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Hello, everybody!


This is my first actual post on Dakkadakka, despite being a frequent reader, I finally sat down and registered for a forum account. So hopefully, if this is in the wrong place, the moderators won't bring out the ban hammer too soon. -- However, I'm not posting here for an introduction.

So, here's the story behind this post. I've been thinking about a really interesting way to do Eldar. Not just "Look at us, we're the Craftworld Eldar. Meh." but, something interesting and with a little more grit and flavor than I've seen before. After a session of brainstorming with a friend of mine, we happened to come up with the idea of Eldar Pirates, and a whole backstory, why they're there, their goal, their mission, things like that. However, when I went to go look for Eldar Corsair conversions- Behold. There was an Imperial Armor book, ON ELDAR CORSAIRS. Blew my mind, but now I'm at a terrible internal conflict.

On one hand, I really like the idea of the Eldar Corsairs as an army. Either way, I'm going to make them story-wise, Eldar Corsairs. But which army list I use is debatable. On the other hand, I like all of the Eldar trickery that comes from the 6E Eldar Codex, which, to be honest with all of us here, got REALLY good with the new update. I mean, really good. If this had been back in the 4E Eldar Codex, I would have had no problem getting WS/BS 4 Corsair Squads with two Heavy Weps that can deepstrike in. But alas, that isn't the case.

On the side of the Corsairs:
+ Deep Strike for virtually every unit.
+ Solid unit organization story-wise.
+ Easy to get into range with Eldar short-range Shuriken Weaponry
+ Alternative updated Lasblaster weapons, Assault 3.
+ All of the base Eldar weapons refer to Codex: Eldar, which implies they got weapon updates.
+ 40k Approved!
- If the Corsair squad doesn't eliminate it's target on the Deepstrike, it's likely going to get eaten whole the next turn.
- Lack of leader units.
- Very, very limited and weak Psyker unit, at Master Level 1, with two Psyker powers per turn with Spirit Stones.
- Only Two HQ choices.
- Lack of any Psykers at all other than the HQ. Very Strange.
- No Battle Focus, meaning no move shoot run/move run shoot.

On the side of 6E Eldar Codex:
+ Large masses of Guardians, with WS/BS4, I5, as opposed to I4 with the Corsair List.
- Harder to get Guardians in range with the enemy, although it is cushioned a bit with Battle Focus.
+ Eldrad Ulthran. Enough Said.
+ Psykers are VERY good for the Eldar now, as if they weren't before. Especially with all of the new abilities the Warlocks recieved.
+ High number of Psyker units, aswell as the Seer Council. Which, to my experience, the Blade Sworn would have trouble dislodging.
- Cannot Deep Strike in Tanks and Wraithguard to make your opponent rage. Sadface.
- Can only have one heavy weapon platform per Guardian squad, no matter the size. However, having relentless heavy weapons platforms, does make up for it, giving them more long-term mobility than the Corsair Squads.
- Not as easily representative of "We're Rogue Eldar" on the tabletop as a Corsair list may be.
+ However, can be easily interpreted units. Guardians can serve as Corsair Crewmen, Warlocks can be Blade sworn, perhaps the crew happened to pick up a large amount of Psychically trained when they split from the Craftworld during the Kagoth Civil War (..My own event in their backstory.)

Thoughts, opinions, tactics? I'd really like to know the opinions on which will be more competitive, and which will be more fun to some players. Currently I'm playing them as 6E Eldar Codex.

Thanks!

Before eldar got updated, corsairs were simply better than eldar. Now its the other way around. Warp hunters and Nightwings are great and wasps can get things done, but the troops and elites for corsairs are pretty meh now that all eldar are bs4. I still like taking corsairs as allies though, because that corsair prince deepstriking wraithguard/fire dragons with precision on my warlord is a silly and mean trick. Plus the corsair prince's barrage and shadowfield really come in handy. Fuegan+Corsair prince+ harlequins and the rest of the codex shooty makes a pretty tough combination.

I'd never thought about taking them as allies, mostly because I've actually got a minuscule amount of Eldar to begin with, who when I play against people at my local hobby shop, I tend to roll as allies to my Space Marines until I have a more solid army. Or should I say, larger army. Corsairs all around sound pretty nasty to me, which is why I'm tempted. If they would get an update (Which I doubt.), to recieve some of the same benefits 6E Eldar do, I think they'd be an incredibly solid army, and fit their shtick a little more. Mostly what tends to bug me is, the Eldar got all of this new, shiny stuff, that you can't really touch if you're Corsairs. Meanwhile, I find the Corsairs much more interesting. I feel so internally conflicted. Mostly because I'm thinking down the line of throwing some Tau Allies in with my regular Eldar, if I choose to go regular Eldar, since I know Tau and Eldar are Battle Brothers- To make up this Corsair Fleet of sorts. You see, the Tau were going to be.. Well, rebels, to the communist regime the Tau Empire has going on. And the Eldar, foreseeing this conflict, would have come at roughly the right time to assist the Rebels in a losing battle, and offering them the chance to roll with the Eldar Corsair Fleet and get away from the big conflict. Seems solid, in my mind. But my question is still how to make all this work the best on the tabletop.

I am in the same boat, but I think the way to go is Eldar with Corsair allies. The fluff even has precdent for it, what with Iyanden having Yriel bring his Corsairs to the party and Lugganath being essentially a pirate haven anyway...

Perhaps. But then what of my Tau Auxillaries... Hrm. I've made an interesting story to go along with a friend of mine's army, and then another friend's, and we all tend to sit down, and play out a mix of Warhammer 40,000, and story telling. So I try to get things as smooth to blend as possible. But putting my story stuff aside, what's a good tactic to use, Eldar/Corsairs? I mean, what would you all bring to the table from the Corsairs, and does the Corsair Prince's deepstrike ability apply to 6E Eldar Units?

Forgeworld has specifically said they will update the corsairs list in the next couple of months (I emailed and they will always answer...but couple of months has been the stock answer lately).

I would figure out what models you like the best. If you like jetpack corsairs, wasp walkers (I mean really really like them), or falcons then the corsair list may be worth it for you. You can field falcons in huge numbers.

If you like foot guardians, waveserpents, jetbikes, or have no intention to field guardians then the codex is just better.

You can field warp hunters, nightwings, pheonix bombers, wasps, etc. in the codex list. You will still want to get IA11 though so you have their profiles and info in what slot they take.

The prince is actually all the HQ that you could ever want or need. His planet strike ability is useful and his ability to deep strike any unit he wants to are just awesome.

Keep in mind jetpack infantry can move, shoot, and move again in the assault phase. They are also relentless so those EMLs the corsairs are equiped with will fire at full BS.

The prince can let 3 units from the Corsair list deep strike (which can be 1 integrated Codex Eldar unit, chosen as Elite from the list of allowed Codex Eldar units).
Deep striking in 3 Eldar units from an allied detachment isn't possible IMO.

Until there's an update from Forge World, any change you make to the Corsairs list to represent the changes to Codex Eldar (like giving bladestorm to the guns) is house rules. This will be fine with friends but might be a problem elsewhere.

Right now I would go for Codex Eldar. You can easily keep the corsair theme by picking the right units and modeling them as such.
The only substantial thing you'd miss is the jetpack troops and the hornet model.

 Nivoglibina wrote:
The prince can let 3 units from the Corsair list deep strike (which can be 1 integrated Codex Eldar unit, chosen as Elite from the list of allowed Codex Eldar units).
Deep striking in 3 Eldar units from an allied detachment isn't possible IMO.

Until there's an update from Forge World, any change you make to the Corsairs list to represent the changes to Codex Eldar (like giving bladestorm to the guns) is house rules. This will be fine with friends but might be a problem elsewhere.

Right now I would go for Codex Eldar. You can easily keep the corsair theme by picking the right units and modeling them as such.
The only substantial thing you'd miss is the jetpack troops and the hornet model.

Exactly what I was thinking. Unless the Corsair list gets an update on their Psykers, I may not end up going with them. Mostly because I find psychic powers to be really fun, and really fun with your opponent if you're playing on a fun or competitive level. The good old feeling of "Really, more Eldar Trickery?" is just.. Priceless for me.

 Nivoglibina wrote:
The prince can let 3 units from the Corsair list deep strike (which can be 1 integrated Codex Eldar unit, chosen as Elite from the list of allowed Codex Eldar units).
Deep striking in 3 Eldar units from an allied detachment isn't possible IMO.

Until there's an update from Forge World, any change you make to the Corsairs list to represent the changes to Codex Eldar (like giving bladestorm to the guns) is house rules. This will be fine with friends but might be a problem elsewhere.

Right now I would go for Codex Eldar. You can easily keep the corsair theme by picking the right units and modeling them as such.
The only substantial thing you'd miss is the jetpack troops and the hornet model.

I agree with the deepstriking part. It is only stuff from the Corsair List that can deepstrike. Of course, you can pick some Elites, and deepstrike them. Even that doesn't make Banshees useful though, IMO! You can, however, deepstrike some non-troop Wraithguard...

As there are no rules for Shuriken Catapults in IA11, and it specifically says to use the list with the Eldar Codex, making no mention of which Eldar Codex to use, I say it should be the latest one. Someone new to the hobby would have no access to the old one, after all. I don't see that as a big deal. Bladestorm for the catapults is therefore, IMO, allowed. Laser-lock for the scatterlasers too. Lasblasters are given a profile in IA11, so use that profile, not the improved one in the new codex.

Hopefully the update will still allow the following:

*Prince with pack, void sabre shadowfield and haywire.
*Voidstorm Elite - 9 members, 3 fusion guns
*Corsair squad - 5 members, fusion gun, felarch with haywire
*Dedicated transport Falcon - scatter laser, spirit stones

That comes in as a 558 points allies force and delivers a whole lot of anti-vehicle firepower via deepstrike. Add another two corsair squads with falcon and you have a 1000 point force that I would enjoy playing, even if it is not all that competive. Personally, I also have two Forge World Phoenix Bombers to make it up to 1500points, or put one in at 1000 points instead of the third squad/falcon.

 Fifty wrote:

As there are no rules for Shuriken Catapults in IA11, and it specifically says to use the list with the Eldar Codex, making no mention of which Eldar Codex to use, I say it should be the latest one. Someone new to the hobby would have no access to the old one, after all. I don't see that as a big deal. Bladestorm for the catapults is therefore, IMO, allowed. Laser-lock for the scatterlasers too. Lasblasters are given a profile in IA11, so use that profile, not the improved one in the new codex.

Correct, but some people might argue that Craftworld Eldar got bladestorm on their weapons at an increased model cost, while these Corsairs get them now for free, yada yada. I personally don't want to deal with those kind of arguments and avoid changing anything to the Corsair dudes until Forge World tells me to.

I think I'd just ask my opponents. I play non-competitive (well, I did. I haven' played at all for almost two years, I think) and I doubt they would object. It is not an unreasonable improvement, by comparison with what Codex Eldar got. If they said no, I'd just play with the old rules.

Corsair prince's sky raider wording:
"any three units chosen as part of the force orginization chart".
One FO chart contains a primary detachment, an ally detachment, and a fortification. You can deepstrike ally models. Thats the whole point of the corsair prince. Almost everything in the corsair list already deepstrikes.


Voidstorm squads are pretty bad, dont bother with them. Just use corsair squads. 5+ armor at 12 points per model is way too much.

Another interesting combination with the new codex is grabbing a shimmershield and sticking the corsair prince in a squad. 5 point upgrade for 5+ inv on the whole squad. However you lose the shadowfield sadly.

What i have come up with for alies:

Corsair prince, shadowfield, power staff, melta bombs 150

5 Man corsairs Shuri cannon lasblasters 55
5 man corsairs Shuri cannon lasblasters 55

Nightwing 145

Warp hunter 125

Corsairs holding my back field objectives and put out quite a bit of fire for 5 men. The G2G if shot at for a 3+ in area terrain.

On a re-read of p109, I agree that allies can deepstrike, but I am not sure it will stay that way when they update.

Shimmershields are in the Corsair Wargear list, and they are the old CC only version, sadly. The nice thing about the Voidstorm Elite is that they can deepstrike, fire 3 meltas and a hayware from the Prince, then hop 2d6 away to try and get a cover save... Might not work though, and now that I reckon Fire Dragons can deepstrike, you can drop 7 Fire Dragons for the same price, maybe not worth it...

All true and correct. But remember that wording is from 5th edition, there were no allies in the FoC at that time.

This all sounds good and dandy, but am I the only one who feels like the Void Dreamer is incredibly underpowered for an HQ psyker?

Void dreamer are pretty meh. Withering radiance is the strongest damage psychic power in the game vs things like TEQ, but otherwise its meh. Grynx is really where the void dreamer is there for. 75 points for one reroll any time in the game plus a great weapon at 12" is ok for an HQ slot. Hopefully he gets erattad to use the runes of battle table also.

 zephoid wrote:
Void dreamer are pretty meh. Withering radiance is the strongest damage psychic power in the game vs things like TEQ, but otherwise its meh. Grynx is really where the void dreamer is there for. 75 points for one reroll any time in the game plus a great weapon at 12" is ok for an HQ slot. Hopefully he gets erattad to use the runes of battle table also.

Agreed. Void Dreamer also needs to hit at least mastery level 2, as well, to put him on par with other psyker HQs. After all, he may be pirate Eldar, but he's still Eldar.

The Void Dreamer is appalling, IMO. He can reach mastery level 2 with Spirit Stones, but hopefully he'll get much improved.

 Fifty wrote:
The Void Dreamer is appalling, IMO. He can reach mastery level 2 with Spirit Stones, but hopefully he'll get much improved.

He's still mastery level 1, only he gets two powers per turn. Against other psykers, he's still ML: 1, and won't get as good of a deny the witch roll.

I am very keen on the ideas and look of a corsair army. I am planning to use the eldar codex though, possibly building some of the jetpack corsair models to use as swooping hawks. I would definitely take the nightwing and warp hunter as choices for eldar though.

 I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:
I am very keen on the ideas and look of a corsair army. I am planning to use the eldar codex though, possibly building some of the jetpack corsair models to use as swooping hawks. I would definitely take the nightwing and warp hunter as choices for eldar though.

Brilliant! I never thought of that. It'd work perfectly for a 6E Eldar army that's trying to pull off The Corsair look.

One thing...l 6th edition eldar codex guardians can take 2 heavy weapons if their are 20. Not only one.

Use DE scourges minus wings with guardian heads ( i use high elf heads, which are very, very similar to guardians but open face). The models look great for corsairs and could double as Swooping Hawks. I have a full 20 men with jetpacks and some Dark elf Corsairs with eldar weapons, heads, and bits for the ground troops. I managed to find 30 plastic las blasters for 2nd edition guardians in the bits bin in my local LGS. I had to modify a lot of arms to use them, but my corsairs actually have las blasters.

For my Quasi-Corsairs, I'm actually going to settle down on using primarily Eldar schemes, afterall, they were originally a Craftworld's standing force. Doesn't make sense they'd change too much, unless they had to. Except- I took a few liberties with my HQ's. There's also a WIP post on these fellows, which, can be found.. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/536202.page

I've yet to update it beyond my initial test models, but my Farseer model is actually a kitbash of Dark Eldar, Dire Avengers, and the new Farseer model. Then I made a Warlock out of High Elf parts, and a Warlock out of High Elf parts, Dire Avenger parts, and the left over body from the Farseer. I'll have some pictures up of those in the morning, but if anyone would like to criticize anything, any comments, anything, I'm open to the criticism.

Back to topic, that Farseer will be the primary unit, one of Admiral Lorien's .. Captains, I'll say. Captain.. Doric Allean, perhaps. I'll have to think on a back story or him. I figured since I'm going with the 6E Eldar Codex at this point, I'll begin molding around it, as a concept, and base my strategy off of the story I come up with. Granted, it will have to be a valid strategy, but the models I invest in, and to what effect will be based on the hardy crew of the Korlandra's Lament, or.. Whatever vessel happens to be in the fleet. Each will be named, customized, and made to their own effect.

The only question is: What do I buy? What's good out there, and for what extent?

Currently I have one Farseer, 10 Guardians (W/ Weapon Platform), 5 Dire Avengers, and 5 Wraithguard/Wraithblades. I started small.