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I was just wondering what players think of the Colossals?

Too big?

Worth the money?

Do they add anything to the game tat was needed?

Which Colossal is the favorite?

Not all of the Colossals are as good for their faction as each other, but they're all pretty solid.

Stormwall and Galleon are Amazing for what all they can do for their points. Stormwall has a stupid amount of stuff it can do each turn, probably too much, while Galleon just carpet bombs everything, especially if you run it with Bart.

Konquest is not Amazing, but it's solid, and Khador doesn't like running more than one Jack, so this gives them one good Jack to sink their points into in the tournament list that doesn't already include Behemoth.

Judicator is another carpet bomber and will lay waste to everything before it.

Not built my Hyperion yet, or seen it used enough to really comment on what it'll do, but people like it.

The Kraken is a fun one. Used it in one tournament, three games, with eGoreshade and it did something worthwhile every game. That long range gun is a big thing for Cryx as it's new to them.

Stormwall and Galleon see a lot of use in their Factions. THey had a lot of impact on them, and are kind of defining pieces in their competitive playstyles.

The other ones are a bit more limited to specific warcasters in their Factions, such as Hyperion mostly with Ravyn, Kaelyssa or Ossyan, or the Judicator with Severius1 or Feora2. They have a place in their Factions and can be made to do great things in regards to the Faction's playstyle, but not to the same impact that the first do now do, or Prime Axiom probably will do when it lands next month.

Now the Hordes gargantuans are another story entirely.

And stuff.

Yeah, because of the way Focus vs Fury works, the Gargantuans are not nearly as effective as the Colossals. They can still do decent things though, and the Mammoth is Mean. The Mountain King, Arch Angel and Wold Wrath are kind of Meh though.

Gargantuans also suffered a bit I feel of overbalancing at times. It's not just the MAT/RAT scores, but their lack of ranged output compared to some of the colossals is a bit head-scratching. Having a single shot on a PC 20 model miss is one of the more painful things you can experience I think. Then looking at colossals, which all generate 2-8 gunshots a ppiece is kind of unfortunate.

And stuff.

Commander Adept Sully wrote:

Do they add anything to the game tat was needed?

On this, I think they tilt the game towards armour / jacks a bit more. They give more value to focus points and buff spells put on them, and most of them are good at clearing the infantry swarms which had become fairly dominant. Competitive lists need to plan for dealing with them, either by having a way to deal massive damage over 1-2 turns, or to bypass / neutralise the colossals. Something I like is that you don't need a colossal to beat a colossal--had a game a couple of weeks ago where the Galleon was killed by Iron Fangs with Battle Lust, the Conquest was killed by Forge Guard & Long Gunners and they never even shot at each other. By the same token, they take skill to use well enough that they warrant their points, and open up new strategies with some pieces that were low-tier (Battle Mechaniks, Dominic Darius, Montador) before.

All of the Colossals pull their weight. Only the Stormwall & Galleon are really top-tier choices for the respective factions.
The Mountain King & Archangel are total trash with no redeeming value beyond being pretty models. The Woldwrath is kinda a meh take-it-or leave it piece, which works with a couple pieces. The Mammoth is solid, and a great addition to the faction.

If I was to grade them:

Stormwall: A+
Galleon: A
Mammoth: A
Judicator: B
Hyperon: B
Konquest: B-
Woldwrath: C
Archangel: D-
Mountain King: F

I wish Gargantuans had an extra Fury reserve specifically for
balancing out having fewer 'beasts. You know, a bank for letting
a warbeast generate 8 fury without letting them force 8 times.

 malfred wrote:
I wish Gargantuans had an extra Fury reserve specifically for
balancing out having fewer 'beasts. You know, a bank for letting
a warbeast generate 8 fury without letting them force 8 times.

Yeah, but then people would complain about not being able to force them 8 times.

With Mountain King, you kinda have to build a list that will utilize him the best. He is quite decent on his own, but with pDoomy giving rerolls, or various combos giving him +4 armor makes his whelp shedding much more effective. He doesn't do well if he's killed in a single turn. He needs to be able to eat the whelps he sheds in order to get back in the fight.

Chongara wrote:
All of the Colossals pull their weight. Only the Stormwall & Galleon are really top-tier choices for the respective factions.
The Mountain King & Archangel are total trash with no redeeming value beyond being pretty models. The Woldwrath is kinda a meh take-it-or leave it piece, which works with a couple pieces. The Mammoth is solid, and a great addition to the faction.

If I was to grade them:

Stormwall: A+
Galleon: A
Mammoth: A
Judicator: B
Hyperon: B
Konquest: B-
Woldwrath: C
Archangel: D-
Mountain King: F

Extremely accurate

Actually minor correction
Stormwall A+++

Chongara wrote:
The Mountain King & Archangel are total trash with no redeeming value beyond being pretty models.
Archangel: D-

I love how people underestimate the Archangel, right until the part it swoops down from the sky and promptly eats their face off!

Used him in a single tournament so far, in one game it ate a Galleon under Bart + Spiny Growth with a fury to spare.
In the other game it one rounded one of Stormwalls grids just with shooting!

Like most other things in WMH, its not the model that is the problem, its the player behind it.

PhantomViper wrote:

Chongara wrote:
The Mountain King & Archangel are total trash with no redeeming value beyond being pretty models.
Archangel: D-

I love how people underestimate the Archangel, right until the part it swoops down from the sky and promptly eats their face off!

Used him in a single tournament so far, in one game it ate a Galleon under Bart + Spiny Growth with a fury to spare.
In the other game it one rounded one of Stormwalls grids just with shooting!

Like most other things in WMH, its not the model that is the problem, its the player behind it.

Indeed, that player was terrible

He should have never given you a landing spot next to him

Plenty of low point beatsticks can easily destroy a Colossal

 Talamare wrote:

He should have never given you a landing spot next to him

He tried not to. My Hex Hunters had to do some ground clearing first to give the Archangel enough space to land.

 Talamare wrote:

Plenty of low point beatsticks can easily destroy a Colossal

Given enough time, yes.

Under Batten + Spiny and TB + Arcane Shield... Not that many.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Talamare wrote:

He should have never given you a landing spot next to him

He tried not to. My Hex Hunters had to do some ground clearing first to give the Archangel enough space to land.

 Talamare wrote:

Plenty of low point beatsticks can easily destroy a Colossal

Given enough time, yes.

Under Batten + Spiny and TB + Arcane Shield... Not that many.

The Archangel is P+S 19 with some weaker secondary initials. It's damage output is on par with many of the game's more traditional beaters that are half the points, not on a huge base, and actually come with things like relevant special abilities and/or animi.

 Talamare wrote:

Plenty of low point beatsticks can easily destroy a Colossal

Given enough time, yes.

Under Batten + Spiny and TB + Arcane Shield... Not that many.

Chongara wrote:

The Archangel is P+S 19 with some weaker secondary initials. It's damage output is on par with many of the game's more traditional beaters that are half the points, not on a huge base, and actually come with things like relevant special abilities and/or animi.

Such as?

Please tell what legion beast under 10 points has a P+S 22 and 2* P+S 20 with an 11" threat range?

PhantomViper wrote:

Chongara wrote:

The Archangel is P+S 19 with some weaker secondary initials. It's damage output is on par with many of the game's more traditional beaters that are half the points, not on a huge base, and actually come with things like relevant special abilities and/or animi.

Such as?

Please tell what legion beast under 10 points has a P+S 22 and 2* P+S 20 with an 11" threat range?

an ignited/incited/kissed sythean has 7 PS 19's at 9 points and the same threat, more if you count slipstream or leash which is more than enough to murder anything short of a colossal, a buffed diremauler, bronzeback, ect. are very similar as well.

 Grundz wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

Chongara wrote:

The Archangel is P+S 19 with some weaker secondary initials. It's damage output is on par with many of the game's more traditional beaters that are half the points, not on a huge base, and actually come with things like relevant special abilities and/or animi.

Such as?

Please tell what legion beast under 10 points has a P+S 22 and 2* P+S 20 with an 11" threat range?

an ignited/incited/kissed sythean has 7 PS 19's at 9 points and the same threat, more if you count slipstream or leash which is more than enough to murder anything short of a colossal, a buffed diremauler, bronzeback, ect. are very similar as well.

"Short of a Colossal", being the operative words here. If I wan't a list to kill Colossals then it helps if the beasts in the list are capable of one rounding said Colossals.

If I add Kiss to my list as well (which I already did), then I get 5* P+S 24 and 2* P+S 22. If you count Slipstream, then that 9 pts Scythean, now costs 17 pts.

Diremaulers and Bronzebacks don't work for Legion... unfortunately.

PhantomViper wrote:

"Short of a Colossal", being the operative words here. If I wan't a list to kill Colossals then it helps if the beasts in the list are capable of one rounding said Colossals.

If I add Kiss to my list as well (which I already did), then I get 5* P+S 24 and 2* P+S 22. If you count Slipstream, then that 9 pts Scythean, now costs 17 pts.

Diremaulers and Bronzebacks don't work for Legion... unfortunately.

This is the reason the stormwall is good, it has the tools to eliminate the support that lets a single jack or beast oneround it, taking the slowest colossal in the game (the archangel) without 3lylyth and making your gameplan to get into mellee with the other one, isn't a good plan.
legions answer to colossals is the simple fact they can run lots of pretty fast beasts, that are dangerous, and have /plenty/ of tools to remove screens and support, as well as like the only caster in the game that can drop one at range reliably but lets not go there.

There isn't anything besides gorman that costs significantly less than a colossal that can basically remove one from the board, this isn't 40k where your 5 points melta takes out a 250 point land raider, it takes a significant delivery of resources to get the job done.

 Grundz wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

"Short of a Colossal", being the operative words here. If I wan't a list to kill Colossals then it helps if the beasts in the list are capable of one rounding said Colossals.

If I add Kiss to my list as well (which I already did), then I get 5* P+S 24 and 2* P+S 22. If you count Slipstream, then that 9 pts Scythean, now costs 17 pts.

Diremaulers and Bronzebacks don't work for Legion... unfortunately.

This is the reason the stormwall is good, it has the tools to eliminate the support that lets a single jack or beast oneround it, taking the slowest colossal in the game (the archangel) without 3lylyth and making your gameplan to get into mellee with the other one, isn't a good plan.
legions answer to colossals is the simple fact they can run lots of pretty fast beasts, that are dangerous, and have /plenty/ of tools to remove screens and support, as well as like the only caster in the game that can drop one at range reliably but lets not go there.

There isn't anything besides gorman that costs significantly less than a colossal that can basically remove one from the board, this isn't 40k where your 5 points melta takes out a 250 point land raider, it takes a significant delivery of resources to get the job done.

What part of "I one rounded half of a Arcane Shielded Stormwall with shooting from the Archangel (and a little help from the BFS)" did you miss on my original post?

I don't plan to change your minds on the Archangel, internet opinion when it comes to WMH doesn't count for much, this game fortunately isn't like 40k where you grab a net list and start winning tournaments, and for my play style and for my meta the Archangel gets the job done. And what's better, it gets the job done while it is looking cool!

I really love the look of them.

They look how I think 'jacks and heavies should look.

PhantomViper wrote:

What part of "I one rounded half of a Arcane Shielded Stormwall with shooting from the Archangel (and a little help from the BFS)" did you miss on my original post?

I don't plan to change your minds on the Archangel, internet opinion when it comes to WMH doesn't count for much, this game fortunately isn't like 40k where you grab a net list and start winning tournaments, and for my play style and for my meta the Archangel gets the job done. And what's better, it gets the job done while it is looking cool!

The part where you weren't playing against ehaley who arcane shielded, decelerated on the first turn, under feat you weren't able to use the BFS first since their kiss range is FAR under what her feat should be able to deliver, and then delivered the bonded, movement increased stormwall to mellee with his slowed ~16" or so threat range

So, your opponent was likely bad, your dice were on fire, or it was a situation that doesn't really happen in regular game play.
Hopping into a thread and saying "well this one time I rolled 30 6's in a row and killed a colossal with a squad of archers" isn't relevant to the conversation, which I'm assuming is the whole reason you're posting anyway. Saying you killed a stormwall with 1d3+1 pow 14 shots, then saying that 7 pow17's cant do the job, is moronic, go away.

Simmer down please. This is a discussion about toy soldiers after all.

 Grundz wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

What part of "I one rounded half of a Arcane Shielded Stormwall with shooting from the Archangel (and a little help from the BFS)" did you miss on my original post?

I don't plan to change your minds on the Archangel, internet opinion when it comes to WMH doesn't count for much, this game fortunately isn't like 40k where you grab a net list and start winning tournaments, and for my play style and for my meta the Archangel gets the job done. And what's better, it gets the job done while it is looking cool!

The part where you weren't playing against ehaley who arcane shielded, decelerated on the first turn, under feat you weren't able to use the BFS first since their kiss range is FAR under what her feat should be able to deliver, and then delivered the bonded, movement increased stormwall to mellee with his slowed ~16" or so threat range

So, your opponent was likely bad, your dice were on fire, or it was a situation that doesn't really happen in regular game play.
Hopping into a thread and saying "well this one time I rolled 30 6's in a row and killed a colossal with a squad of archers" isn't relevant to the conversation, which I'm assuming is the whole reason you're posting anyway. Saying you killed a stormwall with 1d3+1 pow 14 shots, then saying that 7 pow17's cant do the job, is moronic, go away.

So because I didn't do it against one specific caster then it doesn't count? Are you trolling? Your argument for if a Colossal is good or bad boils down to can it kill a SW under eHaley's feat?

3x boosted POW 19 shots vs ARM 19 = 30 boxes, Stormwall has 28 boxes on each side. Try some math some time, you might like it.

Deceleration doesn't matter just like Arcane Shield doesn't matter because the Naga takes care of it. Yes, I assume I'll have severe difficulties handling the Epic Haley + Stormwall matchup with this list on some scenarios, that doesn't make the Archangel good or bad, it just makes it a bad matchup.

Anyway, this is my last reply to you, feel free to continue to live in your little world where every Colossal that isn't SW with eHaley is bad and should never, under any circumstances, be used...

PhantomViper wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

What part of "I one rounded half of a Arcane Shielded Stormwall with shooting from the Archangel (and a little help from the BFS)" did you miss on my original post?

I don't plan to change your minds on the Archangel, internet opinion when it comes to WMH doesn't count for much, this game fortunately isn't like 40k where you grab a net list and start winning tournaments, and for my play style and for my meta the Archangel gets the job done. And what's better, it gets the job done while it is looking cool!

The part where you weren't playing against ehaley who arcane shielded, decelerated on the first turn, under feat you weren't able to use the BFS first since their kiss range is FAR under what her feat should be able to deliver, and then delivered the bonded, movement increased stormwall to mellee with his slowed ~16" or so threat range

So, your opponent was likely bad, your dice were on fire, or it was a situation that doesn't really happen in regular game play.
Hopping into a thread and saying "well this one time I rolled 30 6's in a row and killed a colossal with a squad of archers" isn't relevant to the conversation, which I'm assuming is the whole reason you're posting anyway. Saying you killed a stormwall with 1d3+1 pow 14 shots, then saying that 7 pow17's cant do the job, is moronic, go away.

So because I didn't do it against one specific caster then it doesn't count? Are you trolling? Your argument for if a Colossal is good or bad boils down to can it kill a SW under eHaley's feat?

3x boosted POW 19 shots vs ARM 19 = 30 boxes, Stormwall has 28 boxes on each side. Try some math some time, you might like it.

Deceleration doesn't matter just like Arcane Shield doesn't matter because the Naga takes care of it. Yes, I assume I'll have severe difficulties handling the Epic Haley + Stormwall matchup with this list on some scenarios, that doesn't make the Archangel good or bad, it just makes it a bad matchup.

Anyway, this is my last reply to you, feel free to continue to live in your little world where every Colossal that isn't SW with eHaley is bad and should never, under any circumstances, be used...

30 boxes is 26 boxes less than a kill
you would never get off all that synergy if the haley player was dictating like a good haley player should be, under feat you aren't going to do any of that

I did not say that anything but the stormwall is bad, You started this with your nonsense that a 9 point model can't take one, then complain about needing support, when you have, what 10-15 points of support for a 20 point model and /still/ cant kill it with the same threat range? thats sillyness

 Grundz wrote:

30 boxes is 26 boxes less than a kill
you would never get off all that synergy if the haley player was dictating like a good haley player should be, under feat you aren't going to do any of that

I did not say that anything but the stormwall is bad, You started this with your nonsense that a 9 point model can't take one, then complain about needing support, when you have, what 10-15 points of support for a 20 point model and /still/ cant kill it with the same threat range? thats sillyness

Are you seriously trying to troll to prove a point or did you just misread all of my posts? I'm going to try and explain it once again.

I said I one rounded HALF a Stormwall under PHALEY with shooting. IF I was able to charge it (which I can't due to TB), I would have one rounded it just like I did the Galleon under Bart. This isn't dices spiking or anything its just math. A Scythean can't do any of this, doesn't matter how much support you get for it.

pLylyth has a 19" range on Parasite.
BFS has a 16" range on Kiss.
Archangel has a 16" range on its ranged attack, 11" on its charge.

Does it have bad matchups? YES.
eHaley with SW is a bad matchup, most of anything Skorne is a bad matchup, most of anything Cryx is a bad matchup. And there are probably a few more that I haven't thought of yet.

Bad matchups don't mean that the Archangel is bad. It provides Legion with a concentrated high-damage output package, both in mellee and at range that we don't have and is a legitimate choice under some of our Warlocks at least (pLylyth, 3lyth, pThags, Absylonia).

PhantomViper wrote:

Anyway, this is my last reply to you

I must have misread this part too

PhantomViper wrote:
[
Bad matchups don't mean that the Archangel is bad. It provides Legion with a concentrated high-damage output package, both in mellee and at range that we don't have and is a legitimate choice under some of our Warlocks at least (pLylyth, 3lyth, pThags, Absylonia).

The awkward thing about the Archangel is that much of Legion's mobility relies on place effects or out of action movements, both of which the Archangel is immune to. It's decent with the handful of warlocks who can give it something else.

That, and the animus is competing with the Feral Warpwolf for worst in the game. Enemies who end their activations within 2" of you will catch fire....which will take another round before it actually has a 2/3 chance of dealing damage.

 Elemental wrote:
The awkward thing about the Archangel is that much of Legion's mobility relies on place effects or out of action movements, both of which the Archangel is immune to. It's decent with the handful of warlocks who can give it something else.

That, and the animus is competing with the Feral Warpwolf for worst in the game. Enemies who end their activations within 2" of you will catch fire....which will take another round before it actually has a 2/3 chance of dealing damage.

That's if they're not immune to fire (Pyre Trolls, Castigators, etc.), laugh at fire damage (Troll Champ bricks, ARM 20+, etc), or actually benefit by running a unit of infantry in to get lit right up (eFeora).