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Has there been any instance in the Fiction of the Tau Empire allying with an Eldar Craftworld or a Space Marine Chapter?

For some reason I want to say the Tau and a Space Marine Chapter fought together against either Tyranids or Chaos. Think they fought each other after though...

To be frank, i never understood why they were Battle Brothers from a fluff perspective. Allies of Convenience sure, but Battle Brothers? Seems off but then I'm not up to date on Tau lore.

Not sure about Space Marines, but I'm pretty sure the only instances of Eldar and Tau interaction revolved around them trying to kill each other. The fluff suggests the Tau don't even know the difference between Dark Eldar, Corsairs and Craftworld Eldar.

no idea about an Eldar alliance - the BB thing is there probably because the Eldar (partially) respect the Tau for not being (completely) arrogant xenos in the galaxy and the fact that they churn out tech on par with theirs.

but space marines? WAAAARRRRDD!!!!!

GA

There was something somewhere about how the Ultramarines and Tau allied to fight against necrons that had suddenly awoken on the planet they were fighting over. The Ultramarine in charge let the Tau off of the planet before launching exterminatus. I think it was in the current Tau codex, but I don't have that on hand.

Someone may feel s/he is an "ally" of the Eldar , but they seem to give a about everybodies definition of "alliance".
To them, the rest of the Galaxy are pieces in a game, to be used, to be steered.

Space Marines may honor a temporary cease-fire. At best, Space Marines adapt their target priority for a while.
A close alliance, becoming "battle brothers" , shouldn't exist beyond the organization they subscribed to, as loyalists the IoM for example.

Battle Brothers in the tabletop can squad up with each other. Presumably, then, they should be able to squad up with each other in the fluff. In regards to the Tau, I am unaware of this ever happening in any fluff piece anywhere.

Admittingly, this is the case with most other non-Imperium battle brothers too, so I guess in some cases fluff is ignored for the sake of non-Imperium factions having some battle brothers SOMEWHERE, but it still gets very odd and silly, IMHO.

In the case of Tau with Eldar, that probably comes from an Eldrad Uthran quote where he says that he sees great potential in the Tau and an urge to protect them. Well, at least that lets you imagine the possibility of them being battle brothers, I suppose, though story writers seem to never want to touch the idea of allies with a ten foot pole in most cases.

Too bad cause one could probably make some hilarious yet grim dark Eldar teamed with Dark Eldar battle brother stories if they wanted to.

Yeah, I wouldn't take the allies chart too seriously. It also says that Craftworld Eldar and Dark Eldar are Battle Brothers, and that Templars prefer fighting alongside xenos over Sister.

I think it takes more of a gameplay and stylistic view rather than a fluff perspective.

I was always under the impression that the Tau and Space Marines being placed as Battle Brothers stems not so much from their closeness in ideology, but in combat doctrine. The Tau have (fluffwise) a very mobile, hold-no-ground style of fighting that closely resembles the fluid tactics employed by nomadic peoples in history. (The Comanches, for example.) This meshes very well with the spearhead, surgical strike mentality of the Space Marines, which means that when they do appear on the battlefield together, they are able to operate in sync better than they are with people that they might be closer to culturally.

That was just my own thought on the matter, others have differing opinions. (Of varying levels of cynicism and invective. )

 Troike wrote:
Yeah, I wouldn't take the allies chart too seriously. It also says that Craftworld Eldar and Dark Eldar are Battle Brothers, and that Templars prefer fighting alongside xenos over Sister.

I think it takes more of a gameplay and stylistic view rather than a fluff perspective.

Eldar allied with Dark Eldar technically kinda happens in the Fluff, although before the allies matrix, there was an entirely separate playable army for it (Eldar Corsairs). So it at least has precedence and it actually is believeable as long as you don't assume it to apply to EVERY Eldar and Dark Eldar. Although horribly touched on by novel writers, Dark Eldar and Eldar really don't have mutually exclusive lifestyles and are capable of getting along (which is why the Corsair army can exist), and one of the Harlequins' stated goals is to allow Dark Eldar and Eldar to unite again without necessarily changing each of their lifestyles (and also recruit from both factions). Presumably out there are quite a few Eldar who don't particularly mind the Dark Eldars' "evil" acts as long as it's not done to other Eldar (whom most Dark Eldar avoid anyways either for practical reasons or because I'm not sure torturing an Eldar counts for Dark Eldars feeding Slaanesh, since Slaanesh already owns them) and some Dark Eldar are willing to team up with and get along with Eldar as long as they don't get too snippy and morally-anal about things. Both Eldar and Dark Eldar are "in the same (sinking) boat", too, so they theretically could emphathize with each other since they both are against Slaanesh (and this is probably the only case where a Dark Eldar could emphasize with anything, really).

...not that this is ever reflected in any novel or story,, but the general setting fluff allows for and actually directly touches on it (Corsair army, harlequins), at least.

A lot of the Marine-specific alliances are just dumb when you compare specific Marine chapter alliances with Imperium forces to non Imperium forces. The Black Templar being a big example but you can find it in the other Space Marine chapters like Grey Knights too. Space Wolfs and Dark Angels might hate each other from a rival perspective but they don't really distrust each other to the point where they'd keep "one eye open" against each other and allow themselves to be distracted just because they're near each other. Yes, factions of the Imperium don't always get along, but when they start getting along with Xenos and nonImperium forces more than Imperium forces, there's a fluff problem.

 cowmonaut wrote:
To be frank, i never understood why they were Battle Brothers from a fluff perspective. Allies of Convenience sure, but Battle Brothers? Seems off but then I'm not up to date on Tau lore.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Battle Brothers in the tabletop can squad up with each other. Presumably, then, they should be able to squad up with each other in the fluff. In regards to the Tau, I am unaware of this ever happening in any fluff piece anywhere.

This specifically happens in the novel 'Fire warrior'

A librarian see's the future and suggests that his chapter master/captain/ whatever it was seek out a specific fire warrior because he is pivotal in routing some chaos force on the world. The astartes are hesistant at first, but out of respect for the now dead librarian they ceede his suggestion and form an alliance of sorts. He spends a chapter or two footslogging along with the squad of marines.

 davou wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
Battle Brothers in the tabletop can squad up with each other. Presumably, then, they should be able to squad up with each other in the fluff. In regards to the Tau, I am unaware of this ever happening in any fluff piece anywhere.

This specifically happens in the novel 'Fire warrior'

A librarian see's the future and suggests that his chapter master/captain/ whatever it was seek out a specific fire warrior because he is pivotal in routing some chaos force on the world. The astartes are hesistant at first, but out of respect for the now dead librarian they ceede his suggestion and form an alliance of sorts. He spends a chapter or two footslogging along with the squad of marines.

Oh. Well, I guess that settles that, then.

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Troike wrote:
Yeah, I wouldn't take the allies chart too seriously. It also says that Craftworld Eldar and Dark Eldar are Battle Brothers, and that Templars prefer fighting alongside xenos over Sister.

I think it takes more of a gameplay and stylistic view rather than a fluff perspective.

Eldar allied with Dark Eldar technically kinda happens in the Fluff, although before the allies matrix, there was an entirely separate playable army for it (Eldar Corsairs). So it at least has precedence and it actually is believeable as long as you don't assume it to apply to EVERY Eldar and Dark Eldar. Although horribly touched on by novel writers, Dark Eldar and Eldar really don't have mutually exclusive lifestyles and are capable of getting along (which is why the Corsair army can exist), and one of the Harlequins' stated goals is to allow Dark Eldar and Eldar to unite again without necessarily changing each of their lifestyles (and also recruit from both factions). Presumably out there are quite a few Eldar who don't particularly mind the Dark Eldars' "evil" acts as long as it's not done to other Eldar (whom most Dark Eldar avoid anyways either for practical reasons or because I'm not sure torturing an Eldar counts for Dark Eldars feeding Slaanesh, since Slaanesh already owns them) and some Dark Eldar are willing to team up with and get along with Eldar as long as they don't get too snippy and morally-anal about things. Both Eldar and Dark Eldar are "in the same (sinking) boat", too, so they theretically could emphathize with each other since they both are against Slaanesh (and this is probably the only case where a Dark Eldar could emphasize with anything, really).

...not that this is ever reflected in any novel or story,, but the general setting fluff allows for and actually directly touches on it (Corsair army, harlequins), at least.

You make some valid points, but I'd still put them as allies of convinience rather than battle brothers, from a fluff perspective.

Makes kinda as much sense as Tau and Daemons being able to ally.

The alliance ratings in the BRB don't just reflect whether they like each other but also how well they can work together if the situation forces them to. Combat doctrines, equipment, general willingness to cooperate.

SoB have quite similar combat doctrines as marines but their only battlebrothers are IG. The IG see them as messengers of the Emperor and integrate themself around SoB squads without hesitation, where marines are a bit more standoffish. Marines don't worship the Emperor in the same way which can cause some tension, even if both forces respect each other as warriors.

Tau and marines? The battles they've fought has at least made them aware that the others are honorable warriors - Calgar allowed Tau to evacuate before calling Exterminatus on an infested world, and the Tau have allowed imperial forces to retreat instead of harrying them all the way home. Their command systems and mobile combat styles also seem to go well together, and both sides are professional soldiers who will do the mission regardless of who the guy at their side is.

Eldar and Dark Eldar? They follow the old saying "me against my brother, me and my brother against our cousin, me and my cousin against the stranger". They have different lifestyles and values but both are proudly Eldar - when lesser races make trouble both will immediately turn on them without any thought of what they were just arguing about.

To be honest I could see the Tau being Battle Brothers moreso with Imperial Guard then Space Marines, what with the Human Auxilaries and all.

 gmaleron wrote:
To be honest I could see the Tau being Battle Brothers moreso with Imperial Guard then Space Marines, what with the Human Auxilaries and all.

From what I've read the only real difference between the Imperium and the Tau empire in regards to the treating of human soldiers is Tau will tell the renegade IG to retreat when they take 50% to 75% casualties, instead of the Imperium telling them to all die there and having the commisariat blow their brains out if they don't.

Tau and ultras seem to put diffrences aside and team up every time a threat to them both shows up, then go back to their own fights after shaking hands and giving each other a 5 minute "get back to your side" timer.

2 recorded times, against necrons and against nids. other times are suggested but not outright stated.

Exactly - they new core rulebook has this and also the Ultramarines launching a new assault into the Tau Empire.

The Astartes / Tau "Alliance" in every fluff piece I have ever read - Codex or BL consists of them agreeing not to try and kill each other whilst there is another more dangerous enemy. They can work together well but so can many other forces.

The Ultramarines and every other Chapter are quite happy (and its an integral part of their indoctrination) to kill the alien unless there is a good reason not to.

The Allies Matrix is a good idea, poorly executed in terms of integrity with the actual universe background..........

 BoomWolf wrote:
Tau and ultras seem to put diffrences aside and team up every time a threat to them both shows up, then go back to their own fights after shaking hands and giving each other a 5 minute "get back to your side" timer.

2 recorded times, against necrons and against nids. other times are suggested but not outright stated.

Does Cato Sicarius serve as Ultramarine?
Did he , amongst others, campaign against Tau?

'putting differences aside' isn't the same as 'brothers in arms'. IMHO.

There's some evidence that the Eldar created the Tau, or at the very least gave them the Ethereals or uplifted them.

 1hadhq wrote:
'putting differences aside' isn't the same as 'brothers in arms'. IMHO.

Maybe not, but the alliance table isn't just about what they think about the other party. It's also about how well they can work together when they have to, and Tau+ Marines actually go together very well. They have a compatible fast attack combat style, both have advanced command systems and they both have professional soldiers who won't care about the guy on the right (left) as long as he's moving toward the same objective.

For the Eldar / Dark Eldar divide, you have to remember that, they may be dirty godless hippies, but Dark Eldar are still Eldar. No other faction - or race - is nearly so great.

 Troike wrote:
You make some valid points, but I'd still put them as allies of convinience rather than battle brothers, from a fluff perspective.

One major problem of hypothetically making Dark Eldar and Eldar only be allies of convenience instead of battle brothers is that you'd then be insinuating that Eldar and Dark Eldar's willingness to team up with each other is equal to, instead of greater than, their willingness to team up with other Allies of Convenience they may have. And that's just silly. Eldar and Dark Eldar are still eldar and will tolerate each other much more than other factions, so they kinda need to have Battle Brother status in order to portray that the relationship is one step above those primitive monkeighs.

And again, there's already an official (well, forgeworld) army that teams Eldar up with Dark Eldar. I'd call that a LOT more valid point than just allies of convenience.

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Troike wrote:
You make some valid points, but I'd still put them as allies of convinience rather than battle brothers, from a fluff perspective.

One major problem of hypothetically making Dark Eldar and Eldar only be allies of convenience instead of battle brothers is that you'd then be insinuating that Eldar and Dark Eldar's willingness to team up with each other is equal to, instead of greater than, their willingness to team up with other Allies of Convenience they may have. And that's just silly. Eldar and Dark Eldar are still eldar and will tolerate each other much more than other factions, so they kinda need to have Battle Brother status in order to portray that the relationship is one step above those primitive monkeighs.

And again, there's already an official (well, forgeworld) army that teams Eldar up with Dark Eldar. I'd call that a LOT more valid point than just allies of convenience.

But on the flipside of that, you've got them liking them so much that they're willing to exchange leaders and share abilities. I don't think that a squad of Craftworld Eldar would be all that willing to have a Haemonculus leading them. Converesly, a Farseer isn't going to mesh well with a squad of Wyches.

And I don't think I agree that they would like eachother over other allies of convinience. I know that some of the newer fluff tries to establishes bridges between the two in the form of Harlequins and stuff, but you're downplaying the fact that the two are completely at odds idealogically. The Dark Eldar are literally what ruined the old Eldar Empire. They are what the Craftworld Eldar fled from. They are what the Craftworld Eldar actively try to avoid becoming.

For the Eldar, it's always seemed to me to be something along the lines of this is my brother, he may be the polar opposite of me, we may rarely see eye to eye, and we may butt heads often but he is still my brother at the end of the day and god forbid if some else tries to feth with him.

Me and my brother against my cousins, me and my cousins against the village, me and my village against the tribe

The Tau having tons of battle brothers is indicative of their willingness to cooperate with other races, and other races willingness to exploit that naivety.

 King Pariah wrote:
For the Eldar, it's always seemed to me to be something along the lines of this is my brother, he may be the polar opposite of me, we may rarely see eye to eye, and we may butt heads often but he is still my brother at the end of the day and god forbid if some else tries to feth with him.

Yes, but did your brother utterly ruin your civilisation and cause your soul to condemned to go to an evil, hungry god?