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I'm playing the nova open in a month or so and I'm bringing my bugs. I harbor no delusions of winning it all but I'm making it a goal to have a winning record. That being said, I know I have to be able to beat the following:

1) Wave serpent spam Eldar; probably with an Iyanden-catalyzed Wraithknight warlord.

2( Tau gun line (120 kroot; 3 riptides, 3 broadsides, 2 skyrays, / ethereals)

3) Some combo of the above; Tau with Farseer; Jetbikes; whatever.

4)Daemons two ways; either flying circus or khorne dog spam

5) Necron air; with or without GK allies.

That's a rough gauntlet; the tops as I perceive it. I'm thinking my only hope is an MTO build; hive commander for 2+ reserves and lots of trygons, flyrants, doom in pod, ymgarls and maybe even some normal Genestealers outflanking.

Is this it? What about board control with lots of pyrovores and tervigons? Does the Swarmlord have a place? Hive guard?

Give me your thoughts Dakka! I need a lil help if I hope to please the Hive Mind

You really can't account for all those competitive builds so don't even bother trying. Instead, build a balanced TAC tyranid list.

Units I recommend:

2x Flyratns
2x Troop Tervigons
Doom - Spore

The rest is however you like. If you want to play MTO style, you can take a build similar to jifel's tyranids, with 2x5 ymgarls and perhaps a trygon or mawloc.

If you want a little more balanced, I recommend taking some shooty/support units like hive guards, zoanthropes, gargoyles and biovores.

Nidzilla could also work as well, though it is probably the least balanced of the builds. This will include filling up the heavy support slots with TMC's.

Alright, here's my key unit(s) for this battle:

Doom in Pod
3 Zoanthropes in a Pod

Use reserve modifiers for the 2+ turn 2 and get both these units in. Potentially 5 3dk Leadership checks on MCs of your choosing should make the Wraithknight/Riptide cry puny tears. Now when it comes to Tau, there are some problems, namely interceptor. Use large Mycetic Spores (DP size roughly) to block LoS where possible, and always deploy your models right next to enemy units so Intercepting blasts from the 'Tides can't be placed on them. You want to take Psychic shriek on the Zoeys/Doom by the way.

The beauty of this is, these units are great against all armies. Zoeys can keep Warp Lance and pimp slap a Land Raider around, or take Psy shriek and mess up infantry. And the Doom... well he can do whatever he damn wants to. Mawlocs (I think) will also be great against Tau. I'm trying to find a way to test this theory.

Nova is 1850 right? Try this list out.

Flyrant, Devs
Flyrant, Devs, HC
10 gants
10 gants
18 gants
Tervigon Tox/Adrenal 3 powers
Tervigon Tox/Adrenal 3 powers
Tervigon Tox/Adrenal 3 powers
Doom in SPod
3 Zoeys in SPod
3 Biovores

This should give great utility, and is similar to my 1850 (I drop the Zoeys, a Bio, and add OA to a flyrant plus 2x5 Ymgarls and 2 gants)

Against the lists you've mentioned...

1. WS Eldar: You can take out the WKnight no problem. Focus on killing GJB units then play the objective game while weathering fire. A tough match up but winnable if you can get a Flyrant, or both, behind his lines and blowing up rear armor.

2. Tau Gunline: Biovores must kill Pathfinder ASAP, then Marker Drones. Doom/Zoeys same priority, if you can handle it without them hit the RipTides. As soon as Markerlights go down, bunker in cover and he will not be able to kill the Tervigons. His fear of advancing and healthy gant screens should let you slightly win on objectives. Use Flyrant/reserves to contest objectives and try to cripple troops after Markerlights.

3. TauDar: Combine 1 and 2.

4a. Daemons FMC spam: Daemons are good for us thanks to shadows, cripple his Psychics then use small gant squads to ground FMCs while surrounding your MCs. Once he lands, surround and poison to death, hide FLyrants early and mid-late game take out Plaguebearers on objectives, Doom/Zoeys do same.

4b. Khorne Dog spam: 18 gants with 2x10 behind as meatshields. Try to enfeeble the unit. They have a good deny but once it goes off, drown in Strength 6 Devourers then outneumber with a MASS gant assault, Doom gets Strength up and jumps in if possible, otherwise use reserve units to mash hims troops up.

5. Cron Air: Tervigons hold mid board, they laugh at flyers. Psychic support means enfeeble his Wraiths/Scarabs as they advance, Dakka to easy death. He comes in late, so use this to grab majority of objectives early, you can outlast him easily. make sure to WRAP objectives so he can't late game deny.

Thanks guys! Exaltation all around. How about this:

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 2 sets of TL Brainleech Devourers, Old Adversary- 285 (Warlord)

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 1 set of TL Brainleech Devourers, Toxin Sacs, Lashwhip, Bonesword, Hive Commander- 280

Doom of Malantai: Mycetic Spore- 130

Ymgarl Genestealers x5

Ymgarl Genestealers x5

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs, Scything Talons- 205

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs- 200

Termagants x10

Termagants x10

Trygon: Toxin Sacs- 210

Trygon: Toxin Sacs- 210

Total: 1850

I like the MTO build; I like my chances better trying to overrun these top lista early than trying cagey table control or whatever. Tau shooting and Wave Serpent shooting are just too powerful for that.

So, coming in on a 2+ from Hive Commander, I can have as many as 7 second turn threats after I swoop my flyrants; 8 if the situation demands I outflank a Tervigon (purge the alien). Old Adversary should give me some buffs. Tervigons trade powers for 3 rolls on biomancy; bid for objective control.

Thoughts?

 The Shrike wrote:
Thanks guys! Exaltation all around. How about this:

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 2 sets of TL Brainleech Devourers, Hive Commander- 285

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 1 set of Scything Talons,, Lashwhip, Bonesword, Old Adversary- 255

Doom of Malantai: Mycetic Spore- 130

Ymgarl Genestealers x5

Ymgarl Genestealers x5

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs- 200

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs- 200

Termagants x10

Termagants x10

Trygon: Regeneration- 225

Trygon: Regeneration- 225

Total: 1850

I like the MTO build; I like my chances better trying to overrun these top lista early than trying cagey table control or whatever. Tau shooting and Wave Serpent shooting are just too powerful for that.

So, coming in on a 2+ from Hive Commander, I can have as many as 7 second turn threats after I swoop my flyrants; 8 if the situation demands I outflank a Tervigon (purge the alien). Old Adversary should give me some buffs. I know regen is rarely used but on a 6 wound model; I figure if I regain a single wound ever it'll make back its points. Given how badly Ill need them to stay alive, anything helps. Tervigons trade powers for 3 rolls on biomancy; bid for objective control.

Thoughts?

I would test out Regen, I'm personally not a fan, but the list itself fits "MTO" very well. Against most firepower/gunline armies this should do quite well. Tau especially this would give you a good chance at victory. Out of curiosity, why the CC flyrant?

Lol; model already has a chemically bonded set of lash whip bone sword haha. I honestly don't think it'll be that bad though. I lose firepower and AA; but I gain a beatstick that can do fairly well against other beatsticks haha.

Good list, I'd advise you to swap Regen for Toxin Sacs on those Trygons, Toxin Sacs are really good in today's meta for taking out mechas (Wraithknight, Dreadknight, Riptide) and Daemon MCs, plus re-rolling to wound is always helpful against weaker enemies. Those extra 30 points would be great to give your second Flyrant some dakka, but since you can't you might want to give it Toxin Sacs as well, then spend the remaining 20 on extra Termagants, a gun for the Mycetic Spore, whatever.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Good list, I'd advise you to swap Regen for Toxin Sacs on those Trygons, Toxin Sacs are really good in today's meta for taking out mechas (Wraithknight, Dreadknight, Riptide) and Daemon MCs, plus re-rolling to wound is always helpful against weaker enemies. Those extra 30 points would be great to give your second Flyrant some dakka, but since you can't you might want to give it Toxin Sacs as well, then spend the remaining 20 on extra Termagants, a gun for the Mycetic Spore, whatever.

This^

I would really try, or just proxy, the extra Devs on the Flyrant, as OA makes Scytals redundant, plus Devs are great.

More exaltation! Thanks guys; will see what I can do about the Devourers. I'm not a talented converter; maybe someone in te shop can help me out. As for OA and scytals, the OA is really for other units' benefit.

I agree on Toxin Sacs for the trygons an beatstick Tyrant. With remaining points; that could be devs on te beatstick and scytals on the 1 Tervigon that may outflank someday.

List edited. Thanks!

Have you considered swapping around which Hive Tyrant has Old Adversary and Hive Commander? Old adversary might be more tactically useful on the dakka Flyrant as its less likely to be locked in combat and can therefore swoop over to support units with Preferred Enemy, plus unlike the melee Flyrant it can still do damage while swooping.

EDIT: Also, if you give the melee Flyrant Toxin Sacs, it'll only benefit from Preferred Enemy with ranged psychic powers and wounding high Toughness models, but the ranged Flyrant benefits from PE when wounding any models and both hitting and wounding in close combat against all targets.

Done!

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 2 sets of TL Brainleech Devourers, Hive Commander- 285 (Warlord)

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 1 set of TL Brainleech Devourers, Toxin Sacs, Lashwhip, Bonesword- 255

Doom of Malantai: Mycetic Spore- 130

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands- 210

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs- 205

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs- 205

Termagants x10

Termagants x10

Termagants x10

Trygon: Tocin Sacs- 210

Trygon: Toxin Sacs- 210

Total: 1850

I have less T2 threats, 5 if they all come in, 6 if I outflank the scytal Tervigon. Speaking of, I figure this to be a no-brainer in PTA, I wouldn't be spawning anyway. But what about just to add to the threat load in other mission sets? Since I have the other 2 for board control... Thanks for the help!

 The Shrike wrote:
I thought about some changes. AG on the Tervigons instead of OA's preferred enemy bubble and scytals on the 1 Tervigon...

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 2 sets of TL Brainleech Devourers, Hive Commander- 285 (Warlord)

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 1 set of TL Brainleech Devourers, Toxin Sacs, Lashwhip, Bonesword- 280

Doom of Malantai: Mycetic Spore- 130

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands- 210

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands- 210

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands- 210

Termagants x10

Termagants x10

Termagants x10

Trygon- 200

Trygon- 200

Total: 1850

I have less T2 threats, 5 if they all come in, 6 if I outflank the scytal Tervigon. Speaking of, I figure this to be a no-brainer in PTA, I wouldn't be spawning anyway. But what about just to add to the threat load in other mission sets? Since I have the other 2 for board control... Thanks for the help!

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 1 set of TL Brainleech Devourers, Toxin Sacs, Lashwhip, Bonesword- 280

That hive tyrant is only 255-pts

The list looks good. If anything, I'd drop 2 of the adrenal glands on the tervigons for toxin sacs on the trygons instead.

Flyrants or harpies to catch fast skimmers and assault them.
Doom with psychic shriek to kill the wraithknight warlord he will probably bring.
Gargoyles to kill the wraithknight or wraithguard
Tervigons and gants for troops
Biovores/pyrovores to clean off 4+ save units

I think you'll run into Helldrake spam more than anything on that list. Chaos Space Marines have been the most popular army at the last 2-3 major events. How's the performance line up for that one?

List revised!

I dunno, never faced a helldrake, but seems to me MSU of gants could save me. My flyrants are gonna be after them as soon as they come in. Sure, they'll wipe a gant squad a turn, but as long as I keep pooping, we'll at least trade gants for turkeys.

I suppose it would depend on what augmented the helldrakes. Are my assumptions wrong? Will Tau's proliferation of skyfire make CSM leave Tri-drake at home?

Helturkies also do almost nothing to you MCs.

Nids are strong against CSM (especially nurgle, hello poison)

I don't understand why people only take squads of 10 gaunts. I never start a game with less than 60. 30 seems so puny and any decent shooting army...which most are now day.....can wipe up 30 T3 gaunts in a single turn.

I leave 2 of them in reserve; and 1 squad of 10 can hide.

Nobody_Holme wrote:Helturkies also do almost nothing to you MCs.

Nids are strong against CSM (especially nurgle, hello poison)

....are you joking? Helldrakes are fairly effective against MCs actually. D3+1 vector strikes hits averages 2 wounds, with the baleflamer averging 0.5 more, plus whatever other cannon fodder it clips.

A Winged tyrant's wounds are worth 65 points each. That's 162.5 points of damage on average
A Trygon's (with poison) wounds are worth 35 each. That's 87.5 points of damage on average
A Tervigon (3 powers, poison) wounds are worth ~33 points each. That's 83 points of damage on average, plus probably another 15-20 points of termigants around the tervigon.

That means a helldrake will kill it's point cost in Tyranid MCs in 2 shooting phases on average. Since tyranids have no interceptor options to speak of, they are going to get that first shot off every single time...and unless you manage to kill the drake the turn it comes up, it's going to get a second shot. In 2 shooting phases, with fairly minimal support, you could be looking at 2 dead tervigons and 2 dead tyrants from 3 helldrakes. The silly thing is, is that helldrakes are MORE effective against space marines than they are Tyranids....and they are MEAN to tyranids.

g0atsticks wrote:I don't understand why people only take squads of 10 gaunts. I never start a game with less than 60. 30 seems so puny and any decent shooting army...which most are now day.....can wipe up 30 T3 gaunts in a single turn.

Because no one wants the gants really. They are a tax for getting scoring Tervigons and more free gaunts. A Tervigon averages 21 gaunts it spits out, so the starting 30 plus 3 tervigons spitting out 21 average each is 93....that's more than sufficient.

Do I not get my 3+ against a vector strike? I know the baleflamer is AP3 and ignores cover too; but it's vector strikes should be S7 AP- right?

I'm asking because I haven't faced one before and while my codex knowledge game-wide is reasonable, I may be whiffing here.

Also, you're forgetting I have 3 rolls on Biomancy with the Tervigons and almost always get Endurance or Iron Arm. So either it's harder to wound me or I get an extra roll to negate said wound.

The hive tyrants will be flying and also have rolls on Biomancy; albeit one less.

I'm not saying The helldrakes are crap; they're a concern. But I'm far more worried about Tau, Eldar...and Taudar.

Exalted! Now, retort?

Your first list is almost similar to mine:

Swarmlord- 280

Hive Tyrant: Wings, 2 sets of TL Brainleech Devourers, Hive commander- 285

Doom of Malantai: Mycetic Spore- 130

Ymgarl Genestealers x5

Ymgarl Genestealers x5

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs- 200

Tervigon: Catalyst, Onslaught, Toxin Sacs- 200

Termagants x10

Termagants x10

Trygon: Toxin Sacs- 210

Trygon: Toxin Sacs- 210

Total: 1845

I would advise to take this!

Swarmlord goes for teleport power (telekinesis) and after that biomancy or maybe psychic shriek.
Swarmlord + 2xguants + 1 tervigon deploy onto the field. Flying Hive only deploys if they're no threats and/or great cover.

first turn you wait in cover..but the second turn you will unleash everything! Teleporting swarmlord + outflanking tervigon with reroll + doom + 2x ymgarl genestealers + 2x trygon. Those ymgarl are awsome now with no fearless wounds and terrain placement. The are also the best thing against wave serpents because the cannot claim cover save or use serpent shield.

I think this is the only way to take on the big boys because you cannot outshoot them or just walk towards them with big MC's. You need to get in their face and go for the objectives.

 The Shrike wrote:
Do I not get my 3+ against a vector strike? I know the baleflamer is AP3 and ignores cover too; but it's vector strikes should be S7 AP- right?

I'm asking because I haven't faced one before and while my codex knowledge game-wide is reasonable, I may be whiffing here.

Also, you're forgetting I have 3 rolls on Biomancy with the Tervigons and almost always get Endurance or Iron Arm. So either it's harder to wound me or I get an extra roll to negate said wound.

The hive tyrants will be flying and also have rolls on Biomancy; albeit one less.

I'm not saying The helldrakes are crap; they're a concern. But I'm far more worried about Tau, Eldar...and Taudar.

Exalted! Now, retort?

The problem with vector strikes is that they ignore cover saves (and if I'm not mistaken, also ignore saves) which means you don't get your 3+, AND you don't get your Jink save.

That's why the Helldrake being S7 sucks. Now if you've got IA up on a Flyrant making it T8+ its much less of a concern because while a Helldrake will average 2 hits with Vector strike he's still gotta wound you.

roxor08 wrote:

 The Shrike wrote:
Do I not get my 3+ against a vector strike? I know the baleflamer is AP3 and ignores cover too; but it's vector strikes should be S7 AP- right?

I'm asking because I haven't faced one before and while my codex knowledge game-wide is reasonable, I may be whiffing here.

Also, you're forgetting I have 3 rolls on Biomancy with the Tervigons and almost always get Endurance or Iron Arm. So either it's harder to wound me or I get an extra roll to negate said wound.

The hive tyrants will be flying and also have rolls on Biomancy; albeit one less.

I'm not saying The helldrakes are crap; they're a concern. But I'm far more worried about Tau, Eldar...and Taudar.

Exalted! Now, retort?

The problem with vector strikes is that they ignore cover saves (and if I'm not mistaken, also ignore saves) which means you don't get your 3+, AND you don't get your Jink save.

That's why the Helldrake being S7 sucks. Now if you've got IA up on a Flyrant making it T8+ its much less of a concern because while a Helldrake will average 2 hits with Vector strike he's still gotta wound you.

they don't ignore armour saves, but they are AP 3, which is basically the same thing to Tyranids.

The way you play against heldrakes....and I've killed just about every heldrake I've come up against....is to shoot it in the a$$ with your flyrants.

You need to bait it with a sacrificial unit for it/them to vector strike. If your flyrant has IA or Endurance, you can even use your flyrant. If you position your flyrant properly (i.e. about 36" from his board edge), then after it comes in, overshoot it and then shoot it in the rear. 12 TL-S6 shots will consistently take down rear AV10.

Listen to JY2 he is pretty much the best tyranid player that posts here.also don't fear the hell turkey. I play nids and always will. I have never had a problem with turkeys as most players will accept your bait and they will crash and burn. After you get rid of the turkeys chaos really has no answer for anything.

Wicked post guys, learning a lot in here, thanks.

Thanks guys! Exalted. Yeah, turkeys do sound mean but like I said, eldar, tau and Taudar put the fear of god into me. CSM can make things interesting but I think I'll have the drop on them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ooof. Learned a couple tough lessons today. Faced purifier spam GK twice and got wrecked!

I de pled horribly both games. First game I lost all 3 tervigons by my T2 because I deployed too far forward. Second game, I reserved them all because I was worried that would happen and then auto-lost from getting tables before my reserves could roll!

Is GK purifier spam still run at tourny level? If not, what GK's are? Seems like a tough matchup for bugs.