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Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






 FrozenDwarf wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Wrong scale though.


They are objectives, size realy dont matter in an airplane game when it comes to ground models.
And tbh with anti air ground weps for this game, the smaller the better imo.


It's also not the wrong scale, since there is no 8 mm scale to begin with but hey ho. Vanguard stuff, AT and AI are perfectly compatible with each other.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/06 10:41:10


#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






35$ for the new FW anti air models.

one of each plus one ground objective model PER faction. (so 70$ if you want both tau and IG)

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Sherrypie wrote:
 FrozenDwarf wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Wrong scale though.


They are objectives, size realy dont matter in an airplane game when it comes to ground models.
And tbh with anti air ground weps for this game, the smaller the better imo.


It's also not the wrong scale, since there is no 8 mm scale to begin with but hey ho. Vanguard stuff, AT and AI are perfectly compatible with each other.


New AI is definitely 8mm scale, just as old AI was definitely 6mm. FW used to give full scale dimensions you could use for comparison. Old GW epic was random scale, with infantry between 4 and 7mm and vehicles generally being on the small side.

But I’d be curious to see a side by side with those to see how close they are in scale.
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Sherrypie wrote:
 FrozenDwarf wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Wrong scale though.


They are objectives, size realy dont matter in an airplane game when it comes to ground models.
And tbh with anti air ground weps for this game, the smaller the better imo.


It's also not the wrong scale, since there is no 8 mm scale to begin with but hey ho. Vanguard stuff, AT and AI are perfectly compatible with each other.



New AI is definitely 8mm scale, just as old AI was definitely 6mm. FW used to give full scale dimensions you could use for comparison. Old GW epic was random scale, with infantry between 4 and 7mm and vehicles generally being on the small side.

But I’d be curious to see a side by side with those to see how close they are in scale.


Riiiight, here's the thing: FW still gives canonical measurements, the AT rulebook as an example gives titan heights to a cm. With those, we have multiple times counted the scale human of 180 cm to be about 6,5 mm tall. That's heroic 6 mm on the nose. AI and AT are done in the same scale. Vanguard Miniatures' extensive 6 mm ranges have been pictured multiple times alongside new AI models and look good. The older planes weren't 6 mm, just as most vehicles in Epics of varying ages were in whatever scale from 2-3 mm titans onwards. The new planes are closer to true 6 mm than the older ones. Planes are big things.

And please, can the whole 8 mm thing just die already, it's a misunderstanding originated from the WarCom media guys not understanding how measurements work with no basis on the minis themselves.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





I don't have any AT miniatures, my understanding is the "canonical" measurements for titans aren't terribly consistent (for example, using the Titan measurements, what would 40k scale be?).

For AI, the aircraft are in the 1/200 to 1/225 range, which is puts it in the range for 8mm.

I don't have my older AI models on hand, but I've measured them in the past and they fell in that 1/285 to 1/300 range as would be appropriate for 6mm scale. They were massive compared to the old Epic planes which I agree were somewhere in the 2-4mm range (I'd call them "3mm comical", because they had absurd proportions).

As far as I'm aware, the only infantry model we have to measure is the Grots that man the Eavy Bomber guns, and they are a bit over 5mm tall in a seated position. Grots have pretty varied sizes in 40k scale models so not sure you can draw much conclusion from that.

In the end, they just "feel" right for 8mm scale. Planes are big, they're not THAT big, if you look at the FW fluff dimensions for their aircraft, they're proportioned like WW2 or early jets, but in terms of overall size they're between early jets and modern jets. If you put 6mm infantry next to them, the AI planes look too big, the canopy/cockpit areas just don't suit models of that size. I own a lot of historic models in the 1/144 to 1/300 range and while I know 40k doesn't scale well with real life and 40k has funky proportions, I think they fit well in the 8-ish mm range.

I think the problem is AI and AT isn't actually scaled to "real life", it's scaled to 40k, and we know 40k has stupid dimensions. That's why I asked earlier in this post, what scale do you get for 40k if you scale it off the titans and what FW says the titan size is?

If you scale 40k by the 40k Thunderbolt (11" wingspan) you get 1/57 scale, which is in the ballpark of true 32mm scale to the top of the head.

If we accept 40k is ~32mm scale, that makes AI ~8mm scale.

Scales are always a bit flexible though. Even in historics if you get 1/72 scale infantry models from different manufacturers you'll get a wide range of model sizes. I'm quite happy calling AI 8mm scale based on the balance of evidence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
Vanguard Miniatures' extensive 6 mm ranges have been pictured multiple times alongside new AI models and look good.
Linko? I tried googling and didn't find much. Unless you mean the pictures of infantry standing next to the Warlord Titan's hatch-of-indeterminate-size, haha.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/11/07 03:37:01


 
   
Made in nl
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





The Netherlands

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/07 03:47:00


Bits Blitz Designs - 3D printing a dark futuristic universe 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Cheers. Don't really use instagram, it seems to be where people post pictures of 6/8mm models these days, lol.
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Cheers. Don't really use instagram, it seems to be where people post pictures of 6/8mm models these days, lol.


Yea, forums died when FB arrived, we are dinosaurs.

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in nl
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





The Netherlands

And now Discord is the big thing!

Bits Blitz Designs - 3D printing a dark futuristic universe 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





I cut my teeth on forums, then MSN messenger, then reluctantly FB, and at some point I stopped trying When the kids talk about discord it makes me feel ancient, haha.
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I cut my teeth on forums, then MSN messenger, then reluctantly FB, and at some point I stopped trying When the kids talk about discord it makes me feel ancient, haha.


I started briefly with IRC chat, then briefly with msn before fulltime on TS, skype, ventrillo, mumble(anyone remember that little hype train) before discord took over everything. I feel discord is the natural evolusion of IRC, msn, skype and TS, all in one package. It is everything exepct a discussion plaform like forums are.

You should try and get into it, i doubt it will go away in this decade.
Only thing is, it works bad as a multi topic discussion platform, for that there is only forums.



darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

Discord..... didn't that fall out of fashion in the early 80's?








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Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 Easy E wrote:
Discord..... didn't that fall out of fashion in the early 80's?









Not sure if you have it mixed with a different company, since Discord as a messaging platform was started in 2015.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Grimskul wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
Discord..... didn't that fall out of fashion in the early 80's?









Not sure if you have it mixed with a different company, since Discord as a messaging platform was started in 2015.


Hello friend who clearly gets jokes. I think it was a play on how Discord sounds like the word Disco, which was a style of music that did in fact fall out of fashion in the early 80's.
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

Indeed.

It was also a play on how I am old and out of touch with what the youngsters are up too! Two jokes in one!

A joke explained is a joke enjoyed.

**************************************

On a more serious note, I have heard of people playing some "gird" based wargames via Discord and similar video sharing systems. Has anyone here tried it? Example games include Battletech and To The Strongest.

Anyone try AI, and is it possible due to the grid?

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Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






So, rules for looted imps in orks and tau to imps as converted human auxiliaries, in the last white dawrf magazine this year.

Deseperate move to fill a giant hole in the faction release lineup, or a smart move to promote more "uinque" air wings? idk man..............

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Mostly, on my phone.

FrozenDwarf wrote:So, rules for looted imps in orks and tau to imps as converted human auxiliaries, in the last white dawrf magazine this year.

Deseperate move to fill a giant hole in the faction release lineup, or a smart move to promote more "uinque" air wings? idk man..............

A little from column a, a little from column b... This article was supposed to be much earlier this yeah, though. I for one was raging when it got pulled, but at the same time gave me a reason to buy avengers - 2 for my imps, 1 for tau (that'll double for ghost), and 1 for da ladz

Theophony"... and there's strippers in terminator armor and lovecraftian shenanigans afoot."
Solar_Lion: "Man this sums up your blog nicely."

Anpu-adom: "being Geek is about Love. Some love broadly. Some love deeply. And then there are people like Graven.
2022 Painted model tally: 232 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
So, rules for looted imps in orks and tau to imps as converted human auxiliaries, in the last white dawrf magazine this year.

Deseperate move to fill a giant hole in the faction release lineup, or a smart move to promote more "uinque" air wings? idk man..............

Playing Tau is no excuse not to buy a Thunderbolt! Everyone buy all the things!
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






And ofc, an imp big bomb carrying plane........
How about some ground targets that wing mounted fighter bombs cant damage GW, before you add pointless large bombs....





This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/15 18:52:35


darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

They need to use all the old files re-vamped to the new scale before it is too late!

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
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Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






Agreed.

They said there would be a future look into AI in mid januar, but i suspect that will only showcase a new expansion, or the super long overdue Remora drones.

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

We still need Remora and Marauder Vigilant!

I look forward to the Chaos craft they come out with.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
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Made in au
Been Around the Block




Now the Dec White Dwarf 459 is out, or close to it around the world, what are peoples thoughts on the Looted and For the Greater Good rules?

So Orks can only loot Thunderbolts and Marauders. Honestly I was hoping for a couple more options really, it might have been nice to use a 'stolen' imperial plane to fill a gap in the ork line, like say an Avenger for its agility in one of those low flying at speed missions. Oh well, new rules are better than none and at least people can have options if they like. Conversions could be a little wacky.

I think the Tau have done alright with their human auxiliary options. Does get me thinking about a small combined fleet with Tau and Imperial craft. Just feel like part of the big picture is missing with not knowing when or if those Remora Drones are coming, or if more Tau craft are planned for either.

Orks and Tau can both only take 1 Imperial plane for every 5 from their own list.


So about these rules...
Worthwhile addition? Just a token gesture to fill us over till expansions next year? Or just maybe a bit of Xmas fun?

Either way I'm pleased we got something to play around with over Xmas.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





I don't have the White Dwarf, so I dunno how they work, but in general I've never been a big fan of looted vehicles or the way GW has approached them.

I think a looted thunderbolt would pretty much become a dakkajet once the Orks fit their own weapons and engines to it.

But hey, if it gets more people into the game, cool. I won't be buying any extra models to make looted versions for my squadrons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/20 09:41:01


 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






Yea dont have access to the magazine either, so have to hope it will be in the community download section at some point.
For orks i see this more as a hobby move then gameplay move.

Can the tau take any imp plane?

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in au
Been Around the Block




Not sure if screenshots of the rules are allowable or not? But I can type the main parts

Orks only get looted Thunderbolts (not Fury versions) & the Marauder (Bomber not Destroyer). They are the same as Imperial versions but any additional weaponry - rokkits, wing bombs or big bombs are bought from the Ork list.

Orks can include 1 Imperial aircraft for every 5 Ork aircraft in the force.


The Tau get to use several Imperial aircraft but with maximum limits on each: Thunderbolt Fighters & Marauder Bombers 0-2 ea, Lightning Strikes & Avengers 0-3 ea, Valkyries & Vendettas 0-4 ea. They are the same as Imperial versions with any upgrades and additional weapons chosen from the Imperial list. Tau upgrades or weapons are not allowed on any Imperial aircraft.

Tau can include 1 Imperial aircraft for every 5 Tau aircraft in the force.


Essentially the Tau Human Auxiliary are like Allies.

Personally I'm not sure right now if I'll be buying kits especially to use as Looted or Human Auxiliaries but I could see splitting a box with a friend as an option, so we both get some use out of it. A bit of variety is always nice. Narrative based missions about human helper traitors might be good for a laugh too.
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






With sutch an open selection for the tau then that is a simple emergency move to add models that tau lacks( dedicated transports and normal bombers mainly) and prolly wont get for a very, very long time, if ever.

For the orks the thunderbolt will provide a nice medium range option that they dont have.

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






Right, now that we have SM and a micro release of Eldar and future Necron, might dig up this thread again as i have two SM questions.

What is the weapon ranges for the SM planes in the 2p box, and in general how is SM different from IG in playstyle?

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Right, now that we have SM and a micro release of Eldar and future Necron, might dig up this thread again as i have two SM questions.

What is the weapon ranges for the SM planes in the 2p box, and in general how is SM different from IG in playstyle?


Both the Xiphon and Storm Eagle have quad lascannons, so medium range (0-4-2). The Xiphon also has a rotary missile launcher which is short and medium range (2-2-1), while the storm eagle has similar but more shots from its missile pods (3-3-1) and twin heavy bolters (short ranged).

I haven't played any games with them yet, but the Xiphon looks very similar to a Thunderbolt. Very similar stats, favours medium ranged weapons, but one higher manoeuvre stat and one lower handling than the Thunderbolt.

As for playstyle, again, haven't played a game yet, but they seem decent all rounders with medium to short weapon ranges. They have reasonably high number of structure relative to their points cost, not as good as Tau Tiger Sharks who are by far the kings of structure vs points, but still reasonably good. Xiphons are 3x structure for 24pts, Storm Eagles 4x for 29pts, Thunderhawks are 8x for 44pts.
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






that did not make my job easier, im trying to find out what i should do with my fire raptors as they comes with 3 different wep profile options for the side turrets........
I either want them to follow the general theme of SM ( midrange) or go shortrange.

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
 
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