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Straightforward question . If I have X(random number+1) Wave Serpents, and as long as I have them marked in some way, and wrote on paper which unit goes in which vehicle, should I point my oponent where are my Fire Dragons/Farseer/Wraithguard/etc. sitting?

If you've agreed to play everything open with full disclosure of whats in every transport then do it that way, if you're both ok with not knowing then don't tell each other.

Decide with your opponant before the game.

I'm more concerned about when I go to another LGS or play with different people from the usual ones. Would I be called TFG if I don't disclose that info?

Your second question is hard to answer, as we don't know what rules any LGS may run with.
Personally I never tell my friends what unit is in which transport. I tell them what units are in my list, and I write down which units are in which vehicle (If I have more than one).

If I were to go to a LGS that ruled you need to disclose which units are in which vehicles I would, as it's their house, their rules.

arnet you meant to reveal lists and mention this as part of disclosure before games? it also prevents one player making "mistakes" of what unit was where.

 noghri wrote:
I'm more concerned about when I go to another LGS or play with different people from the usual ones. Would I be called TFG if I don't disclose that info?

Then ask the question there first

When you go there, ask what they normally do and play it that way. Or you could ask whoever you're going to play before the game if you are ok to not say whats in a transport.

You'll only get called TFG if you refuse to tell them at all.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
arnet you meant to reveal lists and mention this as part of disclosure before games? it also prevents one player making "mistakes" of what unit was where.

I do, but if I have different units in transports with the same loadout and equipment, I consider I'm not forced to reveal which one carries each unit... that's why I write on a paper that kind of info.

P.S.- I've very limited experience playing outside my LGS/Group of friends, so my question was more focused on knowing the general rule on your LGS. Thanks for your replies.

Why do you feel the need to hide it?

It seems like any win I'd get would be tainted by the fact that I had to rely on obfuscating things from my opponent to achieve it.

 noghri wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
arnet you meant to reveal lists and mention this as part of disclosure before games? it also prevents one player making "mistakes" of what unit was where.

I do, but if I have different units in transports with the same loadout and equipment, I consider I'm not forced to reveal which one carries each unit... that's why I write on a paper that kind of info.

P.S.- I've very limited experience playing outside my LGS/Group of friends, so my question was more focused on knowing the general rule on your LGS. Thanks for your replies.

fair enough, how do you deal with people asking to see the list to confirm its the right models in the vehicles without just a say so? i know its tedious, but open and clear is better than a turn 4 or 5 ooops THAT unit should be in TTHAT vehicle... sorry bout that
edit: not saying youd lie, but many would take advantage of this idea.

if the rules say you deploy unit by unit you have to say what is in which transport.

It's not outright stated, but the rules heavily imply that you should disclose the transport's contents. You deploy unit by unit, and the transported unit would be "assigned" when you deploy the transport, so you'd have to say which unit was being assigned at the time the transport's down and then it's obvious.

As to how it should actually be played - check first. Disclosing the details seems to be the default position for most people so you'll need agreement in order to hide them instead.

Imo you should tell i beforehand and everytime when you are asked. Else I´d feel sort of cheated.

I think it is somewhat problematic because 40K has no proper "hidden/unrevealed unit/Fog-of-War/etc.." mechanic (e.g. Infinity's camouflage-counters, Space Hulk blibs, etc..).

Why would (the details of) units in transports be hidden/unknown from an opponent, but not.. say... camouflaged scouts? Or flanking units that are already on the board, but arrived behind terrain? Or, as it were, my entire initial deployment, especially in Dawn of War, at least until one of your units gets close and draws a line-of-sight?

Having your opponent "not know" what is inside a transport (because the player cannot see the models), but having him know how many Genestealers just arrived behind the ruins on the left flank (because the player can see the models, even though his army could not) draws the "know what is there/do not know what is there" divide at a rather uncomfortable line of what models the player (rather than his guys on the table) can see or not see.


If a "hidden-models" mechanic were to work properly, IMO, it would need proper rules that work reasonably fairly for all units that would be "hidden" to an opposing army, whether the cause for them being hidden would be a transport, bad visibility on the battlefield, camouflage, terrain, whatever.

Doing it "only for transports", but not... say... for "X behind this terrain that your guys cannot see" just feels wrong somehow.

That I know off only in Fantasy you have "hidden" units. In 40k (I think!) it's a common practice to reveal everything you have including your HQ's gear. Before any game I make sure to explain my list, show which transports carries what and explain special gear and possible special rules my opponent may not be familiar with.

You have to reveal units. You should detail what units are in which tranport, as you should detail your army when requested. Otherwise, simply, you can cheat. I might attack one transport, kill it, and you could decide that the other transport has the valuable items.

I have two tervigons. One has better psychic powers than the other. If you happen to kill one of them, I might decide that's the one with the inferior psychic powers.

The rule in these games, overall, is clarity of what your army consists of, and WYSIWYG. To try and take advantage of something that patently is against WYSIWYG is an attempt to win unfair advantage just like, for example, modelling for advantage.

If I played you and you tried it, I'd considering it cheating - rather like not supplying an army list. Because we all know, when people have an army list that they're vague about, that the mistakes they've made won't be in the opponent's favour.
,

I've tempted to play 40k with a Fog of War type system that other rules play. Camouflaged units, hidden units, or units that haven't been spotted yet/haven't shot yet are all represented by markers.

Almost every club, and every tournament, requires you to fully disclose your list/transports with your opponent. However, if you agree to not reveal transports, then it is a very fun touch that could add something to the game.

I'd say you can hide it from anybody but Eldar. We know all.

Honestly though, I have it determined on my sheet and if a player asks after I deploy(where I have to disclose) I answer honestly.

 noghri wrote:
I do, but if I have different units in transports with the same loadout and equipment, I consider I'm not forced to reveal which one carries each unit... that's why I write on a paper that kind of info.

P.S.- I've very limited experience playing outside my LGS/Group of friends, so my question was more focused on knowing the general rule on your LGS. Thanks for your replies.

If you have 3 identical transports with 3 identical units in them it is much less of an issue since ultimately it really doesn't matter a simple "these 3 transports all have identical units of guardians" in them should suffice. If there are differences between the units, or one is a transport with an elite unit in it, then that information should be made available to your opponent if they ask for it. If they don't ask then it doesn't matter then does it as long as you have kept track of where things are properly. Some players conveniently forget that their elite unit was in the transport that just got blown apart on their turn and instead remove the troop unit that was supposed to be in the other transport instead. Doesn't sound like that is your game, mind you, but it happens which is why disclosing what is in transports is expected if the opponent is asked.

Some people certainly play differently and like to keep such info from each other by mutual choice and that is fine too.

Skriker

You should decide beforehand, but it adds a new aspect to the game, which makes it a whole lot more fun. I once did this, and did the same with reserves, and it was really fun. While my Farseer couldn't cast psychic powers the first two turns because it would give away his position, and my opponent was continually wondering what kind of ridiciously expensive thing was in my serpents, right up till the moment 8 Warp Spiders dropped in. They got wiped out by a wave of HellTurkeys appeared out of nowhere...

To me it reeks of bad sportsmanship. While it does provide opportunities for cheating, I believe most people won't, however, it's more about you opponent not knowing what to target.
If I had mech vets with plasma in one chimera and melta in another my opponent would have a 50:50 guess to neutralise antitank. It doesn't seem fair when other aspects don't hide the unit composition.

I I usually place a model representing the special weapon in the unit on top of my chimera so my opponent knows what's in there.

When I play my Blood angels and I run 5 or 6 Las/Plas Razors. I actually put the squad model that is difference ( the flamer, pfist or whatever ) on the box along with the IC that is in the unit, i.e. Priest, libby, Chaplain etc. If i get red thirts on a squad i actually put a pink/red dice in the unit and let the opponent know that they are in X transport. I disclose everything prior to even deploying my army. If they have questions( which doesnt really come up much since models are literally ON the vehicle they are in ) i answer freely. Its about having fun and not trying to sneak something past someone to win a game by being deceitful.

My friend that Plays Eldar does the same thing with his Wave Serpents. It just makes it easier in the long run.

Outside of a tournament setting, I personally would tell my opponent anything they wanted to know. In a tourney, where how well you do kinda depends not only on how well you know your own army, but how well you know what everybody else can do TO you, all bets are off...

 Super Ready wrote:
It's not outright stated, but the rules heavily imply that you should disclose the transport's contents. .

It is outright stated, in the deployment rules. Page 121, 'Deploy Transport vehicles'

I don't think you should do this. I tell my opponents what's in my transports when I deploy them. It's just good sportsmanship.

 insaniak wrote:
It is outright stated, in the deployment rules. Page 121, 'Deploy Transport vehicles'

Ooh, well spotted that man. Have a cookie!

 insaniak wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
It's not outright stated, but the rules heavily imply that you should disclose the transport's contents. .

It is outright stated, in the deployment rules. Page 121, 'Deploy Transport vehicles'

Good to know!

It's good sportsmanship to tell your opponent what's in your transports (I always have models "surfing" my Rhinos), but if you want to do it secretly then ask your opponent. If they're running transports themselves then that might be fine, but if not then you might have to find some other way of compensating (or just not do it).

youre suppose to tell your opponent any stat or feature your using should he/she be so inclined to inquire. Giving out your list is mandatory, but everything else typically doesnt get spoken (even though you should if theres something odd about something) unless its asked for.

Deliberately hiding info is not only dishonest but a bit lame. If i caught my opponents doing this (note, i mean hiding info i asked for not just not telling me something) i would start to question whether or not theyre TFG material or not and slowly drop towards that "im not playing against you" attitude.

Reveal if asked.

Of course, sometimes you can have fun with this.

'What's in that Trukk?'

'Orks!'

'No, seriously...'

'They are serious orks... Also Meganobz '

Gauge your opponent right though. about half of the guys i play love this kind of banter. The other half, not so much

I don't mind telling folk what's in my transports, even if it does result in a death sentence for my poor little burnaboyz any time i bring them. I don't feel the need to run down the list unasked, but i'd be a git to refuse when asked unless we had agreed on non-disclosure play.

It also prevents shell-games with the units, but as long as everything is written down pre-game it's all good.