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2013/06/25 00:16:01
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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The title probably says everything I'm trying to choose between Horus and Angron and I want people's opinions on which is better.
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Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/06/25 00:19:16
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Doesn't Horus hit at S10 AP2? Yeah that pretty much seals the deal right there.
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 Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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2013/06/25 00:25:08
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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 Kain wrote:Doesn't Horus hit at S10 AP2? Yeah that pretty much seals the deal right there.
Angron has 10 S:10 AP:2 attcks on the charge
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Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/06/25 00:31:33
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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ThePrimordial wrote: Kain wrote:Doesn't Horus hit at S10 AP2? Yeah that pretty much seals the deal right there.
Angron has 10 S:10 AP:2 attcks on the charge
But Angron has a paltry MEQ save, and I misread the rule, the worldbreaker gets AP1 and S10 and concussive. Because feth all the things.
Forget Abaddon, Horus is going to take *everyone's* lunch money, he can even beat a Biotitan's face in.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/25 00:34:55
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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2013/06/25 00:39:04
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Cosmic Joe
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Lysander's pretty beastly as well.
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Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. |
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2013/06/25 00:40:00
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Are you comparing a 1st company captain to a Primarch?
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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2013/06/25 00:41:23
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Major
Fortress of Solitude
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Pshhawwww. Not even close.
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Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General |
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2013/06/25 01:01:35
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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In general which one will cause more damage in one game because as long as Horus is kept away from too much anti tank I don't see him ever dying
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Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/06/25 02:21:28
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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Question is, can he take the Swarmlord?
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 Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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2013/06/25 02:26:28
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Knight of the Inner Circle
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None can take Azrael! Oh wait... 
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 6000 points 
 4000 points 
 Empire 5500 Points
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2013/06/25 02:28:56
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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He'd probably insta kill the Swarmlord, I hope you were kidding
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Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/06/25 02:47:46
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Swarmlord with iron arm is pretty crazy. I bet it would be pretty close.
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2013/06/25 03:15:14
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, Texas
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It wouldn't be close (I know from games) The Swarmlord still gave Horus 2 wounds though. 3+ Invul is really helpful
But yeah Horus would probably insta kill a non buffed Swarmlord
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Finally found my quote from a gym buddy born and raised in South Korea:
"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.
"It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
"It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag." |
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2013/06/25 03:25:49
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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I have no idea what his stats are and whether or not he has Eternal Warrior, it was a legitimate question.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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2013/06/25 03:27:10
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Jealous that Horus is Warmaster
Boston
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Kain wrote:ThePrimordial wrote: Kain wrote:Doesn't Horus hit at S10 AP2? Yeah that pretty much seals the deal right there.
Angron has 10 S:10 AP:2 attcks on the charge
But Angron has a paltry MEQ save, and I misread the rule, the worldbreaker gets AP1 and S10 and concussive. Because feth all the things.
Forget Abaddon, Horus is going to take *everyone's* lunch money, he can even beat a Biotitan's face in.
Going from the HH book, I'm not seeing how Angron gets 10 attacks on the charge.
6 base (including the bonus for 2 CCW) + 1 on the charge is 7attacks at S8 AP2 (getting some rerolls from Hatred, I think)
He only has a 3+ 4++ but also has a 6++ FNP, which probably evens out for Horus having the 2+ 3++ (Against each other, they're throwing all of their attacks at AP2 anyway... might get different if each has a squad or characters w/ him)
Angron has Higher WS & Init and one more attack:
Horus has 5 attacks (6 on the charge) that can be split between striking at initiative (AP2 at S7) and wounds that don't call give the enemy -1WS/S for the rest of the game and Unwieldy (I1) mastercrafted and Concussion
If it were me running Horus, I'd also try to have some characters around me, 'cause Angron has a rule requiring him to divide attacks... but Horus is 100 points more than Angron, so the WE would probably outnumber the Sons
But straight up I'd probably give a slight(?) edge to Horus, for being able to do concussive/crippling damage to weaken his opponent as the fight moves forward -- and an extra wound to keep him around long enough to take more advantage of those abilities
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2013/06/25 03:56:20
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
Grand Rapids Metro
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 PrinceRaven wrote:
I have no idea what his stats are and whether or not he has Eternal Warrior, it was a legitimate question.
In game it is a legitimate question.
Swarmy is always going into combat with at least one lash guard. You can't say "unbuffed" because Swarmlord is psychic...that's like trying to compare Mephiston to something and saying without the powers. And if you don't count book powers to simplify it, Paroxysm and Preffered Enemy balance things too.
Iron Arm, Endurance, or Warp Speed make it close. He also make Horus reroll that 3+ invuln. (passes 45% of those invulns) and if he's not EW, which I bet he is, you could insta-gib him on a single wound. Automatically Appended Next Post: And if he does kill the Swarmlord, we'll just make more
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/25 03:57:52
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2013/06/25 08:22:33
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Until he fights a Destroyer Lord and is forced to beat his own face in....
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2013/06/25 08:27:01
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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With a 3++ Save he's more or less safe from his own attacks. Here are some of his goodies from his wargear along with a monstrous creature like statline
1d4chan wrote:The Serpent's Scale- A specially enhanced set of Terminator armor with a +2 Armor save and a +3 Invulnerable save, and it nullifies psychic powers on a 3+. It also ignores effects that would adversely modify his characteristic profile on a 3+. Use against psykers for best results.
Worldbreaker- A Master Crafted power maul said to have been made by the Emperor himself, and it shows. Although it has the Unwieldy quality, the Concussive rule can easily nullify its effects if hitting a foe at S10 and AP1 doesn't just kill them outright.
The Warmaster's Talon- The custom-made lightning claws wielded by Horus (and later Failbaddon) lack the sheer force of the Worldbreaker, but they compensate with the twin-linked bolter built into them for use at long range as well as the Shred rule. But their most dangerous quality is the special rule Disabling Strike. Any unit who is wounded but not killed by the Talon in an Assault phase suffers a -1 to WS and Strength for the rest of the game. And it stacks.
Teleportation Matrix- Horus and any attached Terminator units can Deep Strike, and will not scatter when doing so. Since Legion Terminators don't get to Deep Strike like their post-Heresy counterparts, this is a big help for them.
Frag Grenades- Do we really need to explain what a frag grenade does?
Cognis Signum- Gives him the night vision special rule, prevents infiltrators from dropping near him and gives him +1 BS (which he can pass on to another unit within 6" if he doesn't shoot.
If he passes his leadership roll, he has enough attacks to kill the destroyer lord in a single round and then leave his guard in shambles.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/25 09:38:27
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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2013/06/25 08:45:46
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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Well, with Iron Arm and Warp Speed, a charging Swarmlord will deal 6-8 Strength 7-9 AP 2 attacks, hitting on 3s, (unless Horus is WS 9-10) forcing rerolls on successful invulnerable saves and causing instant death ( though I assume a Primarch would have Eternal Warrior). Can Horus take that and then kill a WS 9 Toughness 7-9 MC with 5 wounds and a 4++? If he can survive but not kill the Swarmlord, can he survive the next round of combat to try and finish it off?
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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2013/06/25 08:51:43
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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PrinceRaven wrote:Well, with Iron Arm and Warp Speed, a charging Swarmlord will deal 6-8 Strength 7-9 AP 2 attacks, hitting on 3s, (unless Horus is WS 9-10) forcing rerolls on successful invulnerable saves and causing instant death ( though I assume a Primarch would have Eternal Warrior). Can Horus take that and then kill a WS 9 Toughness 7-9 MC with 5 wounds and a 4++? If he can survive but not kill the Swarmlord, can he survive the next round of combat to try and finish it off?
Well, Horus does have a statline befitting of a trygon that knows kung fu and went to marksmanship school so the Swarmlord is wounding on 2s and 3s. As he does have EW he's not going away, but his best weapon to wound the swarmlord strikes at I 1 so he has to take the beating first. Then he unloads with the WORLDBREAKER. Sorry it's just that something like that should always be put in caps.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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2013/06/25 09:18:45
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Can that question even be taken seriously? He's a fetching primarch. THE fetching primarch. If he can't kick the Swarmlords teeth in then somebody messed up big time.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/25 09:20:20
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2013/06/25 09:24:19
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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Question is, why did Failbaddon take the claw and not the Worldbreaker?
And what happened to Worldbreaker?
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2013/06/25 09:38:05
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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 shamikebab wrote:Question is, why did Failbaddon take the claw and not the Worldbreaker?
And what happened to Worldbreaker?
I believe the Emperor broke it.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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2013/06/25 09:42:53
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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Emprah, what a douche.
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2013/06/25 12:05:19
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Kids, remember this is 40k tactics. Your opinions on fluff and personal experiences mean very little.
The swarm lord will give him a run for his money. He may not win, but he does do about 2 wounds to the primarch. Your simple dismissal "is that an actual question" is both childish and ridiculous. Horus may be a good fighter, but the swarmlord can be T9, hit on 3's, wound on 2's amd force him to reroll his invulnerable saves. You cannot instagib the swarmlord without rules allowing it.
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2013/06/25 12:16:53
Subject: Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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 Scipio Africanus wrote:Kids, remember this is 40k tactics. Your opinions on fluff and personal experiences mean very little.
The swarm lord will give him a run for his money. He may not win, but he does do about 2 wounds to the primarch. Your simple dismissal "is that an actual question" is both childish and ridiculous. Horus may be a good fighter, but the swarmlord can be T9, hit on 3's, wound on 2's amd force him to reroll his invulnerable saves. You cannot instagib the swarmlord without rules allowing it.
The Swarmlord would be a great challenge, but only with at least Iron Arm, warp speed helps, and if he can get Endurance on him he can actually beat Horus more often than not.
Nevertheless, whenever a hulked out Swarmlord fights a Primarch, you definitely should have over the top epic video game boss music playing.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/25 12:23:07
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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2013/06/25 12:52:42
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Problem is with Swarmlord and Mephiston is that only under ideal circumstances can they match him. You need all the right powers to do it and the right rolls to get there. Where as Horus and Angron are set in stone with what they do. If you dont get the toughness up on the swarmlord than Horus can talon its stats every combat and if you do get your toughness up than he hits you with WORLDBREAKER and makes you Initiative 1. Ideally Swarmlord and Mephiston can match a primarch but realistically only if luck be on your side. Eldrad with all his psychic shenangans and +3 rerollable invul and wounding on a +2 might be able with some luck win the battle of attrition.
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2013/06/25 12:58:41
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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Not to mention he has IWND and might regen every turn. Does anyone else feel Swarmy is going to take a nerf bat to the groin when the next codex drops?
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2013/06/25 13:00:19
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Not to mention he has IWND and might regen every turn. Does anyone else feel Swarmy is going to take a nerf bat to the groin when the next codex drops?
Doubt it, if anything he'll get buffed as he's the super sekrit special character.
Now Tervigons...Tervigons will be nerfed, marked my words.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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2013/06/25 13:02:37
Subject: Re:Is Horus the strongest model in non apocalypse 40k?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Kain wrote:Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Not to mention he has IWND and might regen every turn. Does anyone else feel Swarmy is going to take a nerf bat to the groin when the next codex drops?
Doubt it, if anything he'll get buffed as he's the super sekrit special character.
Now Tervigons...Tervigons will be nerfed, marked my words.
I will kill every baby in the world if tervigons get nerfed. If t'nids can't have baby poopers, no one can.
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Mechanicus
Ravenwing
Deathwing