CAIRO (AP) — Egyptian soldiers and police opened fire on supporters of the ousted president early Monday in violence that left at least 40 people killed, including one officer, outside a military building in Cairo where demonstrators had been holding a sit-in, government officials and witnesses said.

There were conflicting accounts of how the violence began. A military spokesman said gunmen attempted to storm the building at dawn, prompting the clashes. Supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi, meanwhile, said the security forces fired on hundreds of protesters as they performed early morning prayers. It was not immediately possible to reconcile the two accounts.

In chaotic scenes from field hospitals treating the wounded, at least six dead bodies had been laid out on the ground, some with severe wounds, according to footage aired by pan-Arab broadcaster Al-Jazeera. The bodies had been draped with an Egyptian flag and pictures of Morsi. Pools of blood covered the floor and doctors struggled to deal with gaping wounds.

A medic from the area, Hesham Agami, said ambulances were unable to transport more than 200 wounded to hospitals because the military had blocked off the roads.

Health Ministry spokesman Khaled el-Khatib said initial reports also indicated at least 322 were wounded, although he gave no details on the circumstances of the bloodshed.

Military spokesmen said gunmen opened fire on troops at the building, killing at least five Morsi supporters and one officer.

A spokesman for Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood, Mourad Ali, and a witness at the scene said army troops opened fire at dawn on the protesters outside the Republican Guard building, where the protesters believe Morsi has been held by the army since the military pushed him from power on Wednesday. Morsi was initially held there but was later moved to an undisclosed Defense Ministry facility.

Al-Shaimaa Younes, who was at the sit-in, said military troops and police forces opened fire on the protesters during early morning prayers, and that women and children had been among the demonstrators.

"They opened fire with live ammunition and lobbed tear gas," she said by telephone. "There was panic and people started running. I saw people fall."

Egyptian state TV showed images provided by the military of the scene of the sit-in, where scores of protesters were pelting troops with rocks, and setting tires on fire, as troops dressed in riot gear and carrying shields formed lines a few meters (yards) away.

A fire was raging from an apartment in a building overlooking the scene of the clashes. Images showed men throwing spears at the area of the clashes from atop nearby building rooftops. Other protesters were lobbing fire bombs at the troops. It was not clear when the footage was filmed. Security officers were showing cameras bullet casings, and troops were carrying injured colleagues.

Military spokesman Col. Ahmed Mohammed Ali said initial information indicates that gunmen affiliated with the Brotherhood tried to storm the Republican Guard building shortly after dawn, firing live ammunition and throwing firebombs from a nearby mosque and rooftops. One police officer on the scene was killed, he said.

A statement by the armed forces published on the state news agency said "an armed terrorist group" tried to storm the Republican Guard building, killing one officer and seriously wounding six. The statement said the forces arrested 200 attackers, armed with guns and ammunition.

Ali, the Brotherhood spokesman, dismissed the military's version, saying the protesters — including women and children — didn't attack the troops. He said the military had warned protesters it will break up the sit-in.

Morsi supporters have been holding rallies and a sit-in outside the Republican Guard building since the military deposed Morsi last week during massive protests against him. The military chief replaced Morsi with an interim president until presidential elections are held. The transition plan is backed by liberal and secular opponents of Morsi, and had been also supported by the ultraconservative Islamist Al-Nour party and both Muslim and Christian religious leaders.

Soon after the attack report, however, Al-Nour party spokesman Nader Bakkar said on his Twitter account his party is withdrawing its support for the transition plan in response to the "massacre."

Morsi's supporters refuse to recognize the change in leadership and insist Morsi be reinstated, and have vowed to continue their sit-ins outside the Republican Guard building as well as at a nearby mosque.

Morsi's opponents are also holding rival rallies. They say the former president lost his legitimacy by mismanaging the country and not ruling democratically, leading to a mass revolt that began June 30, the first anniversary of Morsi's assumption of power.

 Frazzled wrote:
Frazz confused.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
As long as that other criminal is also wounded

Hordini wrote:I hope they can get a lid on this pretty quickly, but this already looks like it's going to be worse than last time. An even more radicalized MB is not going to be a good thing for anyone.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Hordini wrote:I hope they can get a lid on this pretty quickly, but this already looks like it's going to be worse than last time. An even more radicalized MB is not going to be a good thing for anyone.

But it might be the lesser of two problems when compared to a less-militant MB that's implementing a conservative fundamentalist constitution, having been elected under the premise of what amounts to Islam's equivalent of the Liars-for-Jesus strategy.

Hordini wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

Hordini wrote:I hope they can get a lid on this pretty quickly, but this already looks like it's going to be worse than last time. An even more radicalized MB is not going to be a good thing for anyone.

But it might be the lesser of two problems when compared to a less-militant MB that's implementing a conservative fundamentalist constitution, having been elected under the premise of what amounts to Islam's equivalent of the Liars-for-Jesus strategy.

In the long term, if they are able to deal with these new issues, you're probably right. The short term body count is likely going to be a lot higher though.


I think I might know what you're referring to with the Liars-for-Jesus strategy, but could you go into a bit more detail?

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood has rejected a timetable for new elections laid out by interim president Adly Mansour, saying it is illegitimate.

President Mohammed Morsi was ousted by the army last week after mass protests.

The Tamarod movement, which organised the protests, has said it was not consulted on the election plan and has asked to see Mr Mansour urgently.

On Monday at least 51 people were killed outside a Cairo barracks where Mr Morsi's supporters say he is held.

The Muslim Brotherhood - Egypt's main Islamist movement, which Mr Morsi belongs to - says its members were fired on at a sit-in for the ousted leader. The army says it responded to an armed provocation.

Mr Morsi was Egypt's first freely elected president. His removal last Wednesday followed protests by tens of thousands of people who accused him of becoming increasingly authoritarian, pursuing an Islamist agenda, and failing to tackle Egypt's economic woes.

The Brotherhood has denounced the military's action as a coup.

'Invalid'
Mr Mansour's decree, issued late on Monday, laid out plans to set up a panel to amend the suspended Islamist-drafted constitution within 15 days.

The changes would then be put to a referendum - to be organised within four months - which would pave the way for parliamentary elections, possibly in early 2014.

Once the new parliament convenes, elections would be called to appoint a new president.

Mr Erian, deputy chairman of the Brotherhood's political wing, the Freedom and Justice Party (FJP), said the declaration was "a constitutional decree by a man appointed by putchists" which "brings the country back to square one".

The Brotherhood's spokesman Gehad el-Haddad told AFP news agency that further protests and sit-ins would be held across the country on Tuesday, as funerals are held for supporters killed in Monday's violence in Cairo.

Brotherhood supporters camping outside the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque in north-east Cairo also expressed their anger.

"No-one voted for this president," Ashraf Awad told the Associated Press news agency. "He is illegitimate in being sworn in, so all decisions he makes, people will not recognise."

Another protester, Hamdi el-Said, said Mr Morsi remained his president. "I will defend my vote which I gave to him until I become a martyr like the people who were killed yesterday," he said.

Conflicting reports
The Muslim Brotherhood has described what happened outside the Presidential Guard barracks on Monday as a "massacre", and has called for "an uprising by the great people of Egypt against those trying to steal their revolution with tanks".

It says the army raided a peaceful sit-in as protesters were performing dawn prayers, and that 53 people were killed.

The health ministry said at least 51 people were killed and 435 people wounded.

But army spokesman Col Ahmed Mohammed Ali said troops only opened fire after a group armed with live ammunition, petrol bombs and stones attacked them.

He said that two police and one soldier were killed in the exchange of fire. Eight soldiers were critically wounded.

Col Ali also disputed claims that children had died, saying pictures of dead children posted on the internet were in fact images taken in Syria in March.

Mr Morsi is believed by the Brotherhood to be held at the barracks, but the military says he is elsewhere.

The killings follow an incident in the same location on Friday in which three people died and dozens were wounded as troops fired on crowds.

Mr Mansour has appealed for calm, and has ordered an investigation into the incident.


Spokesman for the Egyptian ministry: "There was a treacherous attack"
In response to the killings the grand sheikh of al-Azhar University, Ahmed al-Tayeb - seen as the highest authority in Sunni Islam - warned of civil war and said he was going into seclusion until the violence was over.

The hardline Salafist Nour party - which had supported Mr Morsi's removal - said it was withdrawing from talks to choose an interim prime minister, describing the shooting incident as a "massacre".

But on Tuesday, Nour indicated it might accept the latest figure to be proposed as a possible prime minister, economist Samir Radwan, having rejected two previous proposals.

"We asked for a technocrat economist ... a neutral guy," said Nour spokesman Nader Bakkar, adding that Mr Radwan met those conditions.

The BBC's Jim Muir in Cairo says the crisis in Egypt remains acute, and any move to defuse it politically will be hostage to developments and possible violence on the ground,.

If Mr Radwan were to be nominated, and manages to put together a coherent, neutral or balanced administration to stabilise the country and prepare for elections, that would be a huge step forward, our correspondent says.

Dreadclaw69 wrote:If it does Israel might be building a huge wall that has nothing to do with zombies

"an uprising by the great people of Egypt against those trying to steal their revolution with tanks".

 chromedog wrote:
Couldn't help but snort with derision over this comment.

"an uprising by the great people of Egypt against those trying to steal their revolution with tanks".

So they are upset that the military stole their thunder?

Also, if you storm a military barracks, don't be surprised when the soldiers DO shoot at you. It's generally their job to shoot at people attacking them.

Egypt's state prosecutor has issued an arrest warrant for the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohamed Badie, and at least nine other senior figures.

Mr Badie is accused of inciting the violence in Cairo on Monday in which more than 50 people were killed.

Many Brotherhood members are already in detention and warrants are said to have been been issued for hundreds more.

Meanwhile, a foreign ministry spokesman has said ousted President Mohammed Morsi is being held in a "safe place".

Badr Abdul Atti told reporters he did not know where the 61 year old was, but that he was being treated in a "very dignified manner".

"For his own safety and for the safety of the country, it is better to keep him in a safe place. Otherwise, the consequences will be dire," he added.

Mr Abdul Atti is reported to have denied that Mr Morsi was being detained at the Presidential Guard barracks in Cairo, as many believe.

The Brotherhood, to which he belongs, says his ousting by the military a week ago amounted to a coup.

Its supporters have since been staging protests outside the capital's Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque, not far from the barracks, demanding his release and reinstatement.
The movement's political wing, the Freedom and Justice Party (FJP), has said it will not accept an offer to join the cabinet being set up by interim Prime Minister Hazem al-Beblawi, a 76-year-old economist and former finance minister who was appointed on Tuesday.

The arrest warrants could scupper any attempts to persuade the Brotherhood to participate in the transitional political process.

'Remain peaceful'
Spokesman Gehad el-Haddad said the charges against Mr Badie, known as the General Guide, and other senior leaders, were "nothing more than an attempt by the police state to dismantle the Rabaa protest".

Prosecutors also said they had ordered 200 people - believed to be Brotherhood members - to be held in custody for at least 15 days pending further investigation into accusations of murder, incitement to violence, carrying unlicensed weapons and disrupting public order. Another 450 have been released on bail.

There were conflicting reports about what happened on Monday, with the interim authorities being accused of a cover-up.

The Brotherhood maintains that soldiers carried out a massacre of peaceful demonstrators, who had been taking part in dawn prayers outside the Presidential Guard barracks.

But the police and the military say they acted in self-defence, and had opened fire only after being attacked by armed assailants.

More than 50 Brotherhood supporters were killed, as well as a soldier and two policemen.

On Wednesday, 15 leading Egyptian human rights groups expressed their "strong condemnation of the excessive use of force" against Brotherhood supporters, and called for an independent investigation into Monday's violence.
The previous Friday, Mr Badie had appeared at a rally outside the mosque, telling the crowd: "We shall stay in the squares until we bring President Morsi back to power."

He said their protests would remain peaceful and called on the army not to "direct your arms against us".

The BBC's Jim Muir, in Cairo, says the protest now covers several square kilometres of the capital, and to clear it out forcibly would almost certainly involve further bloodshed.

There is a feeling among the protesters that they have returned to the situation they were in under former President Hosni Mubarak, when the movement was banned and its members hunted down, our correspondent adds.

The timetable for new elections, announced in a constitutional declaration by interim President Adly Mansour on Monday evening, laid out plans to set up a panel to amend the suspended constitution within 15 days.

The changes would then be put to a referendum - to be organised within four months - which would pave the way for parliamentary elections, possibly in early 2014.
Once the new parliament convenes, elections would be called to appoint a new president.

A spokesman for Mr Mansour said posts in the cabinet would be offered to the FJP, but senior party official Mohamed Kamal told the BBC: "We will never take part in any cabinet as long as Morsi is not back as a president."

The FJP's deputy chairman, Essam al-Erian, earlier said the constitutional declaration had been issued "by a man appointed by putschists". The text does make clear that Mr Mansour and his government draw their authority only from the commander of the armed forces, who deposed President Morsi.

The main liberal coalition, the National Salvation Front (NSF), expressed reservations about the decree, saying it was not consulted and that it "lacks significant clauses while others need change or removal".

The grassroots Tamarod protest movement, which organised the demonstrations that led to Mr Morsi's overthrow, said the decree gave too much power to Mr Mansour.

Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait - who are opponents of the Muslim Brotherhood - have promised Egypt's interim government $12bn (£8bn) in grants, loans, and gas and oil.

 Hordini wrote:
I hope they can get a lid on this pretty quickly, but this already looks like it's going to be worse than last time. An even more radicalized MB is not going to be a good thing for anyone.

 whembly wrote:
Are we still calling this a coup? Or, a revolution? (I'm siding the big "r" here).

 sebster wrote:
Thing is, the Brotherhood had come a long from its radicalised form. It was certainly ultra-conservative, for sure, but it seemed pretty happy with following normal democratic processes in order to gain power (perhaps because it knew it was winning that way).

With the ousting of Mubarak, it seems the only question is how radicalised they become.

 sebster wrote:
It depends on whether the State Department wants to keep paying money or not

The US is going ahead with plans to deliver four F-16 fighter jets to Egypt despite the political unrest in the country, senior American officials say.

It comes as Washington is continuing to evaluate last week's overthrow of President Mohammed Morsi by the army.

US massive military aid to Cairo would have to be cut by law if the removal of the Islamist leader is determined by Washington to have been a coup.

The Muslim Brotherhood, which backs Mr Morsi, is demanding his reinstatement.

Its supporters have been staging mass protests near Cairo's barracks, where he is believed to be being held. On Monday, more than 50 Brotherhood loyalists were killed in clashes with the army.

The new authorities have not said where Mr Morsi it, but a foreign ministry spokesman said he was in a "safe place" and being treated in a "very dignified manner".

'In US interests'
The US officials say Washington will deliver four F-16 fighter jets in the next few weeks.

They are part of an already agreed bigger order of 20 planes - eight of which were sent to Egypt in January. The final eight are expected to be shipped later this year.
White House spokesman Jay Carney on Wednesday reiterated that it would not be "in the best interests of the United States to make immediate changes to our assistance programmes".

He added that the administration would take its time to consider the implications of removing Mr Morsi from power.

US military aid to Egypt is estimated to be $1.3bn (£860m) each year.

President Barack Obama has been careful not to use the word "coup" in relation to events in Egypt, the BBC's Katy Watson in Washington reports, as doing so would trigger the legal requirement to cut off aid.

'Strong condemnation'
On Wednesday, arrest warrants were issued for the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohamed Badie, and nine other senior figures in the movement.

They are charged with inciting Monday's deadly violence in the capital, in which more than 50 Brotherhood supporters, a soldier and two policemen died.

The Brotherhood says the army fired on peaceful demonstrators and it is accusing the interim authorities of a cover up. The military, however, say soldiers acted in self-defence after being attacked by armed assailants.

Many Brotherhood members are already in detention and warrants are said to have been issued for hundreds more.

Correspondents say the new warrants could scupper any attempts to persuade the Brotherhood - banned for decades under former President Hosni Mubarak - to participate in the transitional political process.

The timetable for new elections was announced in a constitutional declaration by interim President Adly Mansour on Monday evening. It laid out plans to set up a panel to amend the suspended constitution within 15 days.

The changes would then be put to a referendum - to be organised within four months - which would pave the way for parliamentary elections, possibly in early 2014.

Once the new parliament convenes, elections would be called to appoint a new president.
The Brotherhood has rejected the transition plan and its political wing, the Freedom and Justice Party (FJP), has said it will turn down a post in the cabinet being formed by the interim Prime Minister Hazem al-Beblawi.

Mr Beblawi said on Thursday that he had not ruled out offering posts to the FJP.

"I don't look at political association," he told the AFP news agency.

"I'm taking two criteria for the next government. Efficiency and credibility."

The main liberal opposition coalition, the National Salvation Front (NSF), and the grassroots Tamarod protest movement, which co-ordinated the anti-Morsi protests, said they were not consulted on the decree and have concerns about it.