Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just wonder what people think of running a chaos lord over the daemon prince?
A tzeench lord clocks in at ~50 point more than a non-casting nurgle prince (with flight, armor and bling).

The Lord would take a mark of tzeench, great weapon, barded daemonic steed, dragon helm, crown of command, and talisman of preservation, and the gifts of soul feeder, breathe and third eye.
It gives the lord a 1+/3++ save (re-rolling 1's, 2+ vs fire still re-rolling 1s), and stubborn 9. He's packing 5 S7 attacks, 2 S5 attacks and a S5 stomp.

The daemon prince is harder to hit (usually nurgle and WS9), S6 with the attacks and thunder stomp, but only shows up with a 5+ ward.

Do you think the Tzeench Chaos Lord is viable?
The big downside is he costs you your level 4. The upside is he can join units.



-Matt

I think hes definetly viable and i originally wanted to run a chaos lord but at 2k-2.5k point games you just cant really get in a lvl 4 aswell as him.

I think at 3k point games hes alot more useful and also people will have more options for dealing with your daemon prince so he starts to seem less powerful.

Also at 1500 point games i took a similar build lord with some knights and they just wrecked everything, at that point lvl i think you can get away with just a lvl 2.

I think a CL is fine. A bunkered CL is more conservative. Though I'd be more inclined to take a dedicated lvl 4 over him as you'd be protecting your caster completely instead of having him balls-out in DP monster land. The DP is clearly a better fighter than a CL. The lvl4, IMHO, is a better caster than a DP. So go with your strengths.

DukeRustfield wrote:
I think a CL is fine. A bunkered CL is more conservative. Though I'd be more inclined to take a dedicated lvl 4 over him as you'd be protecting your caster completely instead of having him balls-out in DP monster land. The DP is clearly a better fighter than a CL. The lvl4, IMHO, is a better caster than a DP. So go with your strengths.

If I ran a chaos lord, I'd take a scroll and a +1 to dispel staff on a level 2. +3 to dispel and a scroll is pretty good. By not tying my magic to the Lord slot, it gives me a lot more options for lores. It's nice to not be tied to death/nurgle or tzeench/metal. I could go shadow or fire.

I'm not sold on the DP being a better fighter.
5 S7, 2S5 and stomp vs 5 S6 and thunder stomp.
WS8 vs WS9 doesn't matter on offense.
3++ ward vs -1 to be hit and 5+ ward is tough to rate.

I'm thinking sit this guy in the middle of a tzeench sword and board block and go to town.
He kills what they don't.

-Matt

At max points he's way better. Low investment I think CL is better cuz he has LoS which is godlike.

I've been running a chaos lord on a dragon to good effect, but that was purely due to the daemon princes pissing me off

DukeRustfield wrote:
At max points he's way better. Low investment I think CL is better cuz he has LoS which is godlike.

That's totally true. Let's find a random thread and derail it with 4 pages of is LOS Godlike, or Super Godlike.
I almost think at low points, he's better than the DP, because of the LOS.
Locally, people max out on warmachines at low points and then start adding other stuff at higher.
@3K, you can bring a stupid number of points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ceann Fine wrote:
I've been running a chaos lord on a dragon to good effect, but that was purely due to the daemon princes pissing me off

Really? The cost prevents you from properly gearing up the lord unless you're running ~2700+, and nothing keeps the dragon alive.
The biggest problem I have with dragons is the challenge.
The lord kills the guy at init 7 and the dragon doesn't even get to swing.

-Matt

Matt the daemon prince will always be the best Lord choice in the army book hands down, I have the load out of my lord at home and while its far from excellent its not bad and only poor placement gets me caught too often

I think CL and DP can both fight just fine, so the relevant decision is what else you get and what you want your Lord choice to do.

DP gives you access to flying+unbreakable+immune to killing blow+immune to psych, but can't join a unit. So he functions independantly and ties up things that you don't wanna get charged by. He's vulnerable to cannons and the like. All his attacks are magical if fighting BotWD HE.

CL w/ disc and crown can do this function ok, but is subject to psych and killing blow, and can fail his stubborn check. I think he counts as cav, so marauder horse/chaos knights could give him 4+ LOS if in range.

CL w/ daemonic steed and crown can join a unit, and could get access to 4+ LOS thru friendly skullcrushers, but loses maneuverabilty to block charges. CL on a juggernaut could just join-em for 2+ LOS, but loses some ward.

CL on foot/Chaos Steed gets 2+ LOS and has a smaller footprint, so more of the original unit gets to fight.

Any CL has access to non-magical attacks if fighting BotWD HE. They can also take more points of magic weapon if you have a particular role in mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HawaiiMatt wrote:


If I ran a chaos lord, I'd take a scroll and a +1 to dispel staff on a level 2. +3 to dispel and a scroll is pretty good. By not tying my magic to the Lord slot, it gives me a lot more options for lores. It's nice to not be tied to death/nurgle or tzeench/metal. I could go shadow or fire.

This requires 2 hero-lvl mages right? Its viable, and you could have your BSB also in 2400ish lists. But your CL protection competes with your BSB protection. A DP means the BSB can have the 3rd eye etc.

@ 2400
Tzeench BSB on barded steed, scaly skin, armor of destiny and Great Weapon, shows up with 1+/3++, leaving the lord still a rock star, and still squeezing in 2 level 2 sorcerers with +1 to dispel on one and dispel scroll on the other.

So you can take the CL and still have a decent magic defense and two very survivable beat sticks.

-Matt

DukeRustfield wrote:
At max points he's way better. Low investment I think CL is better cuz he has LoS which is godlike.

Uh?, that specific CL can't LoS, since it is on a daemonic steed he uses the monster base which is different from the knights/warriors so they can't LoS him (not that it needed much with 3++ and rerolls on 1++ but still). The only unit that can LoS him are the skullcrushers... and maybe the dragon ogres?, anyway he can't join the crushers due to MoK so that leaves it to join a unit of dragon ogres.

I think changing the lord's daemonic steed for a normal steed would be better even thou it loses some stats he won't get sniped by cannons and throwers, and magic.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

DukeRustfield wrote:
At max points he's way better. Low investment I think CL is better cuz he has LoS which is godlike.

Uh?, that specific CL can't LoS, since it is on a daemonic steed he uses the monster base which is different from the knights/warriors so they can't LoS him (not that it needed much with 3++ and rerolls on 1++ but still). The only unit that can LoS him are the skullcrushers... and maybe the dragon ogres?, anyway he can't join the crushers due to MoK so that leaves it to join a unit of dragon ogres.

I think changing the lord's daemonic steed for a normal steed would be better even thou it loses some stats he won't get sniped by cannons and throwers, and magic.

He could get a 4+ look out for being near skull crushers, or he could join a unit with the Blasted Standard and make look outs unneeded.
That's the niche he has over the daemon prince. A chaos lord can ride at a dwarf/empire/orc gun line and make it. A daemon prince isn't going to make it across with 5 cannon shots (empire), 3 cannons, bolts and stones (dwarves) or massed bolt/stone/flying goblins (orcs).

A daemon prince seems the best, until you run into an army that went All In on warmachines.

-Matt

Putting a hero on a mount and making him lose his LoS is only valuable if it's a monster. And even then it better be a damn good monster.

I'm not quite sure if you can deal with armies like HE, DE, VC if you are not having a lvl 4 wizard, tho the build is quite ok. I'm used of having high lvl wizards on my army due to the fact that can buff/debuff and most of the times you can rely on them for good. On the other hand a chaos lord is a really good choice with that build. He seems unkillable to be honest, are you sure you wanna stick on a great weapon (I guess since noone can kill him you can do this) but wasting his high inititative is a pity! On the other hand taking a magical weapon will make you lose some other item like the crown of command and you badly need that. If you ever try it on a challenging game please let me know if he works out good!