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Another recent thread brought this thought to mind. It's been roughly 10,000 years since the Fallen were routed from Caliban and scattered across the galaxy. The Dark Angels have records of *all* Fallen from that time, meaning they have to account for every single Marine that turned traitor from that time.

10,000 years is a long time. There are going to be Fallen that have died of old age where they've been outside of the Warp's influence for too long, despite getting that influence early on. Others still may have died in battle or accidentally on other worlds, where they're no longer "active" and thus, not leaving any fresh breadcrumbs to trail them by. Yet more will have died inside the Eye of Terror - where the Dark Angels will not be able to hunt for them.

Surely this means that the Dark Angels can't possibly confirm every last single Fallen? Without DNA-checking every single skeleton's dental records they come across, that is.

Yep, it's most likely futile. The DA will never stop being steered by their need to hunt down all Fallen, and they'll continue killing off any allies they suspect of suspecting them.

Grimdark.

The Angels of Absolution feel that they're absolved of that, at least! Maybe someday the rest of the Dark Angels and their successors too can stop whining about something that happened 10,000 years ago and routinely happens today anyways unless your chapter are the Grey Knights (Marines falling to Chaos)

Well, for what it's worth, I recall the Lion is prophesized to give them their absolution, finally.

He wanted them to stop already, but unfortunately the warrior pidgeon he sent with the message got lost in the warp.

As far as "Dying of Old Age" is concerned, it has never been confirmed that this can even be a cause of death for a space marine, there are marines still living that are confirmed to have fought at the side of their primarch during the great crusade (Dante).

 Brokksamson wrote:
As far as "Dying of Old Age" is concerned, it has never been confirmed that this can even be a cause of death for a space marine, there are marines still living that are confirmed to have fought at the side of their primarch during the great crusade (Dante).

Dante never fought in the Great Crusade, unless there is some new source of fluff that I'm not aware of. He is at least 1,100 years old, but he isn't old enough to have fought in the Great Crusade. The only loyalist warrior from that time still living that we know of is Bjorn, and that's only because he is in a dreadnought. They don't die of old age because the violent life they lead inevitably catches up with them.

Dante has been a chapter master for 1,100 years, and generally you have to have at least two centuries under the belt to even be considered for the post, with three being the norm. Logan's also been Great Wolf for about seven hundred years.

As for the Fallen, sheer attrition has likely whittled down actual survivors of the Horus Heresy amongst them to the point that finding any of them is like trying to locate a needle in the middle of the breadbowl.

There's a separate thread on the age thing, but to sum up... Dante's the oldest living Space Marine whose lifespan isn't extended beyond its normal means... and that's ignoring the fact he's a Blood Angel. It's mentioned in the Codex that he knows even his life's end is closing in and that he's growing tired.
Also, Blood Angels are known for their longevity compared to other Chapters - that wouldn't be a factor at all if Marines dying of old age were unheard of.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Maybe someday the rest of the Dark Angels and their successors too can stop whining about something that happened 10,000 years ago

Unless the Dark Angels actually are the ones who went traitor, and the "Fallen" were the loyal ones...that'd be a pretty big secret, and worth killing all the "Fallen" for, eh?

 greyknight12 wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
Maybe someday the rest of the Dark Angels and their successors too can stop whining about something that happened 10,000 years ago

Unless the Dark Angels actually are the ones who went traitor, and the "Fallen" were the loyal ones...that'd be a pretty big secret, and worth killing all the "Fallen" for, eh?

While this is a really cool conspiracy, the evidence just doesn't back it up. The Dark Angels have fought too many battles for the Imperium since the Heresy to be considered anything but loyal.

Darthslowe wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
Maybe someday the rest of the Dark Angels and their successors too can stop whining about something that happened 10,000 years ago

Unless the Dark Angels actually are the ones who went traitor, and the "Fallen" were the loyal ones...that'd be a pretty big secret, and worth killing all the "Fallen" for, eh?

While this is a really cool conspiracy, the evidence just doesn't back it up. The Dark Angels have fought too many battles for the Imperium since the Heresy to be considered anything but loyal.

Unless its "all as planned" style stuff, they also snuffed out a group of Black Templars for no reason other than to protect their secret.

Hm, not sure who I read that about then, thought it was Dante. I know Bjorn fought was Russ, he's a Dreadnought now but he's not a corpse, brain is still alive, still has his own memories.

2x210 wrote:

Darthslowe wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
Maybe someday the rest of the Dark Angels and their successors too can stop whining about something that happened 10,000 years ago

Unless the Dark Angels actually are the ones who went traitor, and the "Fallen" were the loyal ones...that'd be a pretty big secret, and worth killing all the "Fallen" for, eh?

While this is a really cool conspiracy, the evidence just doesn't back it up. The Dark Angels have fought too many battles for the Imperium since the Heresy to be considered anything but loyal.

Unless its "all as planned" style stuff, they also snuffed out a group of Black Templars for no reason other than to protect their secret.

Stop thinking too hard, you'll turn into an Alpha legionary. They are loyal, otherwise the entire codex is a lie.

Abaddon is well over 10,000 years old, so it wouldn't be too OOT to assume other chaos influenced Fallen that haven't.... fallen in battle would still be alive.

But The Dark Angels will be hunting the Fallen forever. There is no way they could hunt down every single Fallen. The Galaxy is just too big.

 Iur_tae_mont wrote:
Abaddon is well over 10,000 years old

Abaddon has been in the warp for much of that time, though. And time is different in the warp.

Don't forget about the watchers. They are supposed to be powerful psykers aren't they? Maybe they can sense if a fallen they die and inform the da or something?

 Sword Of Caliban wrote:
Don't forget about the watchers. They are supposed to be powerful psykers aren't they? Maybe they can sense if a fallen they die and inform the da or something?

While possible, we're also told that the Watchers don't communicate directly. There'd have to be some other way for them to let the Dark Angels know. Maybe they skritch out the names in Ezekiel's book when he's not looking...?

The thing that is being over looked here is that it was stated that the Fallen were scattered in space and TIME. So there could be Fallen in the 43, 45, 52 etc millenia. This means the Hunt will never end. Also there is no reason that some Fallen could have been sent backwards in time, which means that the hunt would be further complicated.

JWhex wrote:
The thing that is being over looked here is that it was stated that the Fallen were scattered in space and TIME. So there could be Fallen in the 43, 45, 52 etc millenia. This means the Hunt will never end. Also there is no reason that some Fallen could have been sent backwards in time, which means that the hunt would be further complicated.

I was going to say exactly this.

However does that mean that there could be fallen who were sent into the past?

 Dmyze wrote:

JWhex wrote:
The thing that is being over looked here is that it was stated that the Fallen were scattered in space and TIME. So there could be Fallen in the 43, 45, 52 etc millenia. This means the Hunt will never end. Also there is no reason that some Fallen could have been sent backwards in time, which means that the hunt would be further complicated.

I was going to say exactly this.

However does that mean that there could be fallen who were sent into the past?

Certainly possible that some of the major events we've had in the 20th Century have just been the plots of the Fallen?

I am pretty sure I read somewhere that space marines cannot die of old age. However due to what they do, they will all eventually die some horrible violent death. Kinda ironic really.

BlackSanguinor wrote:
I am pretty sure I read somewhere that space marines cannot die of old age. However due to what they do, they will all eventually die some horrible violent death. Kinda ironic really.

I'm afraid this is nothing more than conjecture on other people's part... unless it's in a hilariously wrong BL book somewhere. As I mentioned, there are references to Dante and other Blood Angels outliving the normal life span of a Marine. That's a definite reference to age, since they still see plenty of dangerous mortal action...

Old is not an issue, what if a few of the fallen are apothecaries? they can just make new "fallen" maybe some of the fallen have turned to chaos and if one of those suceeded to become a Demon prince, well DA have to banish him/it every few hundred years.

BlackSanguinor wrote:
I am pretty sure I read somewhere that space marines cannot die of old age. However due to what they do, they will all eventually die some horrible violent death. Kinda ironic really.

If marines could not die of old age, by the year 40k there would have accumulated a large number of very ancient marines. Acccording to background material in the early codex books, each chapter has "supernumerary" marines that assist the the chapter master. These are marines that have retired from combat and have titles like "Master of the Watch", Master of the Armory", "Master of the Fleet".

They are obviously not getting killed in combat and if they were immortal there should be some that are several thousand years old. Since Dante is the oldest living marine we know that these "old timer" semi-retired marines are dying from old age because I doubt a marine would commit suicide due to his obligations of duty and they certainly are not being executed.

So, no, marines are not immortal, they age and will die if not killed in combat or by misadventure.

Once the first Fallen Angel died, it became an impossible task.

It's, as most people said, an impossible task. They're spread over time and space, therefore VERY hard to capture. Who knows, a few could have been sent to our time in that universe.

 greyknight12 wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
Maybe someday the rest of the Dark Angels and their successors too can stop whining about something that happened 10,000 years ago

Unless the Dark Angels actually are the ones who went traitor, and the "Fallen" were the loyal ones...that'd be a pretty big secret, and worth killing all the "Fallen" for, eh?

Oh, and:

What's the deal with BT fleet MiA ??? Is there anywhere more info about that....???

On B&C bickering started as soon as that fluff piece appeared


And Luther was a badass....

 Super Ready wrote:

BlackSanguinor wrote:
I am pretty sure I read somewhere that space marines cannot die of old age. However due to what they do, they will all eventually die some horrible violent death. Kinda ironic really.

I'm afraid this is nothing more than conjecture on other people's part... unless it's in a hilariously wrong BL book somewhere. As I mentioned, there are references to Dante and other Blood Angels outliving the normal life span of a Marine. That's a definite reference to age, since they still see plenty of dangerous mortal action...

In Horus Rising it is theorized by an in-character comment that a space marine could possibly be functionally immortal if they aren't worn down by wear and tear, like all space marines are. Keep in mind at that the time, the oldest living space marine wouldn't have even been 300 years old so it's fairly safe to say that they really didn't have the information at the time to know for sure.

 DarthMarko wrote:
What's the deal with BT fleet MiA ??? Is there anywhere more info about that....???

Basically, it seems that the BT fleet that went missing was holding a Fallen DA captive. The DA's demanded they hand him over and the Templars being massively outgunned complied. The DA's then left, but nothing has been heard from that ship, so it seems that the Dark Angel's probably destroyed they to protect their secret.

 Castiel wrote:

 DarthMarko wrote:
What's the deal with BT fleet MiA ??? Is there anywhere more info about that....???

Basically, it seems that the BT fleet that went missing was holding a Fallen DA captive. The DA's demanded they hand him over and the Templars being massively outgunned complied. The DA's then left, but nothing has been heard from that ship, so it seems that the Dark Angel's probably destroyed they to protect their secret.

Yeah I know that - but juicy bits "how" and "whaaaat" are mssing...I want more,mooooooreeee...Story about Templars and Angels clashing would make my life so happy...