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Does anyone else think that this would be a great addition to the codex? TFCs are already excellent, and I'm not suggesting an additional shell option, but rather a different weapon altogether. Something on the order of:

Str 7 AP5 Heavy 6 Range 60"* Skyfire Interceptor
*= easily debated. I think low(ish) strength poor ap and many shots go along with the other TFC line of thought, and I want it at least str 7, but I don't want it to be just an autocannon. Honestly I am a bit concerned with it being maybe a bit too powerful because with the high # of shots, range, and interceptor it will pretty much kill the first flyer to come on board if it has line of sight. However for 100 points and it only has one job, it better do it damn well.

 Lotus wrote:
However for 100 points and it only has one job, it better do it damn well.

But it doesn't have just one job. With that gun it's also very good against vehicles and reasonably effective against infantry.

 Lotus wrote:
Does anyone else think that this would be a great addition to the codex? TFCs are already excellent, and I'm not suggesting an additional shell option, but rather a different weapon altogether. Something on the order of:

Str 7 AP5 Heavy 6 Range 60"* Skyfire Interceptor
*= easily debated. I think low strength high ap and many shots go along with the other TFC line of thought, and I want it at least str 7, but I don't want it to be just an autocannon. Honestly I am a bit concerned with it being maybe a bit too powerful because with the high # of shots, range, and interceptor it will pretty much kill the first flyer to come on board if it has line of sight. However for 100 points and it only has one job, it better do it damn well.

4(5 men) Flakk Havocs or Flakk Devistators costs 175 pts. 5 guys, T4 3+ saves. They get 4 shots at 48" range.
Now this is 6 shots, 60" range. It gets intercerpotr(flakk only have skyfire) and is T7 and has a guy with a 2+ save.

Im sorry that is way too powerful.

The Standard TFC is Heavy 3, I thought. Why is this one Heavy 6?

Standard TFC is Heavy 4.

 Exergy wrote:

 Lotus wrote:
Does anyone else think that this would be a great addition to the codex? TFCs are already excellent, and I'm not suggesting an additional shell option, but rather a different weapon altogether. Something on the order of:

Str 7 AP5 Heavy 6 Range 60"* Skyfire Interceptor
*= easily debated. I think low strength high ap and many shots go along with the other TFC line of thought, and I want it at least str 7, but I don't want it to be just an autocannon. Honestly I am a bit concerned with it being maybe a bit too powerful because with the high # of shots, range, and interceptor it will pretty much kill the first flyer to come on board if it has line of sight. However for 100 points and it only has one job, it better do it damn well.

4(5 men) Flakk Havocs or Flakk Devistators costs 175 pts. 5 guys, T4 3+ saves. They get 4 shots at 48" range.
Now this is 6 shots, 60" range. It gets intercerpotr(flakk only have skyfire) and is T7 and has a guy with a 2+ save.

Im sorry that is way too powerful.

That is because flakk missile are god awful. If they were free the flakk devastator squads would still be too expensive and crumby against flyers.

Compare this to a quad-gun, sabre, or hyperios missile platform, and you will see that 100 points isn't too bad.

I'd suggest changing to heavy 4, like the reg. thunderfire.

You want to balance that at 100 points?

Take away Interceptor. That way it really will only have the one job you want it to be able to do, because it'll be snapfiring at everything else.

Given the nature of the Thunderfire, however, I'd say something like this is more appropriate:

RNG 60" S7 AP- Heavy 1, Flak Burst*

*Flak Burst: The Skythunder Cannon is designed to blast enemy aircraft out of the sky. It is fired in exactly the same manner as a Large Blast weapon. Any Flyer, Flying Monstrous Creature or Fast Skimmer partially or wholly under the template is hit. While this ignores the usual rules for Fliers and Blast Weapons, a Flak Burst weapon cannot harm infantry (or any variety of infantry), Monstrous Creatures (Except Flying Monstrous Creatures), or Vehicles (except Flyers and Fast Skimmers).

That Flak burst rule is nice, though I think it should be an apocalypse blast and it should stay on the board until the start of your next turn.

This would make it a slightly tactical weapon... Why? As a player could fire it before a flier is even on the board, making it a good obstacle for your opponents flier, if the flier turns up that is. The flier would either then go around it, or risk flying through it.

The offsets of this? It cannot fire at ground targets, ever and then the real kick, you can only fire it once every two turns as it takes so long to reload it or some other excuse....

Flak burst is also pretty realistic. The lethal radius of real life flak cannons was actually significantly greater than the famous black cloud. Sure if a plane was directly caught in the black cloud it was utterly screwed, but the invisible shrapnel and concussive wave went out quite a bit further and would still crumple and shred a plane, or even multiple planes if they bunched up too much.

The sight of the sky filling with countless flak clouds is one of the most distinctive and oddly beautiful things a pilot can see.

I like the idea of a lingering flak cloud or whatever.

However it depends how 'realistically' the aircraft are being portrayed. With the shift from abstractism to "true line of sight" and stuff like that, I think we're meant to believe that there are literally as many as 18 aircraft doing cartwheels in the air about twenty feet off of the ground above an area the size of a rugby field... in which case a large blast would be 'realistic' to the same degree.

I honestly like making my flier stands really tall, especially for things like Marauder bombers or Ork bommerz.

I really do like that flakk blast rule, except flyers don't group up so it really just alters the chances for rolling to hit. How about this:

No interceptor.
Anti-Air Shells:
Str 8, AP -, Range: 60" Heavy 4, Skyfire
Anti-Tank Shells:
Str 8, AP-, Range: 60" Heavy 4

The boost in Str might make it a bit too much, but now it's just a dedicated anti-vehicle platform to complement the dedicated anti-infantry platform that is the other TFC. Maybe it can be an upgrade from the original TFC for like +15 points or so, that way a new model isn't necessary. It's anti-vehicle mode would still be outclassed by an Auto/Las Predator, but that Anti-Air ability would be great, making it a sub-par choice for anti-ground-vehicle and the only reason to take it over a different choice would be for the Anti-Air (and it wouldn't even be good versus FMC).

Why on earth would a weapon that is so strong and able to penetrate vehicle armor not be able to auto penetrate 4+/5+ armor saves on infantry? Let alone power armor?

I understand the basis of your rules to make it an anti vehicle version, it just doesn't compute that they would auto splat a guardsman because it might bounce of his flak armor, no pun intended.

The whole point of Flak Burst is that it's easier to hit an aircraft with a big boom than a little bullet. It's not about hitting multiple targets, it's about having a higher chance of hitting one target - you get a whole five inches of chance to hit instead of a one in six chance.

 Lotus wrote:
I really do like that flakk blast rule, except flyers don't group up so it really just alters the chances for rolling to hit. How about this:

No interceptor.
Anti-Air Shells:
Str 8, AP -, Range: 60" Heavy 4, Skyfire
Anti-Tank Shells:
Str 8, AP-, Range: 60" Heavy 4

The boost in Str might make it a bit too much, but now it's just a dedicated anti-vehicle platform to complement the dedicated anti-infantry platform that is the other TFC. Maybe it can be an upgrade from the original TFC for like +15 points or so, that way a new model isn't necessary. It's anti-vehicle mode would still be outclassed by an Auto/Las Predator, but that Anti-Air ability would be great, making it a sub-par choice for anti-ground-vehicle and the only reason to take it over a different choice would be for the Anti-Air (and it wouldn't even be good versus FMC).

Clearly you've never met blight drones. Spammable little fliers and a major pain in the butt with how tough and cheap they are.

 Carnage43 wrote:
Standard TFC is Heavy 4.

 Exergy wrote:

 Lotus wrote:
Does anyone else think that this would be a great addition to the codex? TFCs are already excellent, and I'm not suggesting an additional shell option, but rather a different weapon altogether. Something on the order of:

Str 7 AP5 Heavy 6 Range 60"* Skyfire Interceptor
*= easily debated. I think low strength high ap and many shots go along with the other TFC line of thought, and I want it at least str 7, but I don't want it to be just an autocannon. Honestly I am a bit concerned with it being maybe a bit too powerful because with the high # of shots, range, and interceptor it will pretty much kill the first flyer to come on board if it has line of sight. However for 100 points and it only has one job, it better do it damn well.

4(5 men) Flakk Havocs or Flakk Devistators costs 175 pts. 5 guys, T4 3+ saves. They get 4 shots at 48" range.
Now this is 6 shots, 60" range. It gets intercerpotr(flakk only have skyfire) and is T7 and has a guy with a 2+ save.

Im sorry that is way too powerful.

That is because flakk missile are god awful. If they were free the flakk devastator squads would still be too expensive and crumby against flyers.

Compare this to a quad-gun, sabre, or hyperios missile platform, and you will see that 100 points isn't too bad.

Flakk devistators are HS and spammable. Quad guns are limited 1 per army and you have to take a fortification first and man it with a model. The thunderfirecannon comes with a techmarine(~50 points) and is a HS choice so you can have 3 of them per force org.

I don't really think you can call 25 points for a missile launcher 'spammable'.

 Exergy wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:
Standard TFC is Heavy 4.

 Exergy wrote:

 Lotus wrote:
Does anyone else think that this would be a great addition to the codex? TFCs are already excellent, and I'm not suggesting an additional shell option, but rather a different weapon altogether. Something on the order of:

Str 7 AP5 Heavy 6 Range 60"* Skyfire Interceptor
*= easily debated. I think low strength high ap and many shots go along with the other TFC line of thought, and I want it at least str 7, but I don't want it to be just an autocannon. Honestly I am a bit concerned with it being maybe a bit too powerful because with the high # of shots, range, and interceptor it will pretty much kill the first flyer to come on board if it has line of sight. However for 100 points and it only has one job, it better do it damn well.

4(5 men) Flakk Havocs or Flakk Devistators costs 175 pts. 5 guys, T4 3+ saves. They get 4 shots at 48" range.
Now this is 6 shots, 60" range. It gets intercerpotr(flakk only have skyfire) and is T7 and has a guy with a 2+ save.

Im sorry that is way too powerful.

That is because flakk missile are god awful. If they were free the flakk devastator squads would still be too expensive and crumby against flyers.

Compare this to a quad-gun, sabre, or hyperios missile platform, and you will see that 100 points isn't too bad.

Flakk devistators are HS and spammable. Quad guns are limited 1 per army and you have to take a fortification first and man it with a model. The thunderfirecannon comes with a techmarine(~50 points) and is a HS choice so you can have 3 of them per force org.

Sentry guns with Hyperios launchers, Hyperios Missile batteries and Sabre defense platforms are all MASSIVELY better than a devastator squad with missile launchers. Not only are they generally cheaper per AA shot, they are usually more accurate (being twin-linked) and massively harder to kill at T6/T7. I could mention Storm Talons, Mortis Contemptors and/or Vendettas, but we both know those are also significantly better at AA than a flakk devastator squad.

Flakk devastators would be bad if flakk missiles were free. The fact they cost points is just insulting when there are options out there that don't suck.