump that to MR2 vs magic missiles.
You don't take it for the magic defense, you take it for the shooting defense. It lets the unit survive a warplightning cannon hit.

2800 points is a big game to show up with only 4 units and 2 support units.

As for characters:
8 wizard levels is about 2 too many.
I'd cheapen up the heroes a bit.
I'd split 1 Knights of the Realm into 2 units of 6 to use clearing caff away. Use points saved for another small unit of knights.
That should leave you with 3 big lances, 3 small knight units, pegs and bows.
It will give you something to protect your flanks with.

So are you recommending dropping the beasts damsel or dropping the life one? I like the idea of breaking the KotR unit. It would give me some protecting power. Would you Full comand the broken squads or just keep the gallant since i have to take him?

Just to post some staples for lists, take of it what you may.

One thing many Bret players run are the 3 1+rerollable characters. This is achieved via Gromril Great Helm, Dawnstone+Enchanted Shield, and Luckstone+Dragon Helm. The luckstone goes on the non BSB paladin.

This gives you one of 2 things, a major durability boost for one knight unit, or a minor durability boost for 3. (Depending on your positioning.)

Another is the level 4. A lot of people go with the silver mirror, and a warhorse on lore of heavens. This is because she provides the knights who have a ward innately, with MR3, so against spells like Searing doom, which can ruin a unit, they gain a 4+ ward. And a first scroll.

Next up you have the level 1 beasts, more often than not, she just has a scroll and a warhorse. She also rides in a unit. Lore of beasts is a good spell for her, as S4/T4 knights are amazing.

Corewise, most people run the megalance, or 3 small lances. The prospect of the megalance is that it goes in, and destroys whatever it faces. The 3 small lances go into a single unit and demolish it.

Minimal archer blocks are a good add due to 5 point upgrades that remove regen.

Then you have units of 5 Knights of the Realm. These guys are chaff drops/hunters. These guys take a gallant and a musician for swift reforms.

A unit or 2 of mounted yeomen can go a long way in helping secure a solid deployment, as well as redirect in the late game.

Finally, 2 trebuchets. These are literally one of the best choices in the book. Because they're a 90 point stone thrower.

I think your Lances are a bit big, Cut them down to help with more lances. The magic number for me has be 12 models in the unit. So 11 KOTR + 1 character, or 10 KTOR + 2 Characters. This will free up a few more points for smaller units, at 2800 points you are going to want around 10 units. Hard to do with Brets, I am almost not sure what point the 20 block of archers is there for? It will not take down much, and as Anti-chaff it is two big. Split it, give you two chances, If you do not kill something with one, you can always try again, but if you do you can target another. Or just take them out and put in more knights. Also one of the KOTR should have flaming banner to deal with Aboms/Hydras and anthing else with Regen. Also Drop Grail from any character not going into grail knights, saves on points. You also might want to look into a crown of command. Also The Banner of the Lady, got put back to a great banner with the Latest FAQ. For a army that needs to break units to win it comes in handy.

I am guessing you are going with something like after the advice of others.

Lord, BSB and LVL 4 in Grail,
2x6 KOTR
2x10 RTR + Paladin and Damsel
1x12 KE
1x3 Peg
2x10 bowmen

I did highly consider the banner of the lady on my BSB honestly. Other than that don't know if I need flaming banner. The archers have braziers just to plink monsters with regen so forget that save. I am going to run around that size on unit formations now. I could just lvl 1 signature spell the beasts damsel. It would be useful.

icefire78 wrote:
So are you recommending dropping the beasts damsel or dropping the life one? I like the idea of breaking the KotR unit. It would give me some protecting power. Would you Full comand the broken squads or just keep the gallant since i have to take him?

Don't drop either damsal. Drop the extra wizard levels. Make both level 2's level 1's.
-Matt

kk I wasn't sure never used life or beasts lore before


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lords:
268 Lord w/ Lance, Virtue of Heroism, Shield , horse, Sword of Swift Slaying, Gromgril Greathelm, Potion of Foolhardiness
286 Prophetess w/ lvl 4, Barded Warhorse, The Silver Mirror, Lore of Life

Heroes:
100 Lvl 1 Damsel w/ Lore of beasts, Chalice of Malefleur, Warhorse
105 LVL 1 Damsel w/ Lore of Life, Dispel Scroll, Warhorse
105 Paladin W/ BSB, Biting Blade, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone
151 Paladin w/ Lance, Warhorse, Shield, Grail vow, Virtue of impetous knight, Dragonhelm, Luckstone
160 Paladin w/ Lance, Shield, Virtue of Duty, Shrieking blade,warhorse

Special:
165 3x Pegasus Knights w/ Gallant

Rare:
402 9x Grail Knights w/ Full Command, Banner of Defence

Core:
341 15x Knights Errant w/ Full command, Errantry Banner
168 6x Knights of the Realm w/ Full command
168 6x Knights of the Realm w/ Full command
337 12x Knights of the Realm w/ Full command, War banner
65 10x Bowmen w/ Braziers
65 10x Bowmen w/ Braziers

This puts me at 2886 what should I cut to make this a 2800 point list?

The major problem in this list is the lack of LD 10. LD 9 with a reroll is still quite dicey. The way around this is the standard of discipline, in the Bretonnian Lord's unit.

As for what you can cut, you can drop a knight off each of the chaff units. They'll do the same job, but be 48 points cheaper.

And I'd say drop the non rerollable paladin for a trebuchet

Sad to say don't own any trebuchet models and wholly dislike the ones that GW makes. So until I figure out a way to get around that no Trebuchets for me. Thats what I was thinking as well for dropping the chaff group

icefire78 wrote:
Sad to say don't own any trebuchet models and wholly dislike the ones that GW makes. So until I figure out a way to get around that no Trebuchets for me. Thats what I was thinking as well for dropping the chaff group

Have you looked at the LOTR ones? Most people I know use those, and they really are worth including in the army.

Put the chalice on a life wizard. Its an awesome item but you will roll a 1 every now and again. Being able to cure that with lifebloom is great. So do some magic swapping.

To save points i wod cut down on your heroes. Drop grail vow and put the impetusous paladin in the errants, that extra charge dice could save you on a bad impetuous test, and I would drop your duty paladin entirely.

You don't really need pallies in your gks. They already hit like a ton of bricks and will have a wizard in them. Putting more charachters has diminishing returns and makes them more of a target. I would put your dudes in kotr to make them more threatening.

Then I would try to squueze in a banner of discipline for leadership 10