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If Knight Commander Pask is in something non-template firing, and rolls a 6 to hit, does he do the sniper thing like other characters?

This came up not too long ago shortly after the Tau codex came out. There was no consensus. I'm of the opinion that they do not as the firing model is not a character - they just get to use an upgraded BS.

I was going to say it would be pretty crazy if Knight Commander Pask hopped in a Punisher and started mowing down sergeants and s**t, lol.

Last time it was brought up was here.

That being said an argument could be made for Cronus, as he is a character.

I am in the group which states no, as much as i would love Longstriker to be a character.

The rule which grants precise shot on 6's is found in the character section of the book and requires the model to be identified as a character. Characters are marked by the unique flag in their profile, (Character) or (ch), to indicate that they meet this requirement. Any model that does not have this flag, regardless of what that model is named, can not be considered to be a character for rules purposes. They simply lack the identifying flags needed to evoke these rules.

Seeing that Pask, and Longstrike, are upgrades they do not have their own profiles. Instead you are told to use an existing profile, with some slight modifications. This modified profile does not have the character flag, it did not start with this flag nor does the 'upgrade' state you add this flag to the existing profile. Therefore this new profile does not give you the required permissions to use precise shots.

The way I sum it up is:
Just having a name, and a 'one per army' limitation, doesn't make you (unique) or a (character.)

Blast it, I don't have my rulebook to hand... but the part on special characters decrees that, yes, special characters are indeed all Characters. This is what allows Bjorn the Fell Handed to engage in challenges, for example.

Right, the problem is are Pask and Longstrike characters, and if so, do they (and Cronus) give their vehicle the character designation?

The page you are looking for Super is 110.

While all special characters follow the rules for characters there is also two additional rules put forth here. One is called Unique and the other is Warlord Traits. It also has two examples of unique characters and a quick paragraph that gives a definition on what makes a character unique. That definition does state that they differ from normal characters because they have a name.

While some take this to mean anything with a name is a special and unique character, I do not. That section of the rule book talks about how they differ from normal characters, setting the requirement that they have to also be characters in order to qualify. Characters are easily recognized by the (character) flag found in the models profile, so if a model is lacking this flag it doesn't matter if they have a name because they need both to qualify as a special character.

I also like pointing out to people that there is an additional flag found in the army list section of all codex That additional flag is found in the unit composition part of the profile and is always found beside named characters. That flag is (unique) which is the same title as the rule being discussed on page 110. It clearly is highlighting that this model is unique and page 110 is what tells you what the unique description means.

I don't think this is a coincidence, the (unique) flag is the fastest way to identify a model which is a special character just like (character) identifies which models are characters.

Well, they're definitely Characters (unless I'm remembering the rulebook wrongly). Whether they confer the rule is trickier. I believe Bjorn stands as a RAW precedent that they do, and there's nothing to tell us that vehicles can't be Characters... but then we aren't told that we can confer the rules either, where other special rules DO give us permission. You could also use the argument that Bjorn is but one named example, and the others haven't been updated to suit.

RAI I don't think it should be the case because some of the rules kind of break when you try to apply them. For instance, how would you challenge a Leman Russ with Pask in it? We have two conflicting rules - that the challenge continues until only one contender is still alive, and that the vehicle may simply move away (that gives me visions of an angry Ork Nob yelling "Oi! I ain't done wit' yoo yet!" as he chases after a tank slowly pooting away...)

For Precision Shots in particular - don't the rules for Pask and Longstrike simply tell us that the model with their upgrade uses a different BS instead? Not specifically that that character has the BS and the vehicle uses it?

(edit) Jinx, just saw what you put about "Unique" in particular - that may just nail it. I'll look it up when I get a chance, thanks.

I will need to revise the situation to be sure, and that might take me a little while. I am sure Bjorn has both the (character) flag as well as the (unique) flag but till I can get a copy of the codex I can not say for sure. If he has these flags then he isn't an exception, even a vehicle, but if he lacks these then it will be a interesting situation indeed.

From the SW FAQ:

Page 83 – HQ, Bjorn the Fell-handed, Unit Type.
Change unit type to Walker (Character).

Bjorn is a unique walker.

Pask and longstrike are unique upgrades to vehicles. I do not believe that makes the vehicle a character with precision shots.

The Exarch upgrade for the Crimson Hunter in the latest Eldar codex specifically has the Perfect Strike special rule, which grants the model the ability to make Precision Shots. As such, I'm inclined to believe that other vehicle upgrade characters that lack a similar rule do not have the ability to make Precision Shots.

So if some determine that they convey Character to the vehicle, can it now 'Challenge' Belial with his Sword/Storm Bolter and have the Deathwing Termies with Powerfist Attacks be excluded from the combat? Hehe

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
So if some determine that they convey Character to the vehicle, can it now 'Challenge' Belial with his Sword/Storm Bolter and have the Deathwing Termies with Powerfist Attacks be excluded from the combat? Hehe

Well, tau vehicles can "attack" during the assault phase...