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Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA

http://business.time.com/2013/02/27/should-credit-unions-have-to-pay-income-tax/

The American Bankers Association, the lobbying group that represents America’s banking industry, has recently launched an ad campaign across Washington D.C. aimed directly at the nation’s credit unions. The print version of the campaign is to the point, reading simply:

“Today credit unions are a $1 trillion industry that pays no income tax. That’s nearly $2 BILLION every year that could help shrink the federal deficit. Now, credit unions want even more perks. It’s time to end credit unions’ indefensible and outdated special treatment. Enough is enough.”

I think it’s worth noting the irony in such a campaign, given that the for-profit banking sector has recently benefitted from unprecedented amounts of government support. Then again, it shouldn’t come as a surprise to find lobbying groups seeking advantages for its members — it’s kind of their job. (Also it should be remembered that the ABA represents banks of every type and size, not just those that have benefitted from TARP and implicit guarantees.)

But what exactly is the ABA’s problem with credit unions? Earlier this month, bipartisan legislation was introduced in the House of Representatives that would increase the limit on the amount credit unions can lend to their small business members. This is an area where community banks compete directly with credit unions, so it’s understandable that the bank lobby would take umbrage at any effort to allow credit unions to compete more for that business.


And it’s not difficult to understand the banks’ argument, either. After all, credit unions are exempt from corporate income tax, a policy that puts them at a distinct advantage because credit unions can undercut taxed banks on the prices of their loans and other services.

So who’s right here? Should credit unions be able to increase the amount of business loans they issue? Or should we keep that restriction — and, for that matter, get rid of the credit union tax exemption altogether?

Credit unions have been exempt from paying income tax since 1916, when the income tax was first instituted, because they are, “organized and operated for mutual purposes and without profit.” Credit unions were also given this advantage because, like Grameen Banks, they were often the sole source of financing for disadvantaged communities whose members had few assets and no way to prove their creditworthiness.

This is the reason that credit union membership has traditionally been restricted to groups that had a single “common bond” — to members of local labor unions, for example, or specific ethnic communities. These common bond requirements were actually used as substitutes for collateral or other credit risk mitigation efforts. Joining a credit union owned by people who already knew you well meant you could more easily prove your creditworthiness. And borrowing from members of your immediate community meant it was more likely you’d pay back the loan.

But accessing banking services is generally much easier for many Americans, and over time the common bond restriction has been eased by Congress. Many credit unions still require members to belong to a certain community, but others do not. As a result, many credit unions look a whole lot like community banks, except for the fact that they funnel their profits back to their customers (really their owners) in the form of higher interest payments on deposits, lower fees, and the ability and willingness to offer reasonably-priced financial services to business and individuals in low income communities.


This last reason is the only compelling argument I find for allowing credit unions to keep their tax-exempt status. By any measure, there is still dire need in certain communities for access to affordable financial services. According to a recent report from the Pew State and Consumer Initiatives, approximately 12 million borrowers spend $7.4 billion on payday loans each year, saddling themselves with exorbitant interest payments that often drive them deeper into debt. This fact alone should tell us that there is a desperate need for more credit unions who take this role seriously, and taxing credit unions will mean there will be fewer serving communities that need them most.

But not all credit unions focus intently on bringing banking services to low-income communities. Which brings us back to the question of whether Congress should increase the statutory limit on credit union business lending, from 12.25% of the credit union’s assets to 27.5%. How this change will further credit unions ability to fill their public purpose is difficult to see. Fred Becker of the National Association of Credit Unions argues that the measure is needed to increase lending to small businesses, and that this lending will help further the economic recovery. But the problem with the economy generally isn’t that banks are unwilling to lend to businesses — commercial and industrial lending is up sharply in recent quarters. The economy’s problem right now is lack of demand for businesses’ products and services, and easing regulations on credit unions won’t change that.

In addition, 70% of credit unions make no small business loans whatsoever, and just a small portion of credit unions who make member business loans are hitting their lending limits. What’s more, loans up to $50,000 don’t count towards the cap. So the case for raising the cap, which was instituted to promote credit union stability and to focus credit unions on their traditional role of promoting access to consumer financial services, feels a bit shaky to me. With so many millions of Americans relying on check-cashing services and payday lenders, shouldn’t Congress be focusing on policies that aid credit unions in helping those folks?


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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I'm not an economist or banking expert, but my lay opinion is "no"; as the goal of a credit union is not to serve as a profit-making institution.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
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 Flinty wrote:
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Decrepit Dakkanaut






I agree completely with Ouze. AFAIK, all money that is being put into their system stays either with the customer, or is in their operating costs.
   
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Revving Ravenwing Biker






Sydney, Australia

I am an economist (well, actuary working in the field of macro-economics) and I would say yes in a perfect world.

It is a price distortion that creates inefficient incentives for investment.

But the sheer amount of tax exemptions and deductions in the US is baffling, this wouldn't be near the top of my list of exemptions to target for removal.

Removing it at the moment... would be longterm benificial (in my mind) but very disruptive in the short term (any one think that's good).

The inherent problem with this sort of reform, when the gov needs the money is exactly when people cannot afford to have it taken away.
   
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WA

 Makaleth wrote:
when the gov needs the money is exactly when people cannot afford to have it taken away.


I like this!

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch

FREEDOM!!!
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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Credit Unions don't make a profit, all money goes back to members and services. So there is no "income" to tax.

Credit Union administrators and employees pay income tax.

There is really no problem other than big corporate banks being butthurt.
   
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Sydney, Australia

 d-usa wrote:
There is really no problem other than big corporate banks being butthurt.


While bank bashing might be in vogue. If this was removed and all of the uptick into big banks was held as an increase in capital I doubt this would be a bad thing for the system.

The distortion has unintended consequences (and uncompetitive banks are not something any country wants long term).
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

I'll agree about credit unions and income tax if I ever agree about income tax being applied to garage sales. And that's never.



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Virginia USA

I'm reading: "Banks are mad customers are leaving for Credit Unions."


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How would this be applied? Credit unions are not for profit. No profit, nothing to tax, right?

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feeder wrote:How would this be applied? Credit unions are not for profit. No profit, nothing to tax, right?

The idea behind the bank lobbyists is that the credit unions should have to pay income tax on their gross income, prior to the funds being reinvested and distributed to its members for a net total of zero profit.

In other words, the banks want the credit unions shut down.
   
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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 azazel the cat wrote:
In other words, the banks want the credit unions shut down.


Well, obviously. The alternative would be attempting to compete for customers by offering a better product, which sounds like a lot of work.

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 Flinty wrote:
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Man....did not believe so much hate for Navy Federal Cred and USAA....they're like the two biggest Credit Union in use by the military and its not an open enrollment.

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Virginia USA

Actually USAA is a bank, not a CU, but it is a very good bank.


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Comrade thanks for the correction. They do offer the best rate for vehicle insurance....been a long time since I used them for my finance..

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RIP Muhammad Ali.

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 Ouze wrote:
 azazel the cat wrote:
In other words, the banks want the credit unions shut down.


Well, obviously. The alternative would be attempting to compete for customers by offering a better product, which sounds like a lot of work.


Banks pissed me off one too many times years ago, and I went to a credit union. Life has been good since.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:
 Makaleth wrote:
when the gov needs the money is exactly when people cannot afford to have it taken away.


I like this!


If I had the Photoshop skills, I would find a picture of a national monument and make it look like those words were inscribed.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/24 04:25:58


 
   
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Believeland, OH

Lately people have been flocking to credit unions, banks are upset about this. This is not news. No profit should equal no taxes, the NFL does the same thing, all profits are disbursed = no income tax. Id be up with finding ways to tax the NFL before credit union.

The issue is that we know banks are pretty powerful and hold a lot of influence. Luckily the credit unions have basically all joined together, so maybe they can fight this.

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Relapse wrote:
 Ouze wrote:
 azazel the cat wrote:
In other words, the banks want the credit unions shut down.


Well, obviously. The alternative would be attempting to compete for customers by offering a better product, which sounds like a lot of work.


Banks pissed me off one too many times years ago, and I went to a credit union. Life has been good since.

I have never used the services of a bank (beyond perhaps an ATM on rare occasion); my credit union has never given me cause to try them out.
   
Made in au
Revving Ravenwing Biker






Sydney, Australia

feeder wrote:
How would this be applied? Credit unions are not for profit. No profit, nothing to tax, right?


Not exactly true, there is a reason there is a law exempting CUs from tax. Accounting is rarely that simple.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
I'll agree about credit unions and income tax if I ever agree about income tax being applied to garage sales. And that's never.


Technically... Income tax does apply to Garage Sales already. The difference between sourced goods paid and the excess would be taxed (on a net basis). I doubt that most Garage Sales would ever really make profit on that definition which would mean that they do pay the tax they are required to... being $0.

A good example is... if you bought something for $50 that you sold at a garage sale for $100 million... and the IRS found out... is the Garage Sale something that they would say "Darn!! Foiled by the method of sale!"... I think not

The difference is... they would never pursue you for this tax.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/24 05:55:53


 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Jihadin wrote:
Man....did not believe so much hate for Navy Federal Cred and USAA....they're like the two biggest Credit Union in use by the military and its not an open enrollment.



Most CUs that I can think of off the top of my head are not "open enrollment" either.. Back home you have/had MAP for 'teachers and educators", there was one for "government employees", etc etc. I personally think that they offer an excellent product to their members and should be left alone. I know that MAP exists/existed because we all know that public school teacher's salary is gak, and that CU offered their product for teachers, to help them get the most bang for the buck in "storing" that money. (I can't remember though if MAP is still around as such, if it folded, or if they merged with another Credit Union)
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





My answer is no, because in a roundabout way the profits of credit unions are taxed. That taxing gets hidden because we call the shareholders 'deposit holders' and the income they generate from their investment 'interest' but the end result is the same.

If you invest $1,000 in a bank, you do it by buying shares and this produces a revenue stream back to you through dividends. This revenue stream is taxed.

If you invest $1,000 in a credit union, you do it by making a deposit and this produces a revenue stream back to you through interest. This revenue stream is taxed.


Now, you might point out that those dividends are taxed both as company profit and as personal income, while that interest revenue is only taxed as pesonal income, and you'd be right. But that's simply an argument for the US to stop dicking around with taxing different forms of income differently depending on how they are classified (especially as many are classified twice and double taxed) and instead bringing some damn sense to the whole system.

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Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
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Lakewood, Ohio

This whole idea pisses me off... I don't use credit unions, but the banks have already proven they don't know wtf they're doing.

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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Absolutely not.

If the banks want to compete with credit unions they'll have to start doing that. Make investing in your bank look attractive.

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 Grey Templar wrote:
Absolutely not.

If the banks want to compete with credit unions they'll have to start doing that. Make investing in your bank look attractive.

Agreed.

Agree with d-usa too... this reads to me that the Banks are getting butthurt about this.

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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Indeed. Lets use that Capitalism people! Rah rah rah

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Alfndrate wrote:This whole idea pisses me off... I don't use credit unions, but the banks have already proven they don't know wtf they're doing.

Oh, I think they've proven that they know exactly what they're doing. You mistake is thinking that the banks are working in your best interest, and are simply not good at it.
   
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WA

All I know, is that if I can't use a credit union I'm keeping all my money in a safe at my house.

"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa

"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch

FREEDOM!!!
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I say we ban the banks and only have credit unions.

   
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Lakewood, Ohio

 azazel the cat wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:This whole idea pisses me off... I don't use credit unions, but the banks have already proven they don't know wtf they're doing.

Oh, I think they've proven that they know exactly what they're doing. You mistake is thinking that the banks are working in your best interest, and are simply not good at it.


haha I was talking more about the gak that started our whole recession thing, but you're correct as well .

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Alfndrate wrote:
 azazel the cat wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:This whole idea pisses me off... I don't use credit unions, but the banks have already proven they don't know wtf they're doing.

Oh, I think they've proven that they know exactly what they're doing. You mistake is thinking that the banks are working in your best interest, and are simply not good at it.


haha I was talking more about the gak that started our whole recession thing, but you're correct as well .

So was I.
   
 
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