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Hi all

Here is my problem.

Ive got a match coming up against Dark Angels. Its a 500p match, Purge the alien with Dawn of war deployment. 1 hq and 2 troop minimum.

The last three games Ive been completely destroyed by las cannon fire.

His usual list includes

1 x librarian
2 x Tactical squads
2 x Devastator squads with 4 x las cannon in each.

Luckily for him he has been able to start all games so far, and blown away any vehicles Ive tried to bring in the first turn.

Only thing I haven't tried yet is bringing a D-lord with wraiths to shield him, but I am afraid that even with their 3++ they will be dead pretty fast from all the las cannon fire.

Any help would be appreciated

Uugh, 2 troop minimum sounds lame.
It really sucks for Codices where the troops are meeh in small numbers.

But I'd try a Wraith-bomb on him.
6 Wraiths, all with 3++ and a D-Lord
That with 2x 5 Warriors leaves enough room to upgrade the Wraiths and the Lord a bit.

You are right that the 2 troop minimum sucks hehe, but we are playing on a planetary map with lots of different hexes with different point costs, and did not think about a minimum of 2 troops being a problem on the 500 point hexes.

I guess Ill try the wraith and D-Lord on him and hope the dice gods gives me a little help 8).

What are you taking and what do you have to work with?

His list comes out at 505 points if he takes no upgrades except the lascannons.

Try this list, it could flop real bad or be rather lols

Overlord , semi, res orb = 135

5 crypteks = 125
make 1 despaittek with viel = +35

1 lord with phase shifter = 80

5 warriors = 65
5 warriors = 65

Thats 505

Put overlord in royal court and ds them into his lines 1st turn, then blast some sucker with 18 str 5 Ap 3 shots, and maybe a AP 1 template, his 5 man squads are going to die.

You have 3++ to soak up some lascannons hopefully, and a 4+ that they come back

Advance with the warriors to lay down some more fire aswell

Holy Ork poop! A shooty Court at the 500pt level?
That's GENIUS!

I might suggest a slightly different build, though

Overlord (Sep.Weave) = 105

1 Lord (ResOrb) = 65
4 Generic Crypteks = 100
1 Despair-tek (Veil) = 60

5 warriors = 65
5 warriors = 65

Total = 460

Now, with the remaining 40 points you can either:

• add another Generic Lord (+35)
• remove 2 Generic Crypteks (-50) add 3 Scarab bases (+45) and a Tomb Spyder (+50)
• turn one of the Generic Crypteks into a Chrono-tek (+15) and trade one unit of 5 Warriors for 5 Tesla Immortals (+20)
• remove one Generic Cryptek (-25) and add 3 Tesla / 2 Particle Beamer Tomb Blades (+60)

Personally, I'd go for the Chrono-tek/Immortals option.

I think you'd need a 3++ to tanks that many Lascannons. if you have the Overlord on 2+/3++ (he wont be ID'd by a failed invun), the unit can be max shooty efficiency

Hmm, true that.
Too bad there's no way to fit both a Chrono-tek AND a Phase Shifter for the Overlord into the list.
The ability to reroll that failed inv save is worth its weight in resin.

drop the Lord, give the ResOrb to the OLord + you should be able to afford the Chrono

So then,

Overlord (Sep.Weave, Phase Shift, ResOrb) = 180
3 Generic Crypteks = 75
1 Chrono-tek = 40
1 Veil-tek (w/ Nightmare Shroud) = 70

5 warriors = 65
5 warriors = 65

TOTAL = 495

I don't know, man.
I mean, it sacrifices a lot of shooting (only 12 S5 AP3 shots, plus forced morale checks/AP1 template) for survivability (rerollable 2+/3++ and RP at 4+).
Would it be worth the trade off?

Hmm, you can't really shoot a lot if most of your Crypteks get Lascannoned to death.
So I would say it's worth it.

Alternatively, could drop the Overlord's Sep.Weave and the Veil-tek's Nightmare Shroud, almost freeing up enough points to re-add the Lord (would put the total at 505 if you did).

could do.

That might not be the best idea though. if you are going to drop the Shroud, get another Cryptek instead of a Lord. same 3 S5AP3 shots, but a little cheaper.(total stays at 515)

Can't add another cryptek, though. Already at five (3 normals, the Chrono-tek, and the Veil-tek)

Damn... I think you will need the 2+ to tank the Bolter shots from the Tac squads like

To the OP. How does your opponent deploy? all together or spread out? What have you run in your lists?

Oh well, guess we just gotta stick with the medium amount of shooting (4 Staves of Light) instead insane amount of shooting (6 Staves of light), if you want to remain resilient.

Interesting thread which I have been following carefully.

Tbh, I think the increased amount of shots from @Dooms list is better than having the Chronotek. I'd possibly swap a cryptek for a despair tek and move the shifter to the OLord

Sure being able to reroll the inv save or reanimation would be worthwhile, but really, having the extra shots is going to be more useful. If anything I'd swap a cryptek for an extra Despairtek for the ignores cover - that is likely to be way more useful than rerolling.

From a game perspective, In T1 if the other player is going first, you deploy out of LOS / range. Then you veil up. You then flame x2, ignores cover, plus add the AP3 shots (which they will still get cover saves/GTG against).

Assuming that gets most of the unit, you then need to weather one round of shooting (I think we can agree that all shots will be targeted to the unit.). So, having the shifter on the OLord means you can take 2 shots on the OLord, plus you get greater certainty over Look out Sir rolls.

You then veil/walk to the next unit and repeat.

So, I'd suggest

OLord, (Shifter, Orb)
Lord
3 Crypteks
2 despairteks (1 veil)

5x Warrior
5x Warrior

495 points.

I think youd be better just maxing out the AP3 shots myself

Agreed,
For those templates to be of any use, you're going to have to Veil pretty close. The chance to scatter and lose your entire Royal Court is too great.
Yeah, you'll still have to Veil close for the Staves of Light to be in range, but not AS close.

so, Veiltek, 4 Vanilla, Olord with 2+/3++/4+++, 10 Warriors in 2 5-man squads.

That's 470 points.

Sure there is a bigger risk, but in 6th there is a vastly reduced chance of mishap and dying. Most probable worst case is opponent placing (which if they have any sense will be 25" in front of the devastators).

I don't mathhammer, but practically I don't believe that 12 shots isn't enough to take out a devastator squad in cover.

I think @Doom had it right. If you are going to use this might as well go all out. Massive success or Epic failure!

 IHateNids wrote:
so, Veiltek, 4 Vanilla, Olord with 2+/3++/4+++, 10 Warriors in 2 5-man squads.

That's 470 points.

What to do with the remaining 30 points:
• add vanilla Lord (total = 505, though)
• upgrade 5 Warriors to 5 Immortals, give the Veil-tek a Nightmare Shroud
• throw in a Tomb Blade with Particle Beamer

have you tried warrior spam? if there is one thing lascannons cant bring down its a 20 man blob of warriors back up by a rez orb. play a 5 man squad in the back and Overlord with a res orb on the big blob and throw a solar pusle cryptek in there to give a fat cover save as you walk within 24 inches and pound his face in with flayers.

 Dumah12 wrote:
have you tried warrior spam? if there is one thing lascannons cant bring down its a 20 man blob of warriors back up by a rez orb. play a 5 man squad in the back and Overlord with a res orb on the big blob and throw a solar pusle cryptek in there to give a fat cover save as you walk within 24 inches and pound his face in with flayers.

I agree just spam warriors at 500pts he will struggle to shift numbers. They can kill what ever he brings.

Blob:
Overlord+Orb
Cryptek destruction+Pulse
Warriors x 20
Warrior x 5

500pts

Twin Flank:
Overlord+Orb
Lord+Orb
Warriors x 12
Warriors x 12

497pts

I was thinking of posting the 20 warrior blob option, but the royal court seemed way more pimping.

The other idea i had was make all the crypteks harbingers of destruction and do the lascannon trick back at him

Or deploy/deepstrike a monolith.

overlord 90
warriors 65
warriors 65
monolith 200

that leaves 80 for some upgrades or crypteks

barring a lucky 6 he is going to have a hard time getting a penatrating hit on a monolith.

8 Lascannons against a single Monolith?
... I don't like those odds.

8 shots => 5.33 hit => 1 glance and 1 pen on average.
The Monolith has 4HP and S8AP3 Large Blast to wipe those Devs out.

I would definitely try this tactic at least once, especially when you are almost guaranteed a win if you don't fight against lascannon-spam.

the problem with the Royal court is that you may lose the lord due to insta-kill lascannon as the Crypteks are only T4 and since they make up the majority of the unity there you go, a lucky lascannon shot may take down all the 3 wounds of the OL. If you are planning to take the RC take 2x Crypteks a OL and a lord, so since they are 2-2 the entire squad has T5 (useful against bolter fire).
I would say that another tactic is deceive
1 OL (Res orb)
2 crypt (1 veil of darkness 1 plain)
1 lord (plain)

5x warrior
5x warrior

4x Wraiths

505 points

one side the Wraiths the other the RC. at least one of them will reach CC and is enough to deal with the marines.

To the OP. Have you played the game yet? What list did you go for?