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Before I go out and throw some money at them I want to know how they do on the table...
I don't have the 6th edition CSM codex and I was wondering if they still have the
Feel no pain 4+ special rule?
Any notes, tips or tricks on there uses/strengths/weaknesses are appreciated. Thanks

3+ armor, feel no pain (which is 5+ in 6th edition) t5, poisoned weapons, can take 2 special weapons. They're a good unit

In a word..... NO

They still have feel no pain but a 5+ and their toughness is awesome plus any unit charging them doesn't get bonus attacks for charging.

They are good don't get me wrong but I've found their cost/effectiveness ratio is not good enough.

This is only my opinion obviously but I have found all troops(and elites used as troops) but cultists are too pricey in the CSM dex.

They're arguably some of the best troops in the game

Yeah they are good but do you really think they are one of the best in relation to their cost?

Yea, they're insanely durable

Also the fact that you have to take a crappy champion of nurgle or Typhus(who is also not worth the points) just to activate them as troops.

I find the Daemon prince with black mace a must in solo CSM lists and sorcerers are too good to pass up so why would you drop one to get one of those?

Even if you take them as elites its pointless as if your going to have a troop like unit they should be troops as a non scoring unit is a poor choice when 3 of the 6 games are multi objective games.

On the competitive tournament circuit over here you never see them(Or straight CSM army's at all much really) finishing all that high as they are not cost effective enough.

Hmmm I see.There one of those "great on paper" "bad in plan" units... I don't want to pass them up though... Him we'll see. Thanks for the mixed opinions, some say their grey and the others the opposite... And what's wrong with the regular marines Helston?


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And also Typhus. I've heard his REALLY good. Well back in 5th anyway

Proxy the models in a few games to see how you find them.
I've always found them to be amazing. It takes a huge amount of fire to take them down due to their durability and they can dish out the pain in return.

Weaker, Not Fearless on their own, Pricey with upgrades....

I was really looking forward to the Codex being released.
I wanted to do loads of chaos marines and terminators but after playing with them extensively against many different army's only to come to the conclusion they are overpriced for what they are and on top of that they, the marines who have been battling for years on countless planets fighting all manner of foe beside great daemons but even after all of that they run away at the slightest notion of death.

The whole codex really isn't up to scratch IMO on a competitive level really apart from DP's with the black mace, Sorcerers, Helldrakes, Cultists and Oblitz and I don't want to use them but its use them or get bummed by competitive lists from other army's.


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Typhus is all right now I guess but for the price he's a bit meh.

Plus as I said DP's are better and sorcerers are better and cheaper.

I like to think of the codex as being half and half with the Daemon dex as Daemons are more well rounded and flexible so it helps level out the CSM one.

 Helston wrote:
Weaker, Not Fearless on their own, Pricey with upgrades....

I was really looking forward to the Codex being released.
I wanted to do loads of chaos marines and terminators but after playing with them extensively against many different army's only to come to the conclusion they are overpriced for what they are and on top of that they, the marines who have been battling for years on countless planets fighting all manner of foe beside great daemons but even after all of that they run away at the slightest notion of death.

The whole codex really isn't up to scratch IMO on a competitive level really apart from DP's with the black mace, Sorcerers, Helldrakes, Cultists and Oblitz and I don't want to use them but its use them or get bummed by competitive lists from other army's.

Ummm... PM are fearless on their own. They are one of the cheaper troop choices in the dex for what they do. You said you have to take a poor choice in a champion to make them troops? A Chaos Lord with MoN, PF, SoC, Bike and a unit of Nurgle Spawn is not only a great unit, but cheap and the Lord is cheap and an awesome HQ. Plus he makes the PM troops. I really don't see any of your points as being valid. Alf got things pretty much dead on in the first reply.

Plague Marines are one of the best troop choices in the codex, they are not worth it as an Elites selection but taking a Nurgle Lord on bike is so good I see no reason not to take some PM as troops too.

Cloudrider asked what was wrong with the regular CSM's

Bikers Champs blow the big one IMO and spawns are just expensive wounds for him.

If he gets in a challenge with anyone good he is dead with no eternal warrior and It's really not worth paying 25pts for the SoC as he can be ID'd too easily.

Now look at what a DP with the black mace could do....

As I've said already PM's are good but IMO they are too costly for what they do.

Give me plague bearers any day!

Been using Plagues since day 1, and they've performed unholy miracles for me.
Tough to drop, solid firepower options, basically the best plasma-fielding units in the game due to their unlikeliness to blow themselves up. Their durability + meltaguns/meltabomb lets them drop armour; poisoned CCW, plasma guns and melta bombs lets them drop MCs; bolters are fantastic vs xenos; flamers go SWOOSH. Versatility, durability, and cool factor all combine to make them worth their cost in my experience. Before I used rhinos I've had units of 'em (8 seems to be the magic number, not bankrupting you but enough to absorb all kinds of punishment) footslog across the board, under fire from turn 1, make it in to contest and control objectives and nail linebreaker on turn 5. Since my plague 'rines added a couple of rhinos to their kit, not only can they get where they need to be damn near instantly, dirge casters let them charge with impunity (something others can't do to them due to their plague grenades).

Worth it, no questions asked. After every match I ask myself if each unit performed as required, lived up to expectations, and whether it ultimately deserves its place in my list.
Every. Single. Time. Plagues have made it to the top of the "Oh hells yeah" column.

Once again I'm not saying they cant work because they can.
What I'm trying to get across is that they are costly and need a HQ slot.

For what you spend on the unit with melta bombs, plasma guns, rhino, Dirge caster...... you could get so much more with other armys.

195 points for a beefed Tervigon and with 10 Gaunts its scoring.

Id like to see you get any AV12 across the board at the tournaments I play at!
My Dakka Flyrants would have them down straight away and by the time you get to my Tervigon he will have 20+ gaunts with him with poison also.

IMO they cost too much and need a HQ slot to be troops so in a 1999pt or under game they just aren't all that worth it

I know what Helston is trying to say, given the option of a Nurgle lord or a Daemon Prince then most people would have to seriously mull it over.

I've just retired MY CSM list for the time being as I was getting bored playing with it, but I've played both with ordinary CSM's (sometimes with the mark, other times without) and Plague Marines and the Plague Marines have always ticked all of the boxes for me.

yes its possible to mix dex's and use Daemons as troops, but that requires ANOTHER daemon prince.

I think its very situational, what is the OP considering running as an army, lets see a list and give that some thought before we slate a particular part of it?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/537911.page

I'm sorry helston, but I think you are completely and utterly wrong.

PM are the best troops in the CSM dex, hands down. They can take two special weapons, are tough enough to footslog and are very hard to kill. They are nearly as good as KB in combat due to their poison. The MoN lord is always a good choice for your HQ. Hence there really isn't a tax, especially since he's so cheap. The only comparably effective troop to PMs are NMs, but the MoS lord is a worst choice since he's already init 5 and so init 6 makes little difference.

I run my PM squads with 2 plasma and 1 combi plasma, 6 bodies. This is 186 points or something close. I run a gunline army (like most armies nowadays), and take either 2 or 3 squads. One of these has the lord with Brand.
The sheer amount of plasma and toughness present on the board makes them hard to shift, able to take assaults and deadly within rapid fire range.

You've said many times how you think they're not value for points. What would you consider the best troop choice in the chaos codex then?

I play against Plague Marines all the time and let me tell you they are absolutely worth the points. Our escalation league was completely dominated by the guy who ran them with lots of plasma. His army was so simple but nobody had an answer because they just don't die. Not only durable and a great gunline unit to spearhead an army but they may be the best ranged unit in the game in close combat. And they completely dominate space marine armies and what 30-40% of the 40k world plays some type of them. His simple list that won our league was something like plague marines, dreadnought, vindicator, and 2 hell drakes at 2k points

That's what I was getting at Lunarman. I don't think any are worth the points except maybe cultists just as they are so cheap.

I will be running Daemon's with CSM allies from now on with Either DP with the BM or a Sorcerer in Terminator Armour with a unit of deep striking oblitz with 1 unit of 10 cultists and a Helldrake tagged onto Fateweaver(or LoC), plague bearers, horrors and daemon princes as Heavys.

I play Nid's and at 2000pts I would have 3 Tervigon's so I would stay away from foot sloggers and poop, poop, poop.

Fly Dakkaflyrants forward turn two when all my gak drops in.
Zoans on the Vindi, Dakkafex behind the dreadnaught or Helldrakes, Doom in the middle of troops, Gargoyles can CC anyone I want.

I play Plagues a lot and they may be tough and have poison but my 5pt gaunts are bad ass in cc when I heavily out number them.

As I've said many, many times Plagues do work but IMO they are not cost effective enough to be worth it.

Another weigh in with AngelusMortis, Laughingcarp, OverwatchCNC, lunarman and Dalymiddleboro.

PMs are the best troop in the CSM.

a. Unlocking them with a biker Lord as OverWCNC suggested is great, and I know as I've had to *fight* that beastie. A BlackMace DP is good, too.
b. Helston, you go back to the higher 'price' in points as a negative. It's worth it.


As best Troops (scoring unit) in 40k, I rate PMs right up with Grey Hunters and now Dire Avengers and ethereal buffed Fire Warriors (in that order). I have used each one in turn all this year, including PMs since the 6e CSM codex came out. I play all these armies, and against most (few tau players).

Sorry, bud, but you're quite in the minority here.

- - - - - -
Cloudrider:
Run crews of 7 or 8, dual special guns, plasmaguns and meltas. Skip any upgrades on the Asp. Champion. Rhino for each or none. Three units like this are no fun to face. I've run them and faced them, with regularity.

Honestly I do see what your saying but all a troops job is is to score on an objective so you don't need expensive plague marines just to capture an objective when a unit of cultists,plague bearers or horrors can do the same at a fraction of the price and the Daemons can deep strike so no need for rhinos or similar.

If the rest of your list is strong enough and you have units to do all other jobs then if used correctly you can smash the gak out of your opponent before they get a look in.

IMO points are better spent on pure filth rather than what appears to be a great troop choice but at the price of something that will do a lot more damage.

 Helston wrote:
Honestly I do see what your saying but all a troops job is is to score on an objective so you don't need expensive plague marines just to capture an objective when a unit of cultists,plague bearers or horrors can do the same at a fraction of the price and the Daemons can deep strike so no need for rhinos or similar.

If the rest of your list is strong enough and you have units to do all other jobs then if used correctly you can smash the gak out of your opponent before they get a look in.

IMO points are better spent on pure filth rather than what appears to be a great troop choice but at the price of something that will do a lot more damage.

Oh, but marines have a different job than 5 Plague Bearers. Sure, if it is just baby-sitting an objective, and nothing else, go with PBearers; I whole-heartedly agree on that.

But that's not what PMs do. Plague Bearers and Plague Marines are Apples & Oranges. No power armored unit is *just* good for objectives, or just for punching or shooting. More or less, by definition, power armored goons in 40k are best at nothing, but pretty good at most things.


1. Grey Hunters - Just a hair off the guns that Dire Avengers have, because they lack Rending. Range is the same (given what Battle Focus can do) , but then again, elves now can duck back into LOS-blocking. Space Vikings have to stay where they stood and shot. Counter Attack, MotW, two Special guns per ten, WolfGuard nannies. Best Troop choice in the game.
2. Dire Avengers - With Move and Battle Focus with Rending goodness, they're more versatile than FWs, just as squishy, but pretty much holding #2 for best shooting of a Troop choice. Not shabby in h2h either
3. Plague Marines - Just as good guns as SW. Slower in h2h versus MEqs, so that's a minus, but T5, FnP and Fearless are major buffs. Cost a bit more, sure. Excellent at tar-pitting.
4. Shooting- Tau FireWarriors (again, ethereal buffed) are the Kings. So smacking-hard at range, number one at Fire Power for troops. High STR gun and best range. Not good at much else, but in a Shooting Edition like 6th, *does* one need to good at "Much Else" ?

Plague Bearers - No guns. Same Nurgle toughness as PM, but sorely lacking the 3+ Save. Great tar-pitting.

PM & PB just do not have the same applications. So, yeah, I'd go with, and have used Plague Bearers for a Deep Strike, hide on an objective use. But, when I use PMs, it's for tactical application of their variety of uses, shooting, h2h, tar-pitting & obj-squatting. PBs don't have much beyond tar-pitting and squatting.

Actually I'd like to provide a counter point on advocating deepstrike so much. It is helpful yes, but it isn't perfect. Any army with a decent amount of intercept (Tau) can ruin deepstrike tactics and such an enterance comes at its own risks. I wouldn't call that as great as you believe.

From what I have noticed. The holding objectives part is a bonus. Why people like Plage Marines is you don't have to spend too much on useless units. Sure, cultists are great and cheap. But they are practically worthless for anything but being meatshields or objective holders in the back. Chaos suffers from a mediocre to sub-par troops selection and it seems most players (me included) prefer to shove as few points into the bottom as possible before hopping into higher points. Now then, Plague Marines as elites aren't that useful. Sure they are tough, but you have to get PMs on top of already the mandatory 2 troops. Instead, you can grab 2 small units of plage marines that both can wield plasma that will almost never kill the wielder!

Personally, PM are good. Those, Noise Marines, and Cultists are what I consider to be our good troops.

On a side note, I personally don't feel the DP is really worth it. For about 150 points you get a toughness 5 monster with an invuln of 5 and no armour save. Yeah you can pay for wings, armour, and a mace, but it escelates to such a preposterously high price it is madness. Finally, whilst it can be devastating, it can die from S10 and lacks good adhesion with the rest of the CSM codex. Now if you bring a chaos daemon group and threw in a GD and DP then I would concur with you. 3 FMC is a great combo as it makes the enemy get a threat overload. One by itself though? It becomes a blatant target. Then again, my environment loves their plasma, snipers, and S10 guns (tau hammers and IG guns) which might not help much.

i never thought anyone would dare shoot holes in the majesty that is a plague marine, they suck at attacking but once they plop down on an objective (and in 6th most missions are objective based) they wont move until somepony brings in a vindicator or other heavy gun, ive seen 6 get charged by 20 boyz on turn 3 and the combat was still goin turn 6 resulting in the objective still under chaos control. i prefer to kill of scoring units and prevent my opponent scoreing but when faced with plague marines i ignore them if they take a objective as they are too much effort to shift

DP are solo units who try to wage war on their own as nothing will keep up with them and theyre too expensive to bring more than one, and game after game they walk off the battlefeild shot to peices by bolterfire

So they are good at defending objectives,
Get a 3+ then 4+ save
Aren't GREAT at attacking
And are expensive?

Buy 3 boxes of 10 CSM or just find 30 CSM on ebay. Do not buy the plague marine kit. If you buy the csm kit then you get to have Icons of X, flamers, meltaguns, plasmaguns, etc.. Give them 2 plasma guns per 10 csm. 1 will be a champ, give him the power fist but also kit bash it with a detachable power sword by paper clip pinning it into his power fist palm. You can then cut the tip of the power sword to imitate the plague champion.

Prime them black. Base coat green only certain details such as the edge and metal rims. Highlight the base coat lines with a brighter yellow green so that it looks like neon green on black. Now you have plague marines that look like they glow in the dark. Latter on, if you choose to use noise marines, sprinkle base coat pink on them to make it look like hot pink splashes. Use a black light and now they look like they belong in a rave.

Plague marines are incredibly great for new csm players.

Yes they get their 3+ armor save, then a 5+ FNP save if are hit with ap3. Only a Strength 10 weapon or weapon with Instant Death property can deny their FNP save
They are better than KB at attacking. Their blight grenades act as both defensive and offensive grenades. They have base attack 1, get +1 from bolt pistol and ccw, and can get +1 more from a charge. Then they wound even high toughness MC on a 4+ due to poison.

A CSM is suppose to cost 13pts (cant since the aspiring champion tax) so its 15pts for no ccw and no fearless. For 9 more pts which is roughly 2/3 another marine, you get T5, blight grenades, plague knife, FNP, and Fearless. They are a step between the regular Marine and Terminator.