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I see that they were improved in the new codex (less points, battle focus, etc.), but I stil don't see any practical use for them in a warhost. I was wondering how they are meant to be used (I am probably missing something really big here, so feel free to be blunt in your explanations).

Warp Spiders have been very good to me thus far. 6"+2d6 move, battle focus (and they have fleet too, so re-roll those low runs), then jump away 2d6.

What that all means is that Spiders average a 13" move, and can tack on up to another 6" before they shoot with 12" guns. After unloading with st 6 (7 vs. vehicles) with psuedo-rending, they jump an average of 7" away from danger. Play them right and premeasure well--they can lay down some serious hurt.

Off the top of my head they will work great against light-ish armour with monofilament weapons, can cover a decent distance and cause a lot of hell for lighter infantry. They're really quite versatile.

I'll let some other people comment cause I'd have to consult more than just my immediate memory lol

They are, plain and simple, amazing assassins. They enjoy a 50% efficiency ratio, pointswise, versus Riptides, and enjoy the mobility to catch said riptides/Dreadknights. Hardly any other unit in the game can boast that.

They tear through marines, terminators, MC's, bikes, even flyers (with guide) and light armor. Their bad matchups are light/medium infantry, flesh hounds, and the typical things MEQ fear. That said, they can really put the hurt on a lot of things, and aren't too expensive for doing so. I would probably deepstrike them in groups of 10 - their gun's range and battle focus makes them very flexible on the drop.

Like uberjoras said - they kill everything, and for not many points.

Their short-range guns really aren't that much of a limitation, because you expect to get about 16.5" of movement out of the unit before you have to shoot, and then you expect to be able to put an extra 7" between them and the thing they shot afterwards.

Per shot, their guns are 40% more effective vs T4 3+ than shuriken catapults. 75% more effective vs Riptides. A squad of 9 does as many damaging hits to AV10 as 3 scatter laser War Walkers, more of those hits are pens, and the Warp Spiders are cheaper /and/ more durable.

Every list with a substantial infantry or jetbike component should take Spiders. The only excuse not to have them is if the rest of your list is basically exclusively AV12 or T7+ such that the Spiders would be the only good target for a whole bunch of guns.

I'm really not convinced by Warp Spiders. Their pitiful range means they'll be shooting only in turn two, and forever be at the mercy of a bad jump roll or fast assaulters. t3 3+ no cover isn't exactly hard to kill either.

I think Warp Spiders rank up there with the WS as far as scary things to face.

If you really need to get a shot off, they have an expected effective range of 29.5" (you also achieve 29" or higher just about half the time). They also come with Hit and Run, so they're not a lost cause if they get assaulted. Once you're closer, you can opt to use their Run move after shooting instead of before, and in this case they expect to move about 11.5" after shooting.

I started playing when 5th edition came out and I always included at least one squad of five then and I still do so today. I always add the Exarch with spinneret rifle and fast shot. If I am playing 1k points and up I will include two squads equiped as I pointed out earlier. The battle focus gives a measure of deep strike insurance as I can now land 2-4 inches further away and use the battlefocus run with fleet re-roll to get into range if needed. Monofilament is great as a to wound roll of six is ap1 and you are strength 7 against units of initiative 3 or less. That wonderfull Exarch with the spinneret rifle and fast shot will shoot three shots out to 18 inches at strength 6 or 7 and it is always ap1, bonus is that as a character a 6 is a precision shot. They will not last too long so you have to choose carefully where you want to use them. I say you need to try them for a few games and see for yourself. They will not wina game on their own but they are soo versatile that they will certainly help get you there.

Khaine loves Spiders, so should you.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I'm really not convinced by Warp Spiders. Their pitiful range means they'll be shooting only in turn two, and forever be at the mercy of a bad jump roll or fast assaulters. t3 3+ no cover isn't exactly hard to kill either.

They move 6"+2D6" then another D6" (with a re-roll for Fleet) before they shoot which really helps get around the 12" range, and once you throw in the 2D6" jump back as well you don't have to worry about overcommitting them too much. You basically have to deploy as far away as you would for a normal infantry unit with 24" range weapons if you want to completely avoid them turn 1, which puts you pretty deep in your zone so its a pretty good trade for board position.

If you are going heavy on them (which is a perfectly viable build) then 30 guys with 3+ saves aren't going to die that fast, if you need it you should always be getting cover (you run and jump back into cover every time). People compare it to killing 30 Marines, which is obviously doable for most armies, but they forget that its 30 non scoring 3+ saves, if you are dumping that much torrent into the Spiders (which you kinda need to before they torrent you to death in return) then the Eldar scoring units are running around freely.

While they can still get caught out by a bad jump back move they still do far better than any Eldar unit save War Walkers against fast assaulters, you jump just inside 12", wipe everything in your kill range (so hopefully 14" or so away at this point) so it ends up being their 2D6" assault vs your 2D6" jump back + D6"(re-roll) run back + the couple of inches you got from wiping the front few models (+ possibly the same issue again with Overwatch fire). Not guaranteed, but the odds are definitely in your favour and they are way better off than Jetbikes or any of the standard infantry units (Avengers for example). Eldar don't actually have huge amounts of long range torrent fire, War Walkers obviously do but they a very fragile and Serpents have respectable damage output but their efficiency drops off terribly when you factor in the 65pt tax you need to get them.

I thought as jet pack units they could always move 12" in the assault phase? So they can deep strike in, move D6 re-rollable, shoot and then move 12" with their jump packs. Or am I mistaken?

the movement is
2d6+6 in the movement
1d6 rerollable in the shooting via battle focus and fleet
2d6 during the assault phase.

This is a 30.5" threat range with 12" guns. Also, if the 2d6+6 range puts you inside the threat of your guns, you can use the battle focus run to move you away. Therefore your move away is 1d6 rerollable+2d6. That is average 11.5" away after your ~10" fire (you want to extend the killing zone past 1 or 2 models). 20% of the time you will be within 18" charge range. I call that acceptable.

Ahh amazing. I plan to always DS them in to battle either behind a tank, a riptide, or close to one of the low initiative Tyranid monstrosities or similar type units. Is this what other people are doing?

Even when they had less movement potential with the last book I often deployed them. They're fast enough to get to shoot 1st or 2nd turn and there is no risk of coming on too late if they deploy. I usually DS when there is back field fire support I need to kill and I can't afford to try and navigate my way through/around the front lines.

 wilsjur wrote:
I see that they were improved in the new codex (less points, battle focus, etc.), but I stil don't see any practical use for them in a warhost. I was wondering how they are meant to be used (I am probably missing something really big here, so feel free to be blunt in your explanations).

I've actually been kind of thinking this myself. They're a great all-rounder unit, but they don't exactly plug a "niche".

Their versatility and movement are the reasons to take them. Short of Av14, they can be a legitimate threat to any unit on the board. With their ability to get AP1, at a S6-7 they can put the hurt on anything. At 19 points/model, with mobility that is eclipsed by only jetbikes.

I see their main strengths being their ability to threaten armour and MC's. With their mobility, they'll rarely have to shoot at front armour, and are great for putting those final 2 wounds into MC's.

And Flyers. They can kill flyers too, decently. Think of it this way, against vehicles, they basically have a 12' range Autocannon. And can move 17.5 inches before firing it.

The other benefit is their movement ignoring terrain. Find something impassible and act like you're a Tau player for a few turns

I think they kind of fill the same niche the guardian jetbikes do. They're a light quick flank harasser. I plan on using them in a WG foot list I'm planning, they'll help with the lack of overall speed and volume of fire. They'd also help a little with most flyers.

 Heezayy wrote:
Ahh amazing. I plan to always DS them in to battle either behind a tank, a riptide, or close to one of the low initiative Tyranid monstrosities or similar type units. Is this what other people are doing?

The Riptide will turn around and intercept you and drop a nice pie plate on your clumped up Spiders before you can battle focus run. Better hope he scatters.

I really don't see the niche for them in an Eldar list. Heavy front-line you have Scytheguard. Backfield you have War Walkers/ Reapers. Board Control you have Wraithknights/Wave Serpents. There aren't enough points to go round to WS in my lists.

I absolutely love them. I have used them a couple times as allies for my Tau and they are just so much fun. Jump-jump-dakka-jump-3+-repeat. I don't know if you saw the Dawn of war 2 intro

But the warp spiders play exactly like this. And of course pumping out a bunch of accurate high strength shots (even before pseudorends) they can do some serious damage.

I had an ally detachment just to use warp spiders, as a fast attack I feel they are one of the best and personally always try to jam at least a group of seven with exarch in whenever I take Eldar, I also feel they got better with the new codex.

I can't see myself taking less than two squads of ten. They're insanely mobile and their guns can take almost anything. They don't need an exarch or upgrades either so they're very cheap compared to a lot of choices in the codex.

 shamikebab wrote:
I can't see myself taking less than two squads of ten. They're insanely mobile and their guns can take almost anything. They don't need an exarch or upgrades either so they're very cheap compared to a lot of choices in the codex.

Yeah really! For only 190 points you get a lot of high-strength shooting with pseudo-rending. The Exarch is nice and all, but isn't even remotely necessary. His wargear is disappointing to me too. I want to use a Spinneret Rifle with Fast Shot because it provides some very nice shooting, but that also limits assault options because it is rapid fire. I think they're best cheap.

They do fill a niche role too. They shoot frighteningly hard and are mobile enough to act as a linking support unit between slow/static units. None of our other infantry shoot this well and can reposition quickly enough to rush over and protect a unit that need it (say, when enemy transports, outflankers or DSers arrive).

FYI people, if you are moving as with warp jump generator you are not moving as jetpack infantry an cant do the 2d6 move in assault phase. So unless its faqed, you can't do both.


My reasoning is based on the fact that there is an "or" with how they can move in the rules and if you don't move as jetpack infantry, then you can't do the jetpack jump raw.

 mortetvie wrote:
FYI people, if you are moving as with warp jump generator you are not moving as jetpack infantry an cant do the 2d6 move in assault phase. So unless its faqed, you can't do both.


My reasoning is based on the fact that there is an "or" with how they can move in the rules and if you don't move as jetpack infantry, then you can't do the jetpack jump raw.

I would say that's open to debate at the moment. The rules for the generators say:

"In the movement phase a model with a warp jump generator can choose to either move as jetpack infantry or make a warp jump. if making a wap jump it immediately moves "d6+6" in any direction ignoring all intervening terrain and models. (then there's the bit about dying)

it doesn't say that it forbids the standard jet pack assault move. It could do with an faq tbh.

I can't see the rulebook at the moment so I can't check the wording in there though?

Edit: Ok I found the rulebook, can't see anything forbidding jet pack units from moving in the movement phase and assault phase. The rule is only their for jump pack units?

 mortetvie wrote:
FYI people, if you are moving as with warp jump generator you are not moving as jetpack infantry an cant do the 2d6 move in assault phase. So unless its faqed, you can't do both.


My reasoning is based on the fact that there is an "or" with how they can move in the rules and if you don't move as jetpack infantry, then you can't do the jetpack jump raw.

I see it differently. The use of the phrase 'in the movement phase' indicates to me that you make this decision for the purposes of their movement. By the time assault phase rears it's head, you're back to being JetPack and it's time to pretend you're a Tau player...

BunnyCommando wrote:

 mortetvie wrote:
FYI people, if you are moving as with warp jump generator you are not moving as jetpack infantry an cant do the 2d6 move in assault phase. So unless its faqed, you can't do both.


My reasoning is based on the fact that there is an "or" with how they can move in the rules and if you don't move as jetpack infantry, then you can't do the jetpack jump raw.

I see it differently. The use of the phrase 'in the movement phase' indicates to me that you make this decision for the purposes of their movement. By the time assault phase rears it's head, you're back to being JetPack and it's time to pretend you're a Tau player...

If you are not moving as Jetpack infantry, you cannot use the Jetpack move. It appears you are choosing to move as Jetpack infantry for the turn or doing the Warp jump instead. Like I said, it will need an FAQ as its confusing. Best to just ask TO on how he will rule it or to discuss with opponent if not in tournament play. Regardless, Spiders still have insane movement and they are pretty good. I generally kill them ASAP so I hardly see what they can do and seldom use them as I assume my opponents will do the same. Still, pretty nice harassment/denial unit and in Scouring a good Scoring unit as well.

 mortetvie wrote:
FYI people, if you are moving as with warp jump generator you are not moving as jetpack infantry an cant do the 2d6 move in assault phase. So unless its faqed, you can't do both.


My reasoning is based on the fact that there is an "or" with how they can move in the rules and if you don't move as jetpack infantry, then you can't do the jetpack jump raw.

Warp Spiders can do a Thrust move regardless of how they moved in the movement phase or even if they didn't.

The jump generator makes them the unit type 'Jet Pack Infantry', which has no restrictions on using the thrust move in the assault phase (apart from the normal being locked in combat, charging and so on). The generator gives them an additional movement type in the movement phase, but doesn't modify the unit type or the other types of move it can do.

 mortetvie wrote:
If you are not moving as Jetpack infantry, you cannot use the Jetpack move. It appears you are choosing to move as Jetpack infantry for the turn or doing the Warp jump instead.

Except if you choose to walk with jetpack infantry in the movement phase (because of terrain or whatever reason) then you aren't moving as jetpack infantry, but you can still make the thrust move in the assault phase. It's the same thing; you can either choose to walk/hop, or warp jump/hop, and either way you still get to jetpack.

That's how I see it at least

Unless anyone can find somewhere where it says their unti type changes if they warp jump (how long does it change for? What does it change to?) then the way we're currently playing it is correct.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I'm really not convinced by Warp Spiders. Their pitiful range means they'll be shooting only in turn two, and forever be at the mercy of a bad jump roll or fast assaulters. t3 3+ no cover isn't exactly hard to kill either.

Turn two? 6+2D6 move+6" run +12" range is a pretty huge turn 1 threat range.