Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi. I'm new to 40k and would like to get some advice on an all comers list before I go buy all the models. I would like to play fairly competitively.

HQ
Librarian tda ss force axe 140

Troops
10 x tacs flamer plasmacannon rhino teleport homer 225 x 3

Elites
5 sternguard 5 combi meltas drop pod 185

5 tac terminators cml chainfist 235

Fast Attack
landspeeder hb typoon 90 x 2

stormtalon typhoon 140 x 2

Heavy Support
Predator autocannon las sponsons 120 x 2

total 1935

...so...

sternguard suicide.
Tacs combat squad and seek objectives.
Libby and termis strike where needed most.
Landspeeders offer distraction and support for preds to do their thing.
Talons for anti air or if not then where needed against infantry and av.

I've still got 65 points to play with. Not sure where to go. I'm open to anything really.

Should I swap preds for vindis? Go assault termis instead of tacs? Thunderfire cannon?Any obvious holes I'm missing?

Thanks in advance, I appreciate the effort.

Jamo

Hello

stormtalon typhoon are 145 not 140, plus I would swap them out for sky hammer missile. 3 str7 is better an 2str8 in my mind Nd so much more cheaper.

You also don't really need 3 locator becons as scattering and deep strike mishaps isn't as bad as you think.

I would drop down to skyhammers due to the cost. I would also run TH/SS terminators to save some more points. With those changes you have 130 points to play with. You could take the sternguard up to 10 and buy 1 more combi-weapon. DS and combat squad. Dropping the teleport homers would give you 30 more points to play with. You could then take a couple plasma guns for some tac squads. Furthermore, you could drop the plasma cannons and take missiles for the tacs which frees up 15 more points. MLs are a solid choice for tac squads. These changes don't really alter the theme and allow you some more bodies on the field.

As far as TFC, ymmv but I love them. They rain death upon infantry and have superior range against things like HWT and long fangs.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks Sam and Pdawg!

Ok so I dropped the talons to skyhammers, you're both right it does free up alot of points.

Dropped homers.

As for assault terminators how best to deploy? Wouldn't they be useless on the turn they arrive?
This was my reason for tactical terminators. I won't take a laindraider it deprives the list.

Would it be better to go for another unit of sternguard instead? Admittedly I'd have no cc units but I'm going more for a shooty list anyway. Two units of stern in rhinos with a bare Libby each could be good. Any thoughts?

Thanks again

Jamo

Using your list as a rough basis, how does this sound to you?

Libby (TDA, Stormsheild)
Sternguard (10)(5 x combi melta, drop pod)
Sternguard (10)(5 x combi melta, drop pod)

Tac (10)(Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Rhino)
Tac (10)(Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Rhino)
Tac (10)(Plasma Cannon, Plasma Gun, Rhino)

Stormtalon (Skyhammer)
Stormtalon (Skyhammer)

Predator (AC, HB)
Predator (AC, HB)
Thunderfire Cannon

Heavy hitting, mobile and plenty of models on the board.

Alternately, swap out the PC/PG on one or two tac squads for Missile Launchers, freeing up 15 or 30 points for other stuff (more combi's on the Sternguard for example or changing a Rhino to a Razorback (TL HB) + a couple extra combi's)

Personally, I don't like using Terminators in a general TAC list. They just cost so much for so few of them and with the amount of AP2 being thrown around the 2+ armour save isn't much of a bonus. I'd rather see a lot more sternguard with their special ammo than a few Terminators.

Thanks Rorshac.

I do like the idea of sternguard over terminators. It's definitely the direction I want to go.

Libby 100

10 x tacs plasmagun ml rhino 215 x3

5 x sternguard 4 combi meltas drop pod 180

8 sternguard 8 combis rhino 275

10 sternguard 4 combi meltas 180

Stormtalon skyhammer 125 x 2

Predator autocannon las sponsons 120 x 2

2000

I think this is better than my first list. It gives me more bodies and more options of play.

Now though I don't know how to arm my Libby? Any thoughts?

Cheers
Jamo

Personally, I would put 10 sternguard in the drop pod, combat squaded, one half with combi-melta, one half with combi-plasma. That way, you can drop in, pop a priority transport, and gun down the passengers with plasma. Do as much damage as possible before they bite it (and it works nicely against Wave Serpents loaded down with wraithguard)

Also, I know it costs more, but I've never had any luck with the skyhammer missiles. The typhoons always earn their keep for me (they pop other flyers, wraithguard, and tau crisis suits like a champ!).

Ok, so I made some math errors on my last list so am here to fix it up. Also made some slight tweaks. Feedback welcome.

@ClasssicCarraway Thanks for reply. I don't really want to spend that many points on a suicide unit. I'm still deciding if I want to suicide a unit of stern or shelter them in a rhino?



libby 100

10 tacs plasmagun ml rhino 215 x 3

7 sternguard 6 combis rhino or drop pod 215

9 sternguard 9 combis rhino 305 ( libby goes here)

landspeeder typhoon 90 x 2

stormtalon typhoon 145 x 2

predator autocannon las sponsons 120 x 2

2000 points

A decent number of bodies without having to cut back on any armour. I'm still undecided on the landspeeders though. Any opinions are very welcome.

Also, would that 7 man sternguard squad be better in a drop pod as alpha suicide or run mid close field for a chance to deal damage for more turns? I'd really appreciate some advice on this one.

Thanks
Jamo

I love to run 2x 10 man sternguard units in pods with a dead pod to make sure the manned pods come in round 1. I'd also reconsider the libby and free up more points to field Pedro to make those sternguard units troop choices....in the severe off chance they live. Pedro isn't needed obviously and may also not fit into your build idea. I kit my sterns out with 8 combi's and 2 meltas in one and melta/mm in the other. Use combat squads to split fire and pop as much rear armor as you possibly can round 1. It is a suicide unit but its a good distraction to throw at your enemy and it becomes something they have to deal with or it will cause them problems. Just my thoughts

Hey RavenGuard, Thanks,

I've been tempted to field Pedro, if only so I can put out more sternguard, which would be awesome I know.The only thing holding me back is the loss of combat tactics.

How important are combat tactics exactly? If I lost them would I need to arm my sarges with cc gear to accomodate? Or do I just make do?

I guess pedro would help one squad. What about the rest?

Cheers

I mistyped that early post. Pedro doesn't make sterns troop choices, he makes em scoring units so you can still only take max 3. As far as combat tactics, it depends on your play style honestly. I used to play a sit back and shoot army and lost way more times than I cared to count. I started playing more aggressive and my win percentage started going up. Pedro isn't needed though and you still get the sternguard harrassment in the backfield of your enemy. I just started using an epistolary libby and have had good results as well.

Ok. So if I went for pedro, and like you say adopted a more aggressive outlook, would the rest of my list fail to compliment? I would still have my preds sitting back doing their thing,would they need support as I would be dropping my rhino count. I worked it out to having four rhinos three drop pods.

A mixed list I guess and like you say having two 10 man stern units thrown in your face could divert attention from my backline long enough for them to take up firing positions.

How would my rhino units fair without combat tactics? Would I need to be aggressive with them also?

I really like the idea.How viable is a mixed list?

Cheers

No matter what list you run or how you play your marines, if your rhinos are still on the table by the end round 2 you should be amazed. And I'd say the rest of your list looks solid. You have enough units to create a decent fire base and enough still to provide alot of harrassment. Even with running the libby I'd say the list looks solid.

I think you may want to consider plasma cannons for your rhino'ed up tactical squads. It will definitely do more damage that a ml, and still can be fired once your rhino moves. Also, rhinos are pretty damn survivable. I've had them live through a game. Also a rare suggestion; if you plan on making a moving tactical squad you may want to A) take a snapfireable HB (3 shots have a 1/2 chance of hitting once on a move and will probably do more damage than a bolter) B) not take a heavy weapon.
And regardless of the fact that a deepstriking TAS is useless on the 1st turn the 3++ and 2+ means they will probable survive to ruin someones day.
Here is my favorite tac loadout

10 men
Meltagun
Missile launcher
meltabombs
power weapon.

btw do you proxy combiweapons or do you have a bunch?

 Largeblastmarker wrote:
I think you may want to consider plasma cannons for your rhino'ed up tactical squads. It will definitely do more damage that a ml, and still can be fired once your rhino moves. Also, rhinos are pretty damn survivable. I've had them live through a game. Also a rare suggestion; if you plan on making a moving tactical squad you may want to A) take a snapfireable HB (3 shots have a 1/2 chance of hitting once on a move and will probably do more damage than a bolter) B) not take a heavy weapon.
And regardless of the fact that a deepstriking TAS is useless on the 1st turn the 3++ and 2+ means they will probable survive to ruin someones day.
Here is my favorite tac loadout

10 men
Meltagun
Missile launcher
meltabombs
power weapon.

btw do you proxy combiweapons or do you have a bunch?

This is a perfect example of a Tactical squad I would never take.

1) In the meta people are abandoning vehicles, so the prospect of taking melta guns in your standard infantry squads is a bit silly for that reason alone. Secondly, you need to sacrifice the firepower of the other 9 members of your squad, who should be pumping bolt shells into infantry, to fire it. Thirdly, one shot is not very effective or reliable at all. And finally , it means you're not taking a plasma gun, which is effective against MC's, heavy and standard infantry, to the extent it is often the deciding factor when you need something dead.

2) I never footslog Marines and I never take heavy weapons in my mechanized squads. They're scarcely effective and they clash with your need to reach objectives and quickly wipe enemies off them, often as a result you're snap firing or just not at all.

3) Even if you were to, the Lascannon would be an infinitely better choice because it is a threat to MC's, an extra source of AP2 firepower and a complete sucker for lucky kills.

4) Meltabombs are pointless, you've already got krak grenades that hit on rear armour and there's only one vehicle in the game that has a high level vehicle armour, and that's a Land Raider, which is usually filled with things you don't want to get close to.

5) CC weapons are a waste of points, pure and simple because Tactical Marines suck at CC and a PW won't make the difference against any type of target you can name. Horde of killy Orks/Nids? You're done anyway. Elite CC unit? Dead anyway. Terminators? Yeah, dead.

6) And while it actually crushes me to say this, as I have always ran Marines this way, the Rhino Mechanized archetype isn't playable anymore. All that you accomplish by having 30-50 Marines in Rhinos is the ability to take more objectives and sustain unit wipe out disasters slightly better. That's worthless in 6th though, because the man with more than two brain cells that devotes his points to killing power will just annihilate them while they're on or while they're traveling to the objectives. On top of this, Rhinos are far from survivable, and although almost noone is aware of the fact, if a shaken/stunned result happens to a transport, all of its passengers suffer the same effects upon disembarking or bailing out in an explosion - see the FAQ.

OK thanks guys.

So... concerning transports would drop pods be the better option? Gets the guys close to where you want them without stuffing around. I'd have two units of stern three of tacs, all in pods so thats 5. A good number.

I'm still leaning towards sternguard at the moment. Two pods of stern combat squadded backfield first turn sounds nasty. Considering ditching libby for lysander,just coz he wrecks stuff. Any thoughts?

As for tac loadouts I'm going plasmagun no heavy no cc no meltabombs. This sounds most competitive. That extra bolter shot could equal one more dead enemy if I've got to move around.Plus all weapons are rapid fire. I like it.

Thoughts please?

Cheers

i didnt read through all of the posts, but here's my few cents and examples of the way i run squads

tac marines- flamers and ML, and ML are not worth it all the time if you take rhino's considering you can't fire when you disembark. consider combat squadding and keeping the ML camped on a homebase objective. also, avoid CC weaons on your sarge. SM don't fare well in CC. you should be firing from a distance, and if you do find yourself stuck in CC the extra attack isn't really going to do much for you. if anything, odel your sarge with a CCW and bolt pistol, eith a boltgun slung on his back just so you can differentiate him from others. most people shoud be okay with that amd if they aren't you probably don't want to play with them anyway.

sternguard- awesome, but the combi weapons are hit or miss for me. there's a 50% chance you won't hit with it when you shoot, and then on top of that you might not wound. sure, they are only 5 pts each, but i would rather save points and upgrade elsewhere. the stock weapons they use are good enough for me. also, DON'T forget sternguard get TEO attacks each if you find yourself in CC with them.

scouts- take 'em. well, YMMV but i've never regretted it. ESPECIALLY when i stick telion in there. he's 50 pts but you don't need to spend the points on camo cloaks if you plan on using them, and he has a nice high BS coupled with an awesome gum which allows yyou to allocate the wound he causes. i prefer my scouts with all sniper rifles. some disagree, but it's nice to have those long range shots that wound on a 4+ regardless.

rhino's- yeah, they are helpful in keeping you alive, but i feel they really hinder your ability to put early game hurt on your opponent. i used to always run them, but i find that i am switching over to drop pods more often now.

razorbacks- can be good if you plan on combat squadding your dudes mainly because of the weapon upgrade. if you want to put a bit more hurt on the opponent, giving them TL assaut cannons can be great. it makes them a hell of a lot more expensive, but worth it in my opinion.

terminators- footslog your shooty ones. if you run assault termies find a reliable delivery system. assault termied in a land raider can be dangerous, but super expensive. on top of that you are putting a lot of eggs in one basket. setimes i like to stick a libby in termie armor with my assault teries and use gate of infinity to zip around the board and harrass people. a libby in termie armorr is another story though

libby- keep him cheap. if you are playing games upward of 1750 then upgrades can become useful, but lower than that you are starting to invest too much in an already useful guy who shouldn't really be in a position to be shot at/ attacked anyway

thunderfire cannon- take it. take two take three. at 100 points each you can't afford to NOT have it. 4 potential small blast hits that can ignore cover or cause dangerous terrain tests. great for wiping out hordes of infantry and lightly armored vehicles.

take my advice with a grain of salt though. the meta is different everywhere, and combined with your general skills as a player different things work differently for everyone. find people who are willing to let you proxy before you asseble weapons on certain things and try out everything you can. go into your game store durimg a tourney and try to get an idea of what your local players are running amd build around that. also keep in mind that we have a new book coming up sometime in the near future. finally, WELCOME TO 40K AND HAVE FUN!

Thanks Chadbacca, that is one awesome post, I really appreciate it. Not Only have you given me a quick 101 but you've reminded me to just have fun with it. I was getting too caught up too early... Sheesh...

I think I'll just field pods with basic tacs some sternguard and the other obvious no brainers. Keep it simple stupid! I know it's worked for me in the past enough!

Thanks again Chadbacca- very refreshing!

guh. typing on my phone= a lot of typos. sorry.

No probs same here, I use the delete button more than any other button

definitely. my main opponent runs space wolves with no tanks. he takes hordes of guys, which gives me ample opportunity to experiment with hordes of high toughness 3+ saves. i am always outnumbered and always having to try and figure out ways to penetrate armor.

Hey Chadbacca would you mind giving us a rundown on librarians. I plan on running him with terminators. No land raiders. Probably tac termites not really sure yet. Cheers man

If you plan on running 5 pods to get your guys in the fight, just remember that half rounded up come in turn one, that means you're rolling for the other two. The last thing you want is models still on the table when you're getting wiped out. That means you need 9 pods to drop all 5 squads in round one. If you don't mind rolling and delaying your reinforcements a turn or two then its a good move. I agree with using rhinos just don't expect em to last long. Fielding razorbacks is a good strategy to a certain extent. Keep your heavy weapon back stationary so you get the most out of it and roll up the other combat squad in the razorback. You get a TL/HB out of the deal for another 5 points over a rhino as well.

@ Largeblastmarker Thanks for your reply

I'm magnetizing my sternguard so I have endless options for loadout. I don't plan on proxying as I like the idea of wysiwyg. I'm not gonna be a dick about it tho. The odd character or vehicle would be ok, but not entire squads, I don't wanna put my oppOnent at a disadvantage by confusing them. Plus I'd appreciate that sentiment in return.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Largeblastmarker Thanks for your reply

I'm magnetizing my sternguard so I have endless options for loadout. I don't plan on proxying as I like the idea of wysiwyg. I'm not gonna be a dick about it tho. The odd character or vehicle would be ok, but not entire squads, I don't wanna put my oppOnent at a disadvantage by confusing them. Plus I'd appreciate that sentiment in return.

For 10 man sternguard squads I find it better to just have 5 combi meltas and then have the other 5 guys use hellfire rounds. Just as effective on infantry (wounding on 2+) without the danger of getting hot and melting yourself.

Jamo wrote:
Thanks Rorshac.

I do like the idea of sternguard over terminators. It's definitely the direction I want to go.

Libby 100

10 x tacs plasmagun ml rhino 215 x3

5 x sternguard 4 combi meltas drop pod 180

8 sternguard 8 combis rhino 275

10 sternguard 4 combi meltas 180

Stormtalon skyhammer 125 x 2

Predator autocannon las sponsons 120 x 2

2000

I think this is better than my first list. It gives me more bodies and more options of play.

Now though I don't know how to arm my Libby? Any thoughts?

Cheers
Jamo

I like this but drop the Libby and take Pedro for more scoring units!!!

Cheers Jpat, that makes sense.


Pedro 175

10 tacs flamer ml drop pod 205 x 2
snipers camo 90

10 sternguard 5 combi meltas drop pod x 2

landspeeder typhoon 90 x 2
stormtalon skyhammer 125 x 2

predator autocan las sponsons 120 x 2

total 1965

any thoughts?

Since your drop podding I'd say make the 10 man tact squads with meltas over flamers add heavy Flamers to your sterns and enough to make anothe sterngaurd squad... This way you have plenty of marines still but more hf/melta on the table with your drop pods the magic number is either 1-3-5 because you want the most amount of bodies to come on asap infact to do so you could drop the scouts and if still needed drop the speeders/press and you could change them to thunder fire cannons(best sm option IMO). The sterns don't have to be 10 man unless you want to sucide them in that case a great load out x4 combi melta(or plas it's up to you) and 2 heavy Flamers(tact 2 melta 1 flamer per and you ave a unit that can bring pain anywhere) happy hunting!

Hey Jpat, your reply has typos and I can't really understand it. Reckon you could explain it clearer?

Cheers
Jamo

Thanks for the edit Jpat.

ok so, this is a high risk force, but here goes

pedro 175

10 tacs multi melta combimelta flamer drop pod 215 x 2

10 sternguard 4 combimelta 1 heavy flamer drop pod 315 x 3

stormtalon skyhammer 125 x 2

thunderfire 100 x 2

total 2000

basically jump right in and hope for the best. Great fun tho.
I might run this as a second list just to have some fun with.

any thoughts?