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I'm trying to decide weither to get Medusa or Vendettas for my Tallarn Imperial Guard, they both seem quite powerful. One obvious benefit of the Vendetta is being able to take down enemy aircraft, but I'm not sure how important that is as I have played a limited number of rounds against a very narrow selection of armies. (I'm new to this game.)

While the Medusa is pretty powerful for a relatively low cost, the Vendetta is very quick, can drop scoring units down at the last second to cheese your opponent off, can put holes into anything in the board and take some heavy bolters for chewing through hordes, and is very durable for a flier.

Not to mention that it's heinously undercosted for all it can do.

However, the Medusa and the Vendetta take up different slots so there's nothing besides points and money preventing you from having both.

Yeah, good points there. I'm building a 500-ish point list though, so "there can only be one."

 LordHamshire wrote:
Yeah, good points there. I'm building a 500-ish point list though, so "there can only be one."

In a 500 points game a lucky shot with that pieplate can wipe an entire squad off the table and few people will be able to do anything about it in such a small game. On the same token, at such a tiny level most people probably aren't that well equipped to deal with a vendetta.

AA is extremely important, and only gets more important as you move beyond 500 points and start playing normal games (at 1000-2000 points). The Vendetta is pretty much an auto-take, the only real reason not to have at least one is if you're deliberately weakening your own list so you don't crush an opponent who isn't very good and/or doesn't play a powerful list.

I'd go with the medusa. The medusa starts killing thinds turn 1, and isn't too shabby at snagging first blood. The vendetta arrives later and can be shot down by interceptor fire before it gets a chance to do anything.

The vendetta does have an advantage in being a multi-shot weapon, but then it also suffers from mobility problems (as in, can only rotate 90 degrees, must move at least 18", and is likely flying off the board at some point).

You do get to transport troops, but this is only SO good in that, while the vendetta will keep them pretty safe, when the vendetta DOES get destroyed, you're all but guaranteed to lose the entire squad inside, rather than losing half your models and still having guys who can hide in their own wreck.

There are also other fringe benefits to the medusa, like being able to ID T5 stuff, and not getting as many dirty looks as you would if you showed up to a 500 point game with a vendetta.

As for AA of your own, I wouldn't bother bringing anything special. Defensive weapons like meltaguns that you should already be bringing anyways will be enough. Once you land a hit, fliers explode just like any other vehicle. Plus, you can also just plain ignore most fliers, as their strategic impact isn't usually any more than a heavy support choice. A HS choice that doesn't get an alpha strike capability, among other drawbacks, to be precise.

 Ailaros wrote:

The vendetta does have an advantage in being a multi-shot weapon, but then it also suffers from mobility problems (as in, can only rotate 90 degrees, must move at least 18", and is likely flying off the board at some point).

It can go into hover mode, so if you've carved out a safe zone, pop that thing into hover mode and bang away.

I wouldn't assume that level of safety.

For example, every unit I field has the ability to shoot down an AV12 vehicle. You've got to table my army before you get the ability to hover without instant retribution.

At 500 points, a Medusa and a Vendetta are something of an outside context problem for most lists. It'd be like running into a Warlord class titan in a regular game, most people just don't expect firepower of that magnitude at such a small scale. The Medusa as Ailaros said, can start laying down fury and wrath immediately, while the Vendetta has to wait a bit. Also as most armies are mostly infantry in a game that small you can point at a big portion of someone's army and say "take that off the table."

Of course a S10 AP2 ordinance pieplate is very much capable of skullfething a vehicle.

BA guy here. Vendettas crush us, so you don't want to take the Vendetta.

Kidding aside, they serve very different roles. Don't forget that the Vendetta is priced like a dreadnought, so it can hover and be no worse off than dreadnoughts that marines field all the time. And its better armed. And carries guys.

 Ailaros wrote:
I wouldn't assume that level of safety.

For example, every unit I field has the ability to shoot down an AV12 vehicle. You've got to table my army before you get the ability to hover without instant retribution.

For many armies this is true, however often when facing an opponent like Eldar, Orks, many Space Marine lists, Tyranids, etc, it's not by any means impossible sometimes to clear enemy AT (or enough that it's a justifiable risk) on a side, at least for a little bit. I've done it several times. It's at least an option available, many armies still rely on being within that 24" sweet spot for the majority of their firepower.

OP, it's probably best to ignore Ailaros' comments on this subject. His position is that Vendettas are "easy mode" because they're so overpowered and is constantly playing devil's advocate to make them look bad and keep people from taking them.

 Ailaros wrote:
and not getting as many dirty looks as you would if you showed up to a 500 point game with a vendetta.

So how exactly is it that you think the Vendetta has so many flaws but is also so overpowered that you'll get dirty looks for taking one?

 Peregrine wrote:
OP, it's probably best to ignore Ailaros' comments on this subject. His position is that Vendettas are "easy mode" because they're so overpowered and is constantly playing devil's advocate to make them look bad and keep people from taking them.

 Ailaros wrote:
and not getting as many dirty looks as you would if you showed up to a 500 point game with a vendetta.

So how exactly is it that you think the Vendetta has so many flaws but is also so overpowered that you'll get dirty looks for taking one?

As I said, the two of you seem to have the cutest hatecrush for each other.

 Ailaros wrote:
I wouldn't assume that level of safety.

For example, every unit I field has the ability to shoot down an AV12 vehicle. You've got to table my army before you get the ability to hover without instant retribution.

So your solution is to recommend to the OP a vehicle with LESS armor, that doesn't get at least one guaranteed turn of shooting before it gets blown up, and has less range?

OP - The Vendetta is the all-around better buy. They give IG something it needs: maneuverability. At 500 points you won't have enough points for Chimeras. Points spent on a Medusa are points that you can't afford to spend. At 500 pts, most people can't deal with fliers. Most people can shut down an AV12 tank no problem, though.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
I wouldn't assume that level of safety.

For example, every unit I field has the ability to shoot down an AV12 vehicle. You've got to table my army before you get the ability to hover without instant retribution.

So your solution is to recommend to the OP a vehicle with LESS armor, that doesn't get at least one guaranteed turn of shooting before it gets blown up, and has less range?

OP - The Vendetta is the all-around better buy. They give IG something it needs: maneuverability. At 500 points you won't have enough points for Chimeras. Points spent on a Medusa are points that you can't afford to spend. At 500 pts, most people can't deal with fliers. Most people can shut down an AV12 tank no problem, though.

Doesn't the Medusa have a range of 48' and thus can hit pretty much any point of a 4x4 board?

 Kain wrote:
Doesn't the Medusa have a range of 48' and thus can hit pretty much any point of a 4x4 board?

Only if you take the small blast shells. If you want the large blast you're stuck with 36". Though I guess if you're playing on a smaller than usual table 36" might be enough for most situations. On a standard 6x4 table the Medusa's short range can be a big problem, especially since you need to keep it in cover if you want to shoot more than once with it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Doesn't the Medusa have a range of 48' and thus can hit pretty much any point of a 4x4 board?

Only if you take the small blast shells. If you want the large blast you're stuck with 36". Though I guess if you're playing on a smaller than usual table 36" might be enough for most situations. On a standard 6x4 table the Medusa's short range can be a big problem, especially since you need to keep it in cover if you want to shoot more than once with it.

Ah, I remember it had a bigger range than the LRD, so thanks for clearing that up.

Kain wrote:At 500 points, a Medusa and a Vendetta are something of an outside context problem for most lists. It'd be like running into a Warlord class titan in a regular game, most people just don't expect firepower of that magnitude at such a small scale.

I'd actually look at the other side of this.

It's possible that your opponents are going to be able to throw down some absurd stuff in a 500 point game, like some deathwing terminators, a leman russ, etc. The question is what weapon is the best to counter your opponent's OP unit that they're bringing to this points level.

In this case, I'd definitely take a medusa. A vendetta will eventually take down an MC better than a medusa (so, if you think you'll see a tervigon at 500 points, for example), but I'd take the medusa for most other mini-deathstar-at-500-points stuff.

 Ailaros wrote:

Kain wrote:At 500 points, a Medusa and a Vendetta are something of an outside context problem for most lists. It'd be like running into a Warlord class titan in a regular game, most people just don't expect firepower of that magnitude at such a small scale.

I'd actually look at the other side of this.

It's possible that your opponents are going to be able to throw down some absurd stuff in a 500 point game, like some deathwing terminators, a leman russ, etc. The question is what weapon is the best to counter your opponent's OP unit that they're bringing to this points level.

In this case, I'd definitely take a medusa. A vendetta will eventually take down an MC better than a medusa (so, if you think you'll see a tervigon at 500 points, for example), but I'd take the medusa for most other mini-deathstar-at-500-points stuff.

Unless the DW tremies show up NEXT to your Medusa, not even getting a chance to shoot them!

Well, you can castle.

Plus, you can set things up so that dropping next to a medusa means dropping next to 10 BS4 plasma guns. I'd gladly sacrifice a 135 point tank if it means bagging some 250+ points of terminators on the next turn.

And it would be better than taking a vendetta and giving those terminators up to two or three turns to completely destroy the rest of your army while you wait for air support.

 Ailaros wrote:
Plus, you can set things up so that dropping next to a medusa means dropping next to 10 BS4 plasma guns.

Only if you take nothing but plasma vets with no transport along with the Medusa. That's a tailored one-dimensional deathwing killer that will have a lot of problems against anything that isn't deathwing.

And it would be better than taking a vendetta and giving those terminators up to two or three turns to completely destroy the rest of your army while you wait for air support.

Why are we using 5th edition reserves rules in 6th edition? In 6th edition you have a 66% chance of getting your Vendetta after only 1-2 enemy turns, and a 90% chance of getting it by 2-3. So unless you always go second your more likely waiting time is 1-2 turns.