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In a stroke of bemusement, I realized cultists now get the same save between lasguns and heavy bolters.

The whole thing is a clunky patch on a leaking ship. It satisfies the immediate need of stopping the ship from imminently sinking without needing to put in the hard work of actually repairing it.

It's another sign that the edition is entering End Times territory where it just gets more and more messed up and more and more patches are put on the gaping holes to try to hold the thing together long enough to get out 10th.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
In a stroke of bemusement, I realized cultists now get the same save between lasguns and heavy bolters.

* Verisimilitude intensifies *

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I like how Repentia wearing a t-shirt and short shorts shrugs off more damage than a Necron made out of living metal.

A repentia has a 7+ save and 6++ invul. The ONLY time it can actually benefit from armor of contempt is if it's in cover and being targeted by an AP-1 weapon that ignores INVULS but not COVER.

If you're complaining about the 6++5+++, you're a little late to the party.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
In a stroke of bemusement, I realized cultists now get the same save between lasguns and heavy bolters.

Only the ones who aren't Death Guard or Thousand Sons, though. Those guys lack the necessary contempt, apparently.

Also the nerfs to Custodes were hilarious. Maybe now people will realize Custodes weren't broken but just reliant on a few Strats. They're definitely less durable than Marines now.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Also the nerfs to Custodes were hilarious. Maybe now people will realize Custodes weren't broken but just reliant on a few Strats. They're definitely less durable than Marines now.

'Custodes weren't broken except for the parts where they were completely broken!' is an interesting take.

ERJAK wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Also the nerfs to Custodes were hilarious. Maybe now people will realize Custodes weren't broken but just reliant on a few Strats. They're definitely less durable than Marines now.

'Custodes weren't broken except for the parts where they were completely broken!' is an interesting take.

Honestly they weren't broken. People were just annoyed they had a 4+++ under one host and weren't hot garbage. They're not a hard statline to fight.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's fun seeing people try to defend auto-wound 6's for Guard. Or the weird "Your armour is better except when you have a shield and only if you're a Space Marine or a Sister" stuff. Frickin' wild.

This balance dataslate is basically a cry for help. A giant neon flashing sign saying "We don't know what to do... so umm... more rules I guess?". A complete abdication of logic. A abandonment of nuance or common sense.

It's fething glorious. I'm lovin' it!

 Insectum7 wrote:
Daedelus gonna have his work cut out for him for a while

Nah he's got super strong arms. He'll be fine.

True. True. I do like taking issues where people don't pause to think about the issue and prefer to whine instead.

In this case it appears that GW didn't think about the issues any further than the most superficial sense.

Lasguns kill Orks better than Boltguns now. That's somethin special.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
In a stroke of bemusement, I realized cultists now get the same save between lasguns and heavy bolters.

Only the ones who aren't Death Guard or Thousand Sons, though. Those guys lack the necessary contempt, apparently.

yeah, lets ignore the fact that CSM are still on the 8th edition version of their codex


Automatically Appended Next Post:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Honestly they weren't broken. People were just annoyed they had a 4+++ under one host and weren't hot garbage. They're not a hard statline to fight.

their statline is fine, its the strats that made them over the top............. And yeah, lets disreguard the winrate they got in tournaments.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Also the nerfs to Custodes were hilarious. Maybe now people will realize Custodes weren't broken but just reliant on a few Strats. They're definitely less durable than Marines now.

'Custodes weren't broken except for the parts where they were completely broken!' is an interesting take.

Honestly they weren't broken. People were just annoyed they had a 4+++ under one host and weren't hot garbage. They're not a hard statline to fight.

Then why were people losing that fight 65-70% of the time?

Custodes were busted, they were just busted in a less annoying way than Tau and Harlequins were.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
In a stroke of bemusement, I realized cultists now get the same save between lasguns and heavy bolters.

Only the ones who aren't Death Guard or Thousand Sons, though. Those guys lack the necessary contempt, apparently.

But DG and TS have the relevant HERETIC ASTARTES keyword in addition to their unique ones...

EDIT- Sorry, didn't realise you were on about Cultists. You are just on about Cultists, right?

 Insectum7 wrote:
In this case it appears that GW didn't think about the issues any further than the most superficial sense.

Lasguns kill Orks better than Boltguns now. That's somethin special.

*hyperbole intensifies*

Its important to note that this is not a buff to *lasguns*, its a buff to *guard*, as the rule doesn't limit itself to any one specific weapon or unit. Bolters are still better at killing orks than lasguns are, space marines with a bolter are not better at killing orks than guardsmen with a bolter (yes, I realize that doesn't make it better). By my math a guardsman w a lasgun will do .47 wounds to an ork on avg vs a space marine w a bolter doing .37 without including things like doctrines, orders, etc. Interestingly, even with AP-1 the guardsman w a lasgun will still be better, but if instead of ap-1 you give the bolter S5 you're looking at ~.55 wounds instead.

Also worth noting a guardsman with a bolter is no better at killing an ork than a guardsmen with a lasgun.

I can't help but feel this really should have been an order (as an alternative to FRFSRF IMO) than a baseline ability they have access to all game long. Also, the rule does not apply to Militarum Tempestus, correct? Because if not, thats kinda... wow. The grunts are better at killing stuff than the elite spec ops guys if so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
In a stroke of bemusement, I realized cultists now get the same save between lasguns and heavy bolters.

Only the ones who aren't Death Guard or Thousand Sons, though. Those guys lack the necessary contempt, apparently.

Fair to assume that the new CSM book is going to strip cultists of the necessary contempt as well.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
In a stroke of bemusement, I realized cultists now get the same save between lasguns and heavy bolters.

Only the ones who aren't Death Guard or Thousand Sons, though. Those guys lack the necessary contempt, apparently.

yeah, lets ignore the fact that CSM are still on the 8th edition version of their codex

Oh, I get it. They're armored by the contempt the developers have for them, not by their own contempt. Now it makes sense.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
In this case it appears that GW didn't think about the issues any further than the most superficial sense.

Lasguns kill Orks better than Boltguns now. That's somethin special.

*hyperbole intensifies*

Its important to note that this is not a buff to *lasguns*, its a buff to *guard*, as the rule doesn't limit itself to any one specific weapon or unit. Bolters are still better at killing orks than lasguns are, space marines with a bolter are not better at killing orks than guardsmen with a bolter (yes, I realize that doesn't make it better). By my math a guardsman w a lasgun will do .47 wounds to an ork on avg vs a space marine w a bolter doing .37 without including things like doctrines, orders, etc. Interestingly, even with AP-1 the guardsman w a lasgun will still be better, but if instead of ap-1 you give the bolter S5 you're looking at ~.55 wounds instead.

Don't care. Still dumb.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Also the nerfs to Custodes were hilarious. Maybe now people will realize Custodes weren't broken but just reliant on a few Strats. They're definitely less durable than Marines now.

'Custodes weren't broken except for the parts where they were completely broken!' is an interesting take.

Honestly they weren't broken. People were just annoyed they had a 4+++ under one host and weren't hot garbage. They're not a hard statline to fight.

Custodes players really are a special bunch.
You were broken, and then you got a points reduction on release ffs.

Custodes maintained a pretty solid 60+% winrate until clowns showed up while also having the biggest amount of players week after week.
Custodes were utterly utterly oppressive, and you have the guts to stand there and go "who me? nah that can't be right".

feth me, Custodes players are crybabies.

Custodes definitely needed a nerf. It is pretty funny though that Allarus terminator armor is now worse than normal Space Marine terminator armor.

The custodes players in my local FB group are all crying because they can't autowin the monthly RTT any more. We don't have anyone with 9 voidweavers or 20 crisis suits so the custodes were just stomping on everyone.

 Ordana wrote:


Custodes maintained a pretty solid 60+% winrate until clowns showed up while also having the biggest amount of players week after week.
Custodes were utterly utterly oppressive, and you have the guts to stand there and go "who me? nah that can't be right".

feth me, Custodes players are crybabies.

Why should a custodes player want eldar or tau hard counter him, and have higher win rates? why can't he want to be 60%+ and win rates higher then harlis, tau and everyone else? And crying seems to work. Eldar players whined how they can't get load outs from the art for their autarch and GW fixed it.

All the custodes players can wish for 100%wr if they want, but I'm going to call them crybabies for it.

Karol wrote:

 Ordana wrote:


Custodes maintained a pretty solid 60+% winrate until clowns showed up while also having the biggest amount of players week after week.
Custodes were utterly utterly oppressive, and you have the guts to stand there and go "who me? nah that can't be right".

feth me, Custodes players are crybabies.

Why should a custodes player want eldar or tau hard counter him, and have higher win rates? why can't he want to be 60%+ and win rates higher then harlis, tau and everyone else? And crying seems to work. Eldar players whined how they can't get load outs from the art for their autarch and GW fixed it.

There’s a difference between “I want options that are literally on the artwork” and “I want to be broken in power”.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
so wait whats the point of this rule?
Hammer of the Emperor: If every <Regiment> unit
in your army is drawn from the same regiment, then
each time a <Regiment> model from your army makes a
ranged attack, an unmodified hit roll of 6 automatically
wounds the target. Note that units listed as Advisors
and Auxilla do not prevent other Astra Militarum units
from your army from gaining this rule, but Advisors and
Auxilla units never benefit from this rule.’


I thought 6s already wounded anything regardless?

Sure. But now the <regiment> can skip the roll to wound for anything that HITS on a 6. Any other hits still have to roll to wound as normal.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
True. True. I do like taking issues where people don't pause to think about the issue and prefer to whine instead.

Nah bruv. I meant from strong arms from all the goalpost moving. But you knew that already.

And you're not thinking. You're math-ing. You think that every problem can be explained away if you post a page of half-baked equations. In doing so you miss the wood for the trees:

Guardsmen shouldn't be able to auto-wound literally everything in the game just by hitting on a 6.

It doesn't matter whether this ability is powerful. It doesn't matter whether this ability is not powerful. It doesn't matter if it is unbalanced. It doesn't matter if it fundamentally changes the nature of the competitive scene, or is something that scarcely makes a dent in the meta.

What matters is that it's a stupid rule that should not exist in the first place because it makes utterly no sense in the context of the game, the fluff, or anything else.

How. Do. You. Not. Get. That?

I'm good with doing things for the health of the game if it goes against the fluff slightly, but I think this fails in both areas.

I dunno, I'm sure people playing all infantry guard because they saw that old flashlight comic about how a lot of flashlights do a whole lot of diddly are pretty pleased with this.

In the context of making the game fun for those people, it makes sense.

I read that balance thing, got an alert from GW, two actually as I have two entries in WarCom apparently… had some thoughts.

Old folks might have said ‘it’s like putting lipstick on a pig’.

Poor pig.

Good lord they fethed over custodes hard.

Lost obsec on characters (fair), terminators (drops them to c tier), venetari (drops them to c tier), and told them their defensive strats only work on their troops, and auspice once per game (unlike harlies who you cannot reroll to hit the entire game for their whole army for free, or sallies whom you cant reroll wound rolls for the whole game for free).

They are fething idiotic nuts that dont know how to balance gak.

They gave all marines and soritas -1ap without thinking about how that was gonna overtune alot of chaos gak nor dreads.


All hail our marine overlords again guys.

 Ordana wrote:
Custodes players really are a special bunch.
You were broken, and then you got a points reduction on release ffs.

Custodes maintained a pretty solid 60+% winrate until clowns showed up while also having the biggest amount of players week after week.
Custodes were utterly utterly oppressive, and you have the guts to stand there and go "who me? nah that can't be right".

feth me, Custodes players are crybabies.

Not all custodes players are like that, but custodes have always been the juicy faction for those who wanted to play competitively without investing too much money, too much time painting and too many games learning how to play their army properly. They're the cheapest and easiest to play army and a lot of people chose them ONLY because of that. Also harlequins appeal such players but at least they're much harder to paint and they require some skills since even at their best levels they're still T3 1W guys with T5 vehicles.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
True. True. I do like taking issues where people don't pause to think about the issue and prefer to whine instead.

Nah bruv. I meant from strong arms from all the goalpost moving. But you knew that already.

And you're not thinking. You're math-ing. You think that every problem can be explained away if you post a page of half-baked equations. In doing so you miss the wood for the trees:

Guardsmen shouldn't be able to auto-wound literally everything in the game just by hitting on a 6.

It doesn't matter whether this ability is powerful. It doesn't matter whether this ability is not powerful. It doesn't matter if it is unbalanced. It doesn't matter if it fundamentally changes the nature of the competitive scene, or is something that scarcely makes a dent in the meta.

What matters is that it's a stupid rule that should not exist in the first place because it makes utterly no sense in the context of the game, the fluff, or anything else.

How. Do. You. Not. Get. That?

My equations are often calculated by a program that simulates dice rolls to better determine real outcomes on the table. They're not in the least half-baked. Unless anything that is disagreeable to you is half-baked, then fine.

I guess I'm sorry that my toy dolls don't get me all angry when they don't precisely act according to the fluff. Perhaps an army that has like a 20% win rate and doesn't use infantry offensively could use a good buff until their codex is out regardless of how the mechanic is applied.

Or do we just prefer GW do nothing so that we can continue to bitch at them for not doing anything for Guard ?