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Hi, what does everyone think the Tyranids biggest weakness is in terms of races? Grey Knights? Space Wolves or Tau, maybe?

Dark Eldar.

Lack of eternal warrior is a pretty big killer.
While its only force weapons and other such things that can drop the MC's, basic missile instant death warriors.

Lack on anti-tank is another one.
They dont have the ability to throw such a weapon into a unit, they need to run a specialised unit for the job instead.
Which once theres no armour left, pretty much makes the unit useless.

Lack of anti-flyer.
Hive guard can remove jink saves, but hitting a flyer is still an issue.
Failing that, its a case of just firing a sheer volume of shots at them and hoping for the best.

Crowded elites slot.
Seems weird, but thropes, ymgarl and hive guard are all great units, but all elite choices.
Throw in deathleaper, lictors and venomthropes and things are getting pretty crowded.
Zoans and hives are the main anti-tank in the army, so by taking another solid unit like ymgarls, your reducing your own firepower.

Necrons: 2 armies of massive number one of which is practically immortal AND has nothing the tyranids want

Hive guard sharing a slot with so many other options when hive guard are already pretty much a requirement due to their role in anti tank is pretty frustrating, that and the fact pyro ores exist at all.

We don't really use flyers at my house so lack of sky fire is a non issue

Are we talking fluff, or in-game? Fluff its Necrons, as they just avoid eachother. Or, the Inquisition, for all the Exterminatus that happens.

In game: Dark Eldar. Tau are pretty annoying, but not on a Dark Eldar level. GK aren't really that bad anymore, (in 5th they killed us) and certain Space Wolf builds are murder.

Dark Eldar? Havent seen much of that, what units are really bad for tyranids (u dont have to be too specific)

kingboo421 wrote:
Dark Eldar? Havent seen much of that, what units are really bad for tyranids (u dont have to be too specific)

A ton of DE units have poisoned guns, and that murders our MCs. Especially the massive ROF on Venom Cannons and such, our Tervigons and Flyrants (if grounded) die like Marines.

Uh oh, are there many (if any) ways to counter that do you think?

kingboo421 wrote:
Uh oh, are there many (if any) ways to counter that do you think?

If you're tailoring for DE its possible, but our most effective TAC builds suffer vs them, and countering reduces our overall effectiveness. The biggest priority honestly is to get first turn, and then destroy the Venoms ASAP, as well as Raiders. Their infantry dies easily to Biovores and such, but their vehicles put out unholy firepower.

 Jackal wrote:
Lack of eternal warrior is a pretty big killer.
While its only force weapons and other such things that can drop the MC's, basic missile instant death warriors.

Lack on anti-tank is another one.
They dont have the ability to throw such a weapon into a unit, they need to run a specialised unit for the job instead.
Which once theres no armour left, pretty much makes the unit useless.

Lack of anti-flyer.
Hive guard can remove jink saves, but hitting a flyer is still an issue.
Failing that, its a case of just firing a sheer volume of shots at them and hoping for the best.

Crowded elites slot.
Seems weird, but thropes, ymgarl and hive guard are all great units, but all elite choices.
Throw in deathleaper, lictors and venomthropes and things are getting pretty crowded.
Zoans and hives are the main anti-tank in the army, so by taking another solid unit like ymgarls, your reducing your own firepower.

Lack of EW is a problem every army's HQ faces. Nids are less impacted by it than others though as only Force Weapons and other weapons with the Instant Death rule will actually cause ID. However, Nid HQs do have a lack of invulnerable saves which is more of a problem than lack of EW.

Nids don't have a lack of anti-tank. They can deal with AV13 and below just fine from range. With all the MCs running around, AV14 really isn't a problem either, as they can just charge and smash. What Nids have is a lack of ranged AP3 and better, and I dare say there is a reason for that. Strong Melee armies such as Nids and Chaos Daemons simply don't have much access to ranged AP3 (or better). At least Nids have access to absurd amounts of anti-infantry shooting to make up for it. 30 outflanking gaunts with devourers, while pricey and vulnerable to flamers, will pretty much annihilate any infantry unit it runs up on.

Lack of anti-flyer? Not really. I witnessed last night a single Flyrant gun down not one, but two Heldrakes. Dual TL devourers eat up every flyer in the game. Lack of access to the ADL guns is a small bit of an unfairness issue, since for some unknown reason, Tyranids can't pull a trigger

Crowded elite (or Heavy Support, or Fast Attack, or HQ) is a problem just about every army faces. Most Nid Elites are incredibly good and relatively cost efficient, and allowing too many in a single detachment would make the army OP. There are really only 4 elites everybody takes anyway, Hive Guard, Ymgarl Genestealers, Doom, and Zoanthropes.

So while Nids have their share of useless units, the issues you mentioned are not really issues as there are units to deal with all of them or they are issues shared by every other army.

What about a Dakkafex in a pod? yes, it will probably only last a turn, unless you LoS block, but the 12 S6 TL attacks are good on infantry and vehicles

Lack of EW is a problem every army's HQ faces. Nids are less impacted by it than others though as only Force Weapons and other weapons with the Instant Death rule will actually cause ID. However, Nid HQs do have a lack of invulnerable saves which is more of a problem than lack of EW.

Except most 200+ point models have access to EW or atleast, a ++ save.
And i was more inclined to the warriors, since they are great if your throw a prime with them, but missiles really do tear through them.

Nids don't have a lack of anti-tank. They can deal with AV13 and below just fine from range. With all the MCs running around, AV14 really isn't a problem either, as they can just charge and smash. What Nids have is a lack of ranged AP3 and better, and I dare say there is a reason for that. Strong Melee armies such as Nids and Chaos Daemons simply don't have much access to ranged AP3 (or better). At least Nids have access to absurd amounts of anti-infantry shooting to make up for it. 30 outflanking gaunts with devourers, while pricey and vulnerable to flamers, will pretty much annihilate any infantry unit it runs up on.

Range?
You mean 24" and under right?
Im trying to go by an average for armies, since most have something along the lines of a lascannon.
True about the AP issue, that one i really did miss.
Charge and smash with a MC?
Thats nice, but they do tend to draw fire and against the likes of DE and crons they fall too fast to even rely on them making combat.

Lack of anti-flyer? Not really. I witnessed last night a single Flyrant gun down not one, but two Heldrakes. Dual TL devourers eat up every flyer in the game. Lack of access to the ADL guns is a small bit of an unfairness issue, since for some unknown reason, Tyranids can't pull a trigger

Ive witnessed gots killing termies in CC, things happen.
Its not something you come to rely on though as a 100% way of dealing with something.
Would be nice to see the harpy get a turn around and have a use against flyers.

Crowded elite (or Heavy Support, or Fast Attack, or HQ) is a problem just about every army faces. Most Nid Elites are incredibly good and relatively cost efficient, and allowing too many in a single detachment would make the army OP. There are really only 4 elites everybody takes anyway, Hive Guard, Ymgarl Genestealers, Doom, and Zoanthropes.

The problem is, most armies have clear cut options for wach.
Normal armour is hive guard food.
AV14 (which is about and pretty common still) is left for thropes to deal with.
Ymgarls are blenders and can take out most units, and even armour.
Doom is just a multi-use cannon that will blow things up before being nailed by a S8 weapon.
Problem is, all of these units are more than good for nids, but trying to take a balanced selection that benefits you against every army isnt easy.
Ive seen people run 9 hive guard, then sit there staring at a land raider all game, unable to hurt it.

So while Nids have their share of useless units, the issues you mentioned are not really issues as there are units to deal with all of them or they are issues shared by every other army.

There are allways units to deal with things, but how well they can do that differs alot.
You can use hive guard to try and take down a pred, or you can simply use thropes instead, since they will be far more effective.




I guess all i was trying to say is that nids need to rely heavily on certain units to get a job done.
If that unit dies, they can still do it, but will struggle alot more.
Crons, marines, eldar etc all have a way of making a unit multi-role, this is something nids dont do too well at as most units are designed for 1 thing.

But more of a point, gauss and poison are pure evil for nids.
And since 90% of the shots in a DE army are poisoned, you will be losing big monsters quickly.
Gauss can be just as nasty, while tesla tears through little bugs at an alarming rate.

 Jackal wrote:
But more of a point, gauss and poison are pure evil for nids.
And since 90% of the shots in a DE army are poisoned, you will be losing big monsters quickly.
Gauss can be just as nasty, while tesla tears through little bugs at an alarming rate.

Gauss? Nids don't have anything with an AV value, so how do gauss weapons hurt Nids? Now Tesla, that's a different matter. I play Daemons, a tesla heavy Necron army (which is practically all of them) is hard to deal with.

Oh, mathhammer (as much as I hate to reference it) says that 9 hive guard will wreck a LR in 2 turns of shooting providing they don't take any casualties (18 shots, 12 hits, 2 glances). I know that's not something you can rely on, but saying that 9 hive guard are completely helpless against a LR is incorrect.

If rumor holds true, a new dex will be out by the end of the year for Nids, at which point you may have a whole new list of deficiencies and strengths

The problem with nid anti-flier capabilities is that at the very most you can have four sources of skyfire in a double FOC game, and in that case you can't get the very much awesome swarmlord.

But the IG can field 18 vendettas and the Necrons can field 12 Night Scythes and 6 Doom Scythes, while the Chaos Space Marines can field four flying daemon princes, two flying greater daemon allies, and six hell turkeys.

I mean sure you could put up harpies, but vector striking at S5 is beyond useless against flying vehicles.

Tau or Eldar/Dark Eldar (forget which off the top of my head) since we either bring a ton of ap2/3 shots or poison, in that order.

I only faced my tyranid friend before he left once with tau, normally i play orks. He learned the hard way dont go fyrants against Tau rofl. Instant that thing showed its face, it died.

Dark Eldar are consistently my worst match up as Nids.


Though, I think that Necrons and space marines are generally good match ups for Nids, so I guess it evens out in the end.

 Kain wrote:
The problem with nid anti-flier capabilities is that at the very most you can have four sources of skyfire in a double FOC game, and in that case you can't get the very much awesome swarmlord.

But the IG can field 18 vendettas and the Necrons can field 12 Night Scythes and 6 Doom Scythes, while the Chaos Space Marines can field four flying daemon princes, two flying greater daemon allies, and six hell turkeys.

I mean sure you could put up harpies, but vector striking at S5 is beyond useless against flying vehicles.

thats a lot of points for CSM there, 6 turkeys is roughly 1200... 4 dp same again, and greater daemons... again how many more? what are we playing a 5k points game here :(

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The problem with nid anti-flier capabilities is that at the very most you can have four sources of skyfire in a double FOC game, and in that case you can't get the very much awesome swarmlord.

But the IG can field 18 vendettas and the Necrons can field 12 Night Scythes and 6 Doom Scythes, while the Chaos Space Marines can field four flying daemon princes, two flying greater daemon allies, and six hell turkeys.

I mean sure you could put up harpies, but vector striking at S5 is beyond useless against flying vehicles.

thats a lot of points for CSM there, 6 turkeys is roughly 1200... 4 dp same again, and greater daemons... again how many more? what are we playing a 5k points game here :(

Points limits have no place in theorycrafting! Everyone should know if you can't kill 18 Vendettas in a 1500pt game, your army fails at anti air.