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I've been having a horrendous time fighting a good tyranid player at 2k points.

Here's generally what I can expect:

HQ: Swarmlord with 1-3 Tyrant Guard
Flying Hive Tyrant, sometimes shooty, sometimes assault
Elites: Doom of Malantai with Spore pod

Troops: 3 Tervigons, with squads of Termagaunts to make them troops. Tervigons usually come with crushing claws and poison. 1 of the Tervigons outflank with the Hive Tyrant rule

Heavy Support: Trygon prime.

His Swarmlord, Hive Tyrant, and Tervigons usually roll on the Biomancy Psychic table, and somehow usually end up with Iron Arm, and Endurance, and a few other things. This puts them at like T7-T9 most of the game. Once in a while he'll throw in some warriors, Ymgarls, hormaguants, or more Zoanthropes, but that is basically his build.

I've tried everything I can think of. A gun line, drop podding in behind him, etc. Basically i'm looking for some tactics to help me out against these big fellas, and then maybe some unit/weapon advice. If i manage to somehow wipe out the monstrous creatures, all the little swarmy creatures just end up crushing me. He usually flies his Hive Tryant to my deployment (and if i don't have missile launchers i have nothing against him with Skyfire). I've tried scouts, as well as a Devastator squad with missile launchers, and i managed to kill him. But he just drops his cheap (in both senses of the word) Doom of Malantai and wipes out 3 squads (though i just learned last game i can take cover saves from him). It takes and average of 4-6 str 8 shots to kill him, which is often most of my str 8 shots on the table usually. I thought about trying to mitigate his damage somehow, but company banners only let you reroll morale checks, not leadership checks per se. If i put an IC with the squad, sure i save a life or two for his Leadership 10, but then i run the risk of losing a very expensive HQ unit.

My vindicator can't shoot worth squat. I've tried a command squad with all plasma guns in a rhino, but they got focused. Sternguard veterans with their 2+ poison still take an average of 2-3 turns to kill 1 MC. At 250 points, he seems to be winning point for point. I've tried rhinos with TL Lascannons in the back (3 of them), but they just don't put out enough damage. I run some land speeders with Multi-melta's. I usually use 2 Heavy support slots for Whirlwinds to try and keep his guants down to manageable levels. He keeps 1-2 tervigons in the back to hold objectives, and everything else either runs, deepstrikes, flies, or outflanks into my deployment zone. I'm usually so busy with the Doom of Malantai, the Hive Tyrant flyer, and the outflanking Tervigon that the Swarmlord makes it across the board basically unharmed and then just wreaks havoc. I've scoured my book for something I could take him on with, and my conclusion is that there's nothing i could CC him with and live. The only solution is to shoot him.

So i have rhinos, whirlwinds, a vindicator, 2 land speeders, and 2 tactical squads for objectives in the back, and i drop in with a furioso dreadnought, an HQ, and a few jump troopers in the back. Then i proceed to lose. If i can get the furioso dreadnought to live, he does generally well for me because the tervigon is hitting me on a 5+ because i have double his WS. Honestly though i generally kit the dreadnought out with a fragcannon and heavy flamer for the turn 1 shooting to take out the swarms of guants he leaves in the back.

So:
What HQ should i use?

How do i kill the monstrous T7-9 creatures and still have enough templates/firepower leftover for taking on guants?

Tyranids are a tough match up for BA, especially since they took a dip in power in 6th, but reading between the lines, some of the stuff sounds odd.

Firstly, BA don't have access to Skyfire MLs yet.
Rhinos with TL LC in the back? Do you mean Razorbacks?

Broadly, the best advice I can give you is volume of fire. Try Razorbacks (if that is what you meant) with Assault Cannons, not LC as they will be effective against a wider range of targets. TH/SS Termies are brilliant at taking out Tervigons, but make sure you have a delivery method (I would favour a LR Redeemer for the extra TLAC and templates it brings)
Saying your Vindi can't shoot is just not true, but statistics can take time to normalise. Besides one is not even half as good as two!
Why not fit your LS with Ass Cans and HF, that should again boost your damage output for not much extra points.
Equally, if you're struggling with the MCs, try Blood Fists instead on the Furioso, but my preference would be to stick with Talons, that's a good bit of all the crowd control you need right there! I wouldn't use the frag cannon necessarily, but the chain thing is another S8 weapon to consider, while allowing you to keep two close combat arms.
Oh, and a ten man Sternguard unit at rapid fire range should be able to take down an average MC in a turn, maybe two, so I assume you're running a smaller unit?

Plus, don't forget that a flying Tyrant needs to take grounding tests with every hit, and once failed you can shoot at it normally and assault it for the rest of the turn.

Good luck and welcome to Dakka!

Well, the name of the MLs didn't change, but they updated the profile in the 6th edition rulebook, so i just assumed they had access to the Skyfire. Otherwise, i don't see how any 5th edition codex's have skyfire except maybe IG.

Yes, sorry, replace every "rhino" with Razorbacks in my post.

I thought about the Assault Cannons, but like I said, most of them have Iron Arm, which is a psychic test giving them D3 extra str and toughness. Therefore at best i'm sitting on a toughness 7 MC, which means i'm rolling 5's to wound the sucker.

I may try the landraider thing with the terminators. I haven't tried it yet because I was certain the swarmlord or the Hive Tryant would intercept.

I'm definitely going to try out the blood talons, i just gotta land the sucker safely for a turn.

A 10 man sternguard within rapid fire range has 20 shots. 1/3 miss. So we'll say 13 wounds on 2+. Then 1/6 don't wound, so say 11 wounds. He then saves 2/3 of those wounds on his 3+ save. So if you're lucky, that's 4 unsaved wounds. That would kill the Hive Tyrant, but he's flying. the Swarmlord has both guards, and 5 wounds, and tervigons have 6 wounds. So not exactly 1 MC a turn. And i can forget 2 turns, because if you are within 12" for the rapid fire, that means that he's assaulting next turn for sure, and bye bye sternguard. I support i could try teaming up the stern guard with a command squad with plasma guns, and that might be worth a try, but that's 440 points plus transports to kill 1 MC.

Thanks for the welcome!

None of the 5th edition codices have skyfire except through the flyer rules and hydra flak tanks.

Since you are tailoring, this might be a situation where ML deves are actually good.

Jenked, the FAQs do not include flak missiles for BA, you don't have them. BA skyfire is Stormraven, and if you want to take a bastion or aegis that is the other method for gaining access.

A squad of Death Company properly equipped will shred most any MC.

You don't really need skyfire against Tyranid fliers, you only need enough shots to make it take a grounding test and then it's a sitting duck. I mean, even bolt pistols can do this if they get a hit.

It's not just BA that stuggle with your buddies list. That list has everything it needs to win games...troops out the wazzoo, hard to kill baddies, and the ability to control the board. The psychic abilities that he targets himself with (thus not allowing you to deny) are also a huge problem, which brings me to what is the obvious solution:

Ally in Space Wolves. More precisely, a rune-priest with Jaws of the World Wolf. The rune-priest gives you some much needed psychic defense (denying all his abilities within 24" of the rune-priest on a 4+) as well has having a hard counter to the Tervigons.....JAWS.

Apart from the Space Puppies, Honor Guard with Jump packs and Plasma guns are nice for taking out MC. The same unit buffed with Prescience is even nicer.
Ground his flyer by shooting at it with smaller guns, and once it's down, hit it with the Melta/plasma. It may take a turn of shooting, but it'll get the job done.
Ignore the Swarmlord unless you have the melta/plasma to deal with it. It's slow...BA are supposed to be fast.

It's going to be a rough game...as I said in the beginning, it's a good list your buddy is bringing. Just use your tools to the best of their abilities and let the chips fall where they may.

as far as tailoring, I noticed that the 6th edition rules were changing wargear like the Psychic Hood, and that's not in the FAQ, to me it just followed.

i hadn't thought about the Hydra, that's a good idea

I did try the DC, and they didn't do terribly. they're just really expensive to equip properly to be able to take on an MC

i'll look into the SW allies.

As a Tyranid and BA player I have to say, Blood Angels are easy to beat with Nids, and always have been. Nids players are familiar with dealing with power armor, and BA are just a power armored army that walks to it's death against you.

azreal13 wrote:
Broadly, the best advice I can give you is volume of fire. Try Razorbacks (if that is what you meant) with Assault Cannons, not LC as they will be effective against a wider range of targets. TH/SS Termies are brilliant at taking out Tervigons, but make sure you have a delivery method (I would favour a LR Redeemer for the extra TLAC and templates it brings)
Saying your Vindi can't shoot is just not true, but statistics can take time to normalise. Besides one is not even half as good as two!
Why not fit your LS with Ass Cans and HF, that should again boost your damage output for not much extra points.
Equally, if you're struggling with the MCs, try Blood Fists instead on the Furioso, but my preference would be to stick with Talons, that's a good bit of all the crowd control you need right there! I wouldn't use the frag cannon necessarily, but the chain thing is another S8 weapon to consider, while allowing you to keep two close combat arms.
Oh, and a ten man Sternguard unit at rapid fire range should be able to take down an average MC in a turn, maybe two, so I assume you're running a smaller unit?

Plus, don't forget that a flying Tyrant needs to take grounding tests with every hit, and once failed you can shoot at it normally and assault it for the rest of the turn.

Disagreed on the Land Raiders. They don't put out enough firepower to warrant their cost, and assault transports aren't entirely necessary when he's coming at you. If he's podding zoans and/or has a winged tyrant, he will flip that Raider with no difficulty.

Vindis aren't amazing here either. They are over kill against gants, and only chipping 1 wound off a monstrous creature is garbage.

I'm reasonably certain blood talons are better than fists in any situation that doesn't involve T9 monstrous creatures. The extra attacks and reroll to wounds balance out wounding on a 2+. I've had my blender dreads eat 10 termigants in one phase before, and with furious charge they are 3+ to hit and 3+ to wound with a re-roll against T6 monstrous creatures which means it's not unlikely you can chip 4+ wounds off on the charge.

Land Speeders are a joke. Termigants, tervigon stinger salvos, tyant's TL-BL devourers and god only knows what else will laugh them off the board in a hurry. Not to mention the HF needs to get close and is asking to be eaten.

On the Sternguard front. Remember the combi-weapons as well. 10 combi-plasmas is mean. Drop from a pod, combat squad and target 2 tervigons, and you have a solid chance of putting 4-5 wounds on both, with follow up fire finishing them off. Or, target the swarmlord + friend and you should be able to manage 8-9 wounds, which is 3 dead guard and 2-3 wounds from the big man himself. Just make sure you have the proper other units in place to follow up on their damage so they don't just get eaten after their alpha strike.

Fragile wrote:A squad of Death Company properly equipped will shred most any MC.

Disagreed. They might have the damage output to manage it, but they have deployment issues. Giving them JPs makes them too expensive with all the axes/fists you will need, rhinos and razors don't allow for charging, and they NEED that charge. Land Raiders are expensive as hell, and laughably ineffective against nids. Add in that only a bad Nid player would allow them to contact anything but termigant screens and you have a big hammer and no way to land it effectively.

Things to remember against nids;

Psychic powers: Don't forget Deny the witch!! It's often overlooked. Any of the maledictions and offensive powers he uses will give you that 6+ deny chance. Iron arm is likely to be on around half of his tervigons, 1/3 chance of getting it on the winged tyant, and 4/6 chance to get it on the Swarmlord. Remember though, if the swarmlord has more than 1 guard and casts iron arm that it will not raise the majority toughness of the unit...so it basically just gives him eternal warrior. Now, if he only has 1 guard, it WILL raise the majority toughness....and you'd be out of luck there. Try to target the MCs that don't have Iron arm up first, they are a lot easier to kill.

MC in general: Don't forget about your krak grenades against the big guys. They essentially make your tactical marines S6 in melee. Remember when that tervigon outflanks, it cannot charge the turn it comes on.

Doom: Mech up and/or spread out. Use vehicles as "fire breaks" in your army so he can't leech off of multiple squads at a time. Don't forget you get a cover save against the leech aura! Also, make sure you are at least 6.1" away from it during YOUR shooting phase, as the aura triggers in both player's shooting phases. So if it drops on you, step back to the 6.1" mark and target it with missile, melta and lascannon fire, basically anything S8+. Don't waste time with small arms or melee.

Winged Tyrant: Force grounding tests as much as possible. Not only will smacking the ground more often than not cause wounds, it makes the tyrant a SUPER easy target to finish off. There's not a lot of good options for BA to force these tests though, best bet is massed small arms, quad-cannons and forge world toys like the Hyperios Missile Defense batteries. Outside of that, look into allies.

Tervigons: When they die, they cause feedback wounds on the surrounding termigants. Popping a tervigon will kill, on average, 5 termigants FROM EACH SQUAD WITHIN 6"! If he clusters up some and has a lot spawned, I've seen upwards of 30+ gants go up with their Broodmother. Crushing claws makes them mean in combat, but remember they are only swinging at I1...so all those krak grenades/axes/powerfists will still get to swing.

Swarmlord: He will WRECK anything he touches. Solution, don't let him touch stuff. If he gets close then just road block him with a rhino/razor to slow him down for a turn.

FYI, the hydra is pretty poor in general, as it needs 6's to hit targets that are on the ground, since it doesn't have interceptor.

thanks Carnage! That's some great advice!

I'll work on the blood talons and sternguard with combi's.

i do try to Deny the Witch, but i don't have luck with that roll.

I had tried some melta bombs, but i had forgotten about krak grenades.

his outflanking tervigon has this nasty habit of spawning termagants and then shooting and assaulting with those dudes. Looking at his spawning rule though, it seems like that's not legal because he has to spawn before he moves.


i think i might buy another dreadnought and a Stormraven gunship.

Here's my potential list (i may be off on points here and there):

Reclusiarch with powerfist 145
(with DC and both inside stormraven gunship)
DC with 2 powerfist 150
2 Furioso Dreadnoughts 250
(w/ Blood talons & drop pods) 70

Sternguard with combi-plasma 350
(w/ Rhino) 50

Assault squad 5 member 100
Assault squad 5 member 100
tactical squad 10 man 170
(w/ flamer and ML)

(Razorback w/ TL Lascanon) 90
Half of tactical in razorback

2 Landspeeders with Typhoon ML 180

Stormaven gunship w/ Typhoon
& TL lascannon 225

Whirlwind 90
Predator w/ hunterkiller missile 80
_____
2,000 points


I realize that Landspeeders aren't very survivable, but they seem to put out more dmg for their points. If i make them long range with the Typhoon missile launchers and they just sit in the back, the only thing that will hurt them in turns 1-4 is the Hive Tryant or the trygon. All the other weapons which i've used in the past are much closer range. i thought about doing pure predators instead of landspeeders, but against MCs they aren't significantly more survivable and my buddy likes to lay on the terrain.
With the DC and the Stormraven gunship i can fly in on turn 2, then hover in turn 3 and assault with the DC and reclusiarch, who should be dangerous enough to take out a tervigon in the back/middle ish. One problem i see right away is that my scoring units aren't exactly survivable though.

Ok, thoughts on this build? (i realize this is in the tactical section but it relates to my first post)

Hah! I have lists that are fully capable running away from Nids! So I won't march to my death, you have to come get me.

If he is fielding his Swarmlord with 2+ Tyrant guard, laugh and drop something on him from the rear. Majority toughness will be laughing back at him. At the Doom, grab an aegis and put your best BS option on it. You will want every shot to count. The Tervigons are the key to it all. Those termagants are something, but only if they are around their Tervigons. Don't be afraid to bring a good amount of drop pod infantry. Last I recalled, Blood Angels do happen to have one of the only other units that can assault the turn they arrive. Drop them on the Tervigons. Your best bet is tie up those Tervigons and down 1 or two. At that point, He should start suddenly going on the defensive as his Synapse units go poof.

Take Mephiston as your HQ. You probably don't even need to raven him up as the Tyranids will come to you.

If you send him against the Swarmlord, try to wound him a few times first. That way, you can either kill him through the amount of wounds you will do or force weapon him to death. It is a pretty big risk if he's at full strength though... LD10 on 3D6 from shadows in the warp doesn't work every time... If he's got lashwhips on those Tyrant Guard then STAY AWAY as the Swarmlord will kill you first almost every time.

If he's got Iron Arm, he also gets Eternal Warrior so the force weapon won't work.

But, Mephiston kills everything else in the codex (barring laswhip shrikes or warriors) with ease. Just keep him away from the hordes of gaunts or gargoyles who will tie him up.

Deathcompany dreadnoughts with blood talons also wreck face... I once charged one with a tervigon and it killed my tervigon before it could strike... That's right, he did 6 wounds lol. The blood talons will also shred any kind of gant screen he has. Prescience makes it even nastier lol.

If you take deathcompany, take 3 with axes. That's 15 ap 2 attacks on the charge... mix with a chaplain for reroll to hit and to wound.

Jenked wrote:
his outflanking tervigon has this nasty habit of spawning termagants and then shooting and assaulting with those dudes. Looking at his spawning rule though, it seems like that's not legal because he has to spawn before he moves.

You're right...she can't spawn the turn she walks on the board.

Your opponent cannot spawn termagants from an outflanking Tervigon until turn 3 at the earliest.

Turn 2 to come on and turn 3 to spawn.

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:Take Mephiston as your HQ. You probably don't even need to raven him up as the Tyranids will come to you.

If you send him against the Swarmlord, try to wound him a few times first. That way, you can either kill him through the amount of wounds you will do or force weapon him to death. It is a pretty big risk if he's at full strength though... LD10 on 3D6 from shadows in the warp doesn't work every time... If he's got lashwhips on those Tyrant Guard then STAY AWAY as the Swarmlord will kill you first almost every time.

If he's got Iron Arm, he also gets Eternal Warrior so the force weapon won't work.

But, Mephiston kills everything else in the codex (barring laswhip shrikes or warriors) with ease. Just keep him away from the hordes of gaunts or gargoyles who will tie him up.

Deathcompany dreadnoughts with blood talons also wreck face... I once charged one with a tervigon and it killed my tervigon before it could strike... That's right, he did 6 wounds lol. The blood talons will also shred any kind of gant screen he has. Prescience makes it even nastier lol.

If you take deathcompany, take 3 with axes. That's 15 ap 2 attacks on the charge... mix with a chaplain for reroll to hit and to wound.

If you take Meph, I strongly suggest you avoid the swarmlord, as he's one of a short list of things that can bury Meph with ease. Meph will tear up all the other MCs though, just remember that Shadow in the Warp means your powers only work about half the time, so that force weapon going off isn't guaranteed. Also watch out for gant swarms, with poison they can hurt you, and it sucks spending 5+ turns chewing up 5 point. Overall, he's a solid choice, but he needs appropriate support to reach maximum effectiveness.

The DC dread is....okay. I prefer furiosos over DC dreads, as the extra front armor is better than the extra attack in my opinion. Throw in that I don't think DC are really awesome, and that's a second strike. Prescience is utter OBSCENE on blood talon dreads as you said.

Agree on the DC loadout though. Axes are solid, as S6 AP2 attacks are MEAN. A DC with an axe, on the charge, is as potent in melee as a Hive Tyrant (although a little slower)

Unyielding Hunger wrote:If he is fielding his Swarmlord with 2+ Tyrant guard, laugh and drop something on him from the rear. Majority toughness will be laughing back at him. At the Doom, grab an aegis and put your best BS option on it. You will want every shot to count. The Tervigons are the key to it all. Those termagants are something, but only if they are around their Tervigons. Don't be afraid to bring a good amount of drop pod infantry. Last I recalled, Blood Angels do happen to have one of the only other units that can assault the turn they arrive. Drop them on the Tervigons. Your best bet is tie up those Tervigons and down 1 or two. At that point, He should start suddenly going on the defensive as his Synapse units go poof.

Vanguard suck in general, and super suck against nids in particular. Don't have the attacks to break hordes and don't have the strength to punch out the MCs.
Also, don't expect a quad-cannon or icarus lascannon to do a damn thing to the Doom.
I'd also discourage drop podding in a tailored list. You might get to where you want to go, but then you are left flat-footed.

Martel732 wrote:Hah! I have lists that are fully capable running away from Nids! So I won't march to my death, you have to come get me.

I honestly have almost zero feel for 6th edition Blood Angels. I haven't been able to put together a list I've been happy with.

Jenked wrote:thanks Carnage! That's some great advice!
his outflanking tervigon has this nasty habit of spawning termagants and then shooting and assaulting with those dudes. Looking at his spawning rule though, it seems like that's not legal because he has to spawn before he moves.

I'm not right up to date on this rule conflict, as I don't bother with outflank since you cannot charge from it anymore. Might wanna research this one a bit.

i think i might buy another dreadnought and a Stormraven gunship.

Not sure I'd suggest a Storm Raven either. Nids lack solid anti-aircraft, but the winged tyrants CAN luck out against them sometimes. They also make very poor assault transports, and if they are unfortunate and crash, you are looking at a lot of dead troops. In fifth they were easier to kill, but made better transports overall, and could dump all their missile at once for a mean alpha strike. Now they can arrive late, cannot charge out of them the turn they arrive and if they die you basically get your army crippled in one blow.

Reclusiarch with powerfist 145
DC with 2 powerfist 150
Stormaven gunship w/ Typhoon
& TL lascannon 225

520 points for 5 guys and a character, with a dicey deployment method. That's 26% of you army all in 1 boat, that doesn't score, and won't see combat until AT LEAST turn 3, if not 4.

2 Furioso Dreadnoughts 250
(w/ Blood talons & drop pods) 70

Make sure the furiosos have melta-guns. I'm not really sure I'd drop pod them either.

Sternguard with combi-plasma 350
(w/ Rhino) 50

These guys on the other hand, need to be drop podded.
You also have zero sanguinary priests. Remember, at 2000 points you get a double force organization chart, so 6 elite choices.

Assault squad 5 member 100
Assault squad 5 member 100
tactical squad 10 man 170
(w/ flamer and ML)
(Razorback w/ TL Lascanon) 90
Half of tactical in razorback

I have no words to express how bad those 5 man assault squads are. At the absolute least they need a special weapon. Either a flamer or melta-gun at the very least.
Switch out the flamer on the tactical squad for a plasma gun.
That tactical squad in the razor is also unwise. Maybe switch to a jetpack less assault squad in one of the razors for the 35 point discount, and give them a special weapon. I'd also reconsider your weapon choice. TL-lascannons are about the worse possible choice. Assault cannons and lascannon/TL-plasma are much better overall IMO.
25 scoring bodies is pretty weak....but honestly BA troops aren't anything special, so it's not like I can disagree with taking so few. If you are going BA troop lite, then you have to make up for it via allies.

2 Landspeeders with Typhoon ML 180

You just paid 180 points for 4 missile shots on a 10 armor platform. Missile devs are only 130 for that many missiles. For 200 points you could get 4 multi-melta attack bikes, or 5 Hyperios Missile Defense batteries, both of which are better.

Whirlwind 90

These are honestly 90 points in the BA book? Oh gawd. They are 65 in the Dark Angels codex. Mediocre at best. You could strip the jetpacks off of your assault marines and get 3-4 razorbacks with heavy bolters, which would do more damage and would provide more armor to your list.

Predator w/ hunterkiller missile 80

At the absolute least pay for the heavy bolter sponsons. Best loadout for this opponent would be AC/LC though.

"I honestly have almost zero feel for 6th edition Blood Angels. I haven't been able to put together a list I've been happy with."

I haven't either. And none of the talking heads on the internet have sold me on a list, either. The amount of underpowered and overcosted units in the book make it very difficult.

My friend is still competing well with his bling wing. 2+ sv got really good with 6th ed. Only real enemy is cron air and crimson hunters...well eldar in general having buckets of AP1 and 2.

But Necron air is starting to fade with the occurrence of Tau and Eldar.

Well, here's a swing at 2000 points.

250 Mephiston

85 Sang priest on bike (hang with the attack bikes)
50 Sang priest on foot (in one of the razors)

125 Furioso Dread, melta-gun, twin-blood talons
125 Furioso Dread, melta-gun, twin-blood talons

165 5 ASM, melta-gun, Las/plas Razorback
165 5 ASM, melta-gun, Las/plas Razorback
165 5 ASM, melta-gun, Las/plas Razorback

100 2 Attack bikes, multi-meltas
100 2 Attack bikes, multi-metlas
140 4 Hyperios Missile Batteries

185 Deimos Predator, lascannon sponsons

100 Aegis Defense line, quad-gun

100 Cotaez
77 10 warrior acolytes, 7 bolters, 3 plasma guns
77 10 warrior acolytes, 7 bolters, 3 plasma guns
-----
1999 points

Not awful anti-aircraft with quad-gun and missile batteries. A hilarious amount of plasma and lascannons. Mobile anti-tank in the attack bikes. Meph and the dreads should be able to keep you largely safe from the big and scarys in melee. Has a lot of tools, but I'm not super confident in dealing with hordes as there isn't a lot of template or bolter fire here. The dreads, ASM and meph will have to do the heavy lifting in clearing out hordes. built a little base with the pred, razors and acolytes and use the dreads to scare off melee troops.

You could drop the dreads and trim a few units here and there and get the sternguard back I suppose.

This seems to be a odd point in the rules. Do reserves arrive prior to the movement phase or do they arrive at the start of the movement phase. Since reserves must arrive on the table before the rest your army moves it could easily be decided that it takes place prior to the movement phase. If so then the Tervigon spawns gaunts at the start of the movement phase.

The simple question is where does it specifically state that reserves do in fact arrive during the movement phase. Actually the FAQ seems to point towards the player deciding which will happen first possibly. it is definitely a strange circumstance that must be better elaborated upon.

 dmthomas7 wrote:
This seems to be a odd point in the rules. Do reserves arrive prior to the movement phase or do they arrive at the start of the movement phase. Since reserves must arrive on the table before the rest your army moves it could easily be decided that it takes place prior to the movement phase. If so then the Tervigon spawns gaunts at the start of the movement phase.

The simple question is where does it specifically state that reserves do in fact arrive during the movement phase. Actually the FAQ seems to point towards the player deciding which will happen first possibly. it is definitely a strange circumstance that must be better elaborated upon.

While there is ambiguity about whether Reserves arrive prior to, or during, the Movement phase, the point is moot in this particular issue here, regarding whether Tervigons can spawn gaunts on the turn they arrive from Reserve (Tervigons cannot, as Jenked and ductvader have stated).


To outline the relevant rules:

- In the BRB, while the Outflank rules on pg40 detail the method for determining which table edge the unit will arrive from, it also ultimately specifies that "models move onto the table as described for other Reserves."
Thus we can go straight to the Reserves rules themselves, as below.

- The Reserves rules themselves (on pg 124) detail the arrival of units as follows:
"When Reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it, moving it onto the table as described below."
Meanwhile, the referenced description is as follows:
"Each model's move is measured from the edge of the battlefield, as if they had been positioned just off the board in the previous turn and moved as normal."


For clarity, here is the relevant sentence in the Tervigon's "Spawn Termagant" ability:
"A Tervigon can spawn Termagants in the Tyranid Movement phase before it has moved."


Therefore, the Tervigon is considered to have moved just to get on to the table, when arriving from Reserve. Once it is on the table, it is too late to use Spawn Termagant.

Another way to look at it is that, prior to the Tervigon's move (the point in time at which Spawn Termagants can be triggered), the Tervigon was not even on the table.