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If I have a metal model that is now only available in "fine"cast, is the metal version classed as out of production?

Yes, it is.

Yes, but the model itself is not out of production.

You do not call it "out of production" when they change materials, but only when they actually stop producing the model.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You do not call it "out of production" when they change materials, but only when they actually stop producing the model.

Sure you do. The metal model is OOP, and replaced by a finecast one that might as well not exist for many people. Which meets the sensible standard for OOP, "can I buy this exact model from the manufacturer anymore?".

Thanks. I've just seen a few metal versions of models on eBay with "OOP" in the title when they are available in finecast.

Yes, it is OOP, just like a whole lot of stuff by the time it hits the shelves.
A newspaper is OOP overnight, but you don't see (many) people trying to tell them as such.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
You do not call it "out of production" when they change materials, but only when they actually stop producing the model.

Sure you do. The metal model is OOP, and replaced by a finecast one that might as well not exist for many people. Which meets the sensible standard for OOP, "can I buy this exact model from the manufacturer anymore?".

You can still buy that exact model from the manufacturer, just with a different material.

Calling it "OOP" is standard eBay garbage from sellers who are trying to bump up prices.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You can still buy that exact model from the manufacturer, just with a different material.

Except that's a contradiction. If it's a different material it isn't the exact same model, especially when the different material is finecast. The difference is not trivial for many people.

 edbradders wrote:
Thanks. I've just seen a few metal versions of models on eBay with "OOP" in the title when they are available in finecast.

People can say whatever they want on Ebay. You see OOP slapped onto things that have just had the box art changed, hoping that some sucker will pay more for it than the exact same things another seller has at a steeper discount. OOP has as much relevance and meaning as calling something 'pro painted.'

When I listed a metal carnosaur... I just put "metal" in the title. It's kind of an odd area since they're still producing it in finecast. Imo, you'll get better results with a "Metal" label, than with OOP.

I.e., someone who doesn't like finecast might actually search "Metal Carnosaur"... I feel like they would be less likely to search "OOP Carnosaur".

Particularly in the case of models where there is a different, OOP model that could be called by the same name, "Metal" is clearer and better, imo.

Just my take

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
You can still buy that exact model from the manufacturer, just with a different material.

Except that's a contradiction. If it's a different material it isn't the exact same model, especially when the different material is finecast. The difference is not trivial for many people.

Is the sculpt the exact same?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Is the sculpt the exact same?

Once you finish fixing all the flaws your finecast copy has, maybe. The picture on the box isn't everything, finecast vs. not finecast is a very relevant thing to consider and a model that is no longer available in not-finecast can legitimately be considered OOP.

The definition of "out of print" in part reads:

Out of print refers to an item, typically a book (see: out-of-print book), but can include any print or visual medium or sound recording, that is no longer being published.
The abbreviation OOP (also OP) is a more general term that encompasses craft, hobby, toy, and collectable items that are out of production.
An item goes out of print when a publisher does not reprint, re-press, or reissue after all copies have been sold to retailers.

So in RiTides example the Carnosaur is not out of print if it is metal. More accurately it would be "discontinued". IE: not made in a certain form or material, but made in another.

why do we care? if you want the model get it. If you want it in metal wait till it is offered. I see things listed as OOP all the time on Ebay and take it with a grain of salt as I find it in the original material listed on the manufacturers website.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
You do not call it "out of production" when they change materials, but only when they actually stop producing the model.

Sure you do. The metal model is OOP, and replaced by a finecast one that might as well not exist for many people. Which meets the sensible standard for OOP, "can I buy this exact model from the manufacturer anymore?".

You can still buy that exact model from the manufacturer, just with a different material.

Calling it "OOP" is standard eBay garbage from sellers who are trying to bump up prices.

Is a vinyl record not OOP, if there is a CD with the exact same songs?

 JudgeShamgar wrote:
The definition of "out of print" in part reads:

Out of print refers to an item, typically a book (see: out-of-print book), but can include any print or visual medium or sound recording, that is no longer being published.
The abbreviation OOP (also OP) is a more general term that encompasses craft, hobby, toy, and collectable items that are out of production.
An item goes out of print when a publisher does not reprint, re-press, or reissue after all copies have been sold to retailers.

So in RiTides example the Carnosaur is not out of print if it is metal. More accurately it would be "discontinued". IE: not made in a certain form or material, but made in another.

Yeah, that's my take.

Again, labeling it "Metal" was just a suggestion that worked well for me when I sold something. OOP doesn't necessarily garner you more views unless it is a very sought after item, imo... some OOP things are just junk .

You can do what you like, and it's not really worth arguing over! Obviously a bit of a grey area open to interpretation but a few of us have shared what we thought would be most appropriate, if you're interested.

It would be OOP, though I don't understand why you would want an old finecrap.. er, I mean metal version.

 sing your life wrote:
It would be OOP, though I don't understand why you would want an old finecrap.. er, I mean metal version.

Some people like working with metal, especially over Finecast.

fishy bob wrote:
Is a vinyl record not OOP, if there is a CD with the exact same songs?

There's a demonstrable difference in the content of the CD and vinyl, in addition to the fact that the way they're consumed is different.

The only difference between a metal model that's gone Finecast is that the latter may have more flaws. That's it.

rigeld2 wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
Is a vinyl record not OOP, if there is a CD with the exact same songs?

There's a demonstrable difference in the content of the CD and vinyl, in addition to the fact that the way they're consumed is different.

The only difference between a metal model that's gone Finecast is that the latter may have more flaws. That's it.

Difference between a record and a CD is the material, data is the same.

Difference between a old miniature and finecrap is the material, data is the same.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
Is a vinyl record not OOP, if there is a CD with the exact same songs?

There's a demonstrable difference in the content of the CD and vinyl, in addition to the fact that the way they're consumed is different.

The only difference between a metal model that's gone Finecast is that the latter may have more flaws. That's it.

Difference between a record and a CD is the material, data is the same.

Demonstrably not true - analog storage (vinyl) is not the same as digital storage (CD).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_analog_and_digital_recording

One of the easiest demonstrations is that retrieving data from vinyl (playing a song) damages the vinyl for the next time through.

Yeah, a record to a CD is not a good comparison at all- they're played on different devices!

Whereas on the tabletop, a metal and resin model are fully interchangeable.

It doesn't really matter, but there really are stark differences between those two examples...

rigeld2 wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
Is a vinyl record not OOP, if there is a CD with the exact same songs?

There's a demonstrable difference in the content of the CD and vinyl, in addition to the fact that the way they're consumed is different.

The only difference between a metal model that's gone Finecast is that the latter may have more flaws. That's it.

Difference between a record and a CD is the material, data is the same.

Demonstrably not true - analog storage (vinyl) is not the same as digital storage (CD).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_analog_and_digital_recording

One of the easiest demonstrations is that retrieving data from vinyl (playing a song) damages the vinyl for the next time through.

Alright, so let's make it smaller. A 1997 edition of a CD is replaced by a new print in 2010, with the exact same track list. By the earlier guys definition of what OOP means, that 1997 release is not OOP. But really, it is. And so is a metal figure that's gotten the Finecast treatment.

fishy bob wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
Is a vinyl record not OOP, if there is a CD with the exact same songs?

There's a demonstrable difference in the content of the CD and vinyl, in addition to the fact that the way they're consumed is different.

The only difference between a metal model that's gone Finecast is that the latter may have more flaws. That's it.

Difference between a record and a CD is the material, data is the same.

Demonstrably not true - analog storage (vinyl) is not the same as digital storage (CD).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_analog_and_digital_recording

One of the easiest demonstrations is that retrieving data from vinyl (playing a song) damages the vinyl for the next time through.

Alright, so let's make it smaller. A 1997 edition of a CD is replaced by a new print in 2010, with the exact same track list. By the earlier guys definition of what OOP means, that 1997 release is not OOP. But really, it is. And so is a metal figure that's gotten the Finecast treatment.

No, it's not.

You are arguing semantics without actually paying attention to exactly what you are saying.
If the CD is "replaced by a new print in 2010" but has 'the exact same track list" then it is still the same CD.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
You can still buy that exact model from the manufacturer, just with a different material.

Except that's a contradiction. If it's a different material it isn't the exact same model, especially when the different material is finecast. The difference is not trivial for many people.

Well, technically each miniature is not the same as any other. Their atoms differ from all other miniatures that happen to share a similar shape, so all miniatures are OOP as soon as they are created.

Anyone who is a collector would understand that any tiny difference in a product that is not still in production is OOP.
Just add some foil to a card and it is special!

Do they make the model in metal right now? No? It is OOP.

I prefer metal models over Finecast so I may spend a small percentage more knowing it is metal.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If the CD is "replaced by a new print in 2010" but has 'the exact same track list" then it is still the same CD.

Except that's a terrible analogy because a finecast model is not functionally identical to a metal model. The correct analogy would be if the 2010 version of the CD had half the tracks damaged by printing errors, and every time you tried to use it you had a chance of the CD exploding in the player.

 RiTides wrote:
Whereas on the tabletop, a metal and resin model are fully interchangeable.

But the problem is getting to the tabletop. The finecast model is likely to take a lot more repair work (if you can even salvage it at all), and be a lot more vulnerable to damage. This makes the metal model more desirable for many people, and you can't buy the metal model anymore. Therefore OOP.

Well, I'll give it to you guys seems like the epitome of a 50/50 split, and doesn't really matter to me what you call it

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If the CD is "replaced by a new print in 2010" but has 'the exact same track list" then it is still the same CD.

Except that's a terrible analogy because a finecast model is not functionally identical to a metal model. The correct analogy would be if the 2010 version of the CD had half the tracks damaged by printing errors, and every time you tried to use it you had a chance of the CD exploding in the player.

Could you exaggerate more? It really helps your argument.

 RiTides wrote:
Whereas on the tabletop, a metal and resin model are fully interchangeable.

But the problem is getting to the tabletop. The finecast model is likely to take a lot more repair work (if you can even salvage it at all), and be a lot more vulnerable to damage. This makes the metal model more desirable for many people, and you can't buy the metal model anymore. Therefore OOP.

More desirable != OOP.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If the CD is "replaced by a new print in 2010" but has 'the exact same track list" then it is still the same CD.

Except that's a terrible analogy because a finecast model is not functionally identical to a metal model. The correct analogy would be if the 2010 version of the CD had half the tracks damaged by printing errors, and every time you tried to use it you had a chance of the CD exploding in the player.

 RiTides wrote:
Whereas on the tabletop, a metal and resin model are fully interchangeable.

But the problem is getting to the tabletop. The finecast model is likely to take a lot more repair work (if you can even salvage it at all), and be a lot more vulnerable to damage. This makes the metal model more desirable for many people, and you can't buy the metal model anymore. Therefore OOP.

That's kinda a bad argument, don't you think?

You're buying exactly the same miniature - it looks exactly the same and it functions exactly the same in the purpose it was designed for (ie wargaming). Manufacturing defects shouldn't come into it, otherwise I could sell a defective computer and claim that it's OOP to one currently being produced. By your logic, because the computer is defective and has errors, it is less desirable and therefore OOP.