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I'm having a bit of trouble trying to figure out how to equip my War Walkers. My list has one unit of 3, and I'm not sure whether to give them all one type of weapon (like Bright Lance or Starcannon) or mix it up (Bright Lance/Scatter Laser, etc). Scatter Lasers by themselves would be a decent AA, considering that a single unit with all SLs puts out 24 S6 shots, and if they're guided by a Farseer (my list has two), they could take down fliers.

This is the list I have so far, I think what I'm missing is some anti-TEQ.

Eldar list – 1850
HQ
• Farseer – 115
o Jetbike
• Farseer – 115
o Jetbike
TROOPS
• 6 Jetbikes – 102
• 5 Dire Avengers - 75 (objective Campers plus BS Incarus LC)
o Exarch

• 11 Guardian Defenders – 99
o Wave Serpent - 140
 Scatter Laser
 Shuriken Cannon

ELITES
• 6 Fire Dragons – 167
o Exarch
 Fast Shot
 Firepike
o Wave Serpent – 140
 Scatter Laster
 Shuriken Cannon

FAST ATTACK
• 6 Warp Spiders – 134
o Exarch
 Fast Shot
• Crimson Hunter - 160

HEAVY SUPPORT
• 3 War Walkers
o some sort of shooty bit.
• Fire prism - 125
• Fire prism – 125

FORTIFICATION
• Aegis Defense Line - 85
o Icarus Lascannon

What should I do with the war walkers?

I'm a fan of SL/SC walkers. The Scatter lasers make the Starcannons TL, and they still have 6 shots each for the AA duties.

Belly wrote:
I'm a fan of SL/SC walkers. The Scatter lasers make the Starcannons TL, and they still have 6 shots each for the AA duties.

In fact, this is my favorite loadout too at the moment. I've magnetized the weapons. Brightlances are also an option but tank heavy armies are not so often seen here in our local meta.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Belly wrote:
I'm a fan of SL/SC walkers. The Scatter lasers make the Starcannons TL, and they still have 6 shots each for the AA duties.

In fact, this is my favorite loadout too at the moment. I've magnetized the weapons. Brightlances are also an option but tank heavy armies are not so often seen here in our local meta.

That's the other way that I run them. Two Bright Lances. Cos every second army is a damn IG list.

Belly wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Belly wrote:
I'm a fan of SL/SC walkers. The Scatter lasers make the Starcannons TL, and they still have 6 shots each for the AA duties.

In fact, this is my favorite loadout too at the moment. I've magnetized the weapons. Brightlances are also an option but tank heavy armies are not so often seen here in our local meta.

That's the other way that I run them. Two Bright Lances. Cos every second army is a damn IG list.

Well, our IG players field some Vendettas but otherwise more ground troops with heavy weapons and allies (mostly SW and GK).

I ran SL/BL this weekend, but I think I'll take BL/BL next time.
The twin-link from SL didn't make up for the loss of a 2nd BL. Also, I kept Guiding the squadron, forgetting about the effect from the SLs.
The SL might be good against horde and light armour, but I'd prefer to be better against heavy armour.

I've been using SL/BL because I face enough AV13 and the odd LR list to know I need some heavy AT. Starcannon isn't bad at AT but you need to roll really well. I don't have a seer with guide or prescience in my list so I take the Scatterlaser as well but I'm thinking BL/BL would work too. Problem with that setup is that after you have taken out whatever heavy AT there is you want the Scatterlasers more than the BLs.

Yeah I feel like taking War Walkers is such a good chance to bring some Dakka. I feel a pang of regret if i dont have many shots with them. At first I was against the idea of splitting the unit's role, but I've been using SL/BL and it's been great. I still have enough Dakka to kill infantry, but I can hurt AV 13/14. And it works just fine against AV 10-12 too. Against infantry it also gives ID chances against T4 targets. Pretty nice since the Scatts can clear out a few guys in front so you can hit the character with BLs.

I find that few lists have a lot of AV 13-14. Usually just 1-3 of them. So it stinks if you can't use your guns to much effect after those are dead. SL/BL is my solution to that dilemma.

SL/SC or SL/BL IMO. Preferably SC, given BL only become really useful against AV13 and AV14 and multiple shots benefit a lot more from Twin-Linking with the SL.

If you're going to run any Bright Lances, you should run dual Bright Lances. Splitting roles on any Eldar unit is just a bad way to run, and it's not like an Eldar army is going to be short on S6 shots. Pick a role for your War Walkers; trying to make them do two things is just a way to make them do neither thing very well at all, especially once they start taking casualties.

^^^^ what Magc8ball said

It was more for the ability to Twin Link the Bright Lances than to find "versatility". I've seen two people so far take SL/BL in the hopes they can deal with FMCs and possibly other Fliers. You are likely to get 1-2 hits if you are forced to Snap Fire with the Scatter Laser in a unit of 3.

Just because i was interested by the idea of shooting flyers with snap shots...

BS1 and 4 shots ... so chance that each shot will miss 5/6 so 625/1296 that all shots will miss. Or simply 51.8% chance one will hit
TLBS1 and ...
one Shot (bright lance) 30.6% chance of a hit. (15.8% for both)(23.8%)
two Shot (star cannon) 51.8% chance of a hit (26.8% for both)(34.8%)
three Shot (ShurikenC) 66.5% chance of a hit (34.4% for both)(42.4%)
... ok for completions sake
One Flak ... 88.8% chance of a hit. (46% for both) (78.1% that it hits with and without TL)

Still not really sure that its worth it for flak ... seeing as its 20pts more

Given that I already have two fire prisms and a unit of fire dragons, I think scatter and star combo is my jam. I'll play it out, see if I like the dual scatter lasers or dual starcannons any better. Flak is just way too expensive.

Mathhammer FTW! Eldar AA:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/534354.page

Compared to Scatter/Star the Scatter/Lance only has one shot fewer. I find that they still do rather well at killing infantry but also have a good enough chance to hurt tanks. The Scatter Lasers are still very good all the way up to AV12, but at least they TL you against AV13. I don't recommend them to be your only anti-heavy tank, but I think they still work well in both roles. I originally completely wrote off mixing Lasers with lances because of the differing uses, but after trying it I'm coming around. Anything I really need only lances against, I fire my allied Dark Eldar, but the mixed SL/BL walkers provide some effective options when dedicated anti-AV13/14 fails.

Using Scatter Laser/Bright Lance for anti-armour makes little sense, unless you know you're facing lots of light armour like Dark Eldar Raiders or Ork Trukks.

If you're shooting at anything AV12 or up, the worst you'll inflict with the scatter itself is a glancing hit. Sure, you may then reroll the Lance but out of two to-hit rolls, you'll still only get one Lance hit.
If you take two Lances, you still get two to-hit rolls, but if you're lucky you can get TWO hits out of it. You're trading useless (or next-to-useless) scatter laser hits for a shot at a second Lance hit, which will likely do some damage if it lands.

If you're taking them to take on light armour anyway (AV10 or 11), then you're better off with double scatter lasers to start with. That'll put on enough hits to wipe out the hull points of the sturdiest of not-very-sturdy vehicles, and also has a shot at allocating over extra hits to other members of the squadrons that these often turn up in. This also lets them take on infantry really well too.

I agree that S6 is not ideal vs AV12, but it's far from useless, especially on a gun with 4 shots. I frequently find myself glancing down vehicles. This is one reason I loved Warp Spiders and Scatter Walkers in the last book too.

You can get 2 hits with a little luck firing two BLs, but once you kill the 1-2 AV13-14 targets you have fairly expensive walkers who are mostly ineffective vs infantry. Unless you're fighting Necrons I just don't think there are likely to be enough targets that you need the extra lance for. SL/BL is me planning for the whole game and protecting myself against situations where I don't have efficient answers to my opponent. If you really have problems with AV12 (and we really shouldn't) then focus fire with some other units. Ally in some DE or Tau (unnecessary, but it's an option).

But I think mixing SL/BL is better than people think. Looking at the math it may be less efficient than other combinations in their ideal situations, but it does work well enough against all intended targets. Im just saying it shouldn't be dismissed entirely because it serves a multi-purpose function the other options don't. While it may not be incredible in any situation, it's also not bad. I consider it a solid option no matter what I fight.

Scatterlaser / Starcannon for dealing with power armour I think.

I don't like it though, having asymmetrical weapons is ugly.

I ran some general numbers comparing SLxBL and 2xBL here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/537511.page#5806491

The general pattern is that 2xBL is better against AV13, AV14, and getting killshots on AV12. The SLxBL combo is better at stripping Hull Points against AV12 on down. It is also better against pretty much any infantry target, including TEQ. Finally, it's better against Flyers except for killshots against AV12; both platforms are pretty bad against AV12 Flyers anyway.

As for considering the Starcannon, it kills roughly .5 TEQ more per model than the SLxBL combo, but the Bright lance does ID T4, which is nice against Paladins, non-Nurgle Obliterators, etc.

if you're bringing farseers, the twin linking from SL isn't necessary.

You can guide all the war walkers, so dual SC or BL looks good.

Without farseer support though, SL + SC is great.

Seems like SL/BL or SL/StarCannon is the most popular around here.

Lets say I have enough lances. Which is better? SL/StarCannon or SL/SL? Opinions?

Im mopping the floor with straight up Star Cannons. I put a Scatter + Missile on ONE of the 5.

 Jancoran wrote:
Im mopping the floor with straight up Star Cannons. I put a Scatter + Missile on ONE of the 5.

2xSC is statistically inferior to SL/SC. The only thing in the game that takes less wound from SL/SC is a 2+ model without at least a 4+ cover/invuln save. The difference versus Terminators (2+/5++) is .08 wounds per turn, for straight 2+ no invuln/cover is .37 wounds per turn. For everything else, SL/SC is either tied or better. I also don't like the idea of having 1 model in a unit with a different ideal target than the rest of the unit, unless you mean you're going 3/1/1.

As for the earlier option of doubling up and giving Guide, that just means you can guide one less unit that can't get any twin-linking at all. From an efficiency standpoint there should be something else in your army that's better served with Guide.

Quark wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Im mopping the floor with straight up Star Cannons. I put a Scatter + Missile on ONE of the 5.

2xSC is statistically inferior to SL/SC. The only thing in the game that takes less wound from SL/SC is a 2+ model without at least a 4+ cover/invuln save. The difference versus Terminators (2+/5++) is .08 wounds per turn, for straight 2+ no invuln/cover is .37 wounds per turn. For everything else, SL/SC is either tied or better. I also don't like the idea of having 1 model in a unit with a different ideal target than the rest of the unit, unless you mean you're going 3/1/1.

As for the earlier option of doubling up and giving Guide, that just means you can guide one less unit that can't get any twin-linking at all. From an efficiency standpoint there should be something else in your army that's better served with Guide.

Or Prescience. A list with two farseers can throw down both Guide and Prescience, Guide to anything within 24" and Prescience to anything within 12". That's four units a turn that can get twin-linking. Of course, if you already have units like WRJBs that come stock with twin-linked weapons, you don't need any more boosting.

Quark wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Im mopping the floor with straight up Star Cannons. I put a Scatter + Missile on ONE of the 5.

2xSC is statistically inferior to SL/SC. .

That averages just over two unsaved wounds against MEQ. I'm not really seeing why that's better. Worse against TEQ.

4 StarCannons does about the same (in fact VERY close), but with a higher ceiling with less variation and a higher threat profile against TEQ by a long ways.

Now against a horde, I can't argue. But I think a blankety statement here isn't warranted.

 Jancoran wrote:

Quark wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Im mopping the floor with straight up Star Cannons. I put a Scatter + Missile on ONE of the 5.

2xSC is statistically inferior to SL/SC. .

That averages just over two unsaved wounds against MEQ. I'm not really seeing why that's better. Worse against TEQ.

4 StarCannons does about the same (in fact VERY close), but with a higher ceiling with less variation and a higher threat profile against TEQ by a long ways.

Now against a horde, I can't argue. But I think a blankety statement here isn't warranted.

Earlier numbers show you only lose .12 wounds per turn as SL/SC versus SC/SC. As for variation, you got me curious. Assuming I got my numbers right (I'm not exactly a binomial distribution wizard), this is versus Terminators, how many unsaved wounds:

SC/SC:
At least 1: 84%
At least 2: 47%
At least 3: 15%

SL/SL:
At least 1: 54%
At least 2: 16%
At least 3: hah! (3%)

SL/SC:
At least 1: 80%
At least 2: 39%
At least 3: 10%

If you think the sweet spot is 2 unsaved wounds, SL/SC is giving up 8% then. I'm willing to take that 8% to gain wounds versus every non-2+ situation in the game, and every in-cover situation in the game. The one place SC/SC truly shines over SL/SC is a 2+ armour save that has no invuln and no cover, which just isn't common enough to account for.

I disagree. Paladins and other such armies are not only common enough to account for but Sanguinary Guard, Mephistons ridiculous toughness that makes MEQ numbers irrelevant, Terminators, and a HOST of others are of equal concern.

So unfortunately I cannot agree that a blanket statement makes sense. You're ignoring far too many things with it.

if there's a farseer in the list already (and the OP has two), twin-link dual SC with guide.

The rest of the list is either already TL (due to SL) or doesnt benefit as much

Otherwise, SL/SC.