Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Be more careful than I was when dealing with paintedfigs.com

Around 2009 or 2010 I heard the D6 interview with Navin from paintedfigs.com (pf) and I figured that if the elder statesmen of the gaming podcasts were ok with him that I would do business with him.

So, I got a Space Hulk set painted. It was inexpensive (all things considered) and took awhile (maybe 4 months), which is no big deal, since I knew about the time shipping to Sri Lanka would take. 1st project was great. The models really look like what was advertised on the pf site and I was happy.

I got a quote from pf and a few USA places to paint an Ultramaine army. The quote from pf was the lowest and I felt ok since the Space Hulk set turned out so well. Off the models and some paypal $ go. After a few months, I get some pix and they generally look good.

Navin and I start talking about Descent. So, models and $ head off to Sri Lanka. Things stall on the Smurfs, but move quickly on the Descent models. After about 6 months, the Descent models come home. The quality is ok. Not what I expected, but not horrible; roughly the paint job I could apply to them if I had the time and inclination.

Navin and I talk about Orks. Off they go and $. About 6 months later, I get the Orks back and again they are ok.

I start to worry about my Smurfs, but Navin tells me that they are doing an extra high quality job on them. Ok, fine.

We talk about Eldar and IG. Off they go and $.

I see some progress images (you can see them too, just search his site using my username / lastname) and then nothing. Months go by and I get the same story that they are working on my models. I'm asking very nicely what the status is. I also have many emails from Navin saying I'm his best and easies to deal with customer. I get worried, since he has thousands of dollars of my models and thousands of dollars of my cash. More months go by and I start asking to have things sent back to me regardless of the state / condition and a refund.

I get a couple of Smurfs back, which were no where near the quality I bought, assuming the images on his site are representative (see image), and I email Navin and the D6 guys. I wanted the D6 guys to know that one of their advertisers "screwed" me.

I get this email from him after that:
"
Hi Nick,

I am sorry things have not worked out. You have certainly given us every chance to sort things, and we have tried our best.

We can send back everything of yours. The problem is the refund -- we're broke. We were swindled out of $25,000 by a consultant and this has taken away our ability to sort this sort of thing. It would be less of an issue if we could paint our way out of what we owe you, but if you're not happy with the work then that does no one any favors.

I'm happy to pay you back the money Nick, its just going to take ages is the problem.

Your thoughts?
"

Everybody that I talk to that has asked for a refund from pf gets the same story. So, his promise to refund your $ on his site's T&C is worthless.


After Raef's interview, I was pretty mad and I demanded that he send my models and $ back and I got this:
"... I'll keep these in compensation. " He said he would keep my models and $.

After many email, I started to get boxes from him (see images). The problem is he threw everything into a box sans packing material and it arrived broken. Also, many, many things were missing.

So, I gave up and typed this.

Oh, BTW, I have emails to back all of this up. :(

After about 4 years, I have about 60% of my models back (unpainted and broken) and none of my $ back. I've given up on dealing with him and I'm attempting to make sure others go into this with their eyes wide open.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let me pre-answer some questions:

1) Why did you keep sending $ / models?
Well, I got con'ed. Navin trickled enough new images that I thought the projects were going to get completed. Also, I received one very good project and 2 ok ones.

2) Why didn't you sue / ...
I want to get enough of us together and go after him. Hence, my post.

3) Hey that dread looks good...
It isn't to the quality his site shows.

4) How much are you out?
Around $15k in cash and about $6k in models.

Holy Crap... Makes REDSTAR ONE look like an angel in comparison...

Sorry for your experience dude :(

Thanks, I guess (woot! getting con'ed is awesome). I don't know what REDSTAR ONE is tho.

Wow, for $15K in cash I think I would take legal action... however, I can't imagine how difficult that would be between countries... maybe impossible.

It's even hard across state lines for the amount most commissions go for. If I ever have another commission done, it will be in-state (and thus, Very easy to recover through small claims court).

Yeah, I'd rather not type what I've done on that front.

I think the best bet (BTW, I'm not alone in this) is to have some Sri Lanka person go fix this.

I could have sworn this exact same thread came up about a year or two ago right here. Same experience as yours almost word for word. I might have to do a bit of digging later.

I see, please enumerate

This is why commissions from overseas are, in general, risky. There are just too many variable involved in the (really expensive) shipping and handling, plus if something goes incrediwrong, it's going to be very hard if not impossible to take legal action.

There are some exceptions - Sigur from here on Dakka and Golem Painting Studio are two examples of overseas painters I'd happily trust with my models - but in general, try to stick in-country.

~Tim?

I'm sorry to hear this, but also if someone did swindle them i'd like to see them caught and dealt with. Obviously it could have been a fabrication on their part but the story makes me want to believe them.

 akira5665 wrote:
Holy Crap... Makes REDSTAR ONE look like an angel in comparison...

Sorry for your experience dude :(

QFT. Really sorry to hear about this, good luck getting that money back. [<- this is meant sincerely]

 -Loki- wrote:
I could have sworn this exact same thread came up about a year or two ago right here. Same experience as yours almost word for word. I might have to do a bit of digging later.

I thought the exact same thing. I actually checked your time/date stamp to make sure this wasn't a really old post.

Do a search for this topic on Dakka (or even Google) to find the old thread. A lot of what you said was quite familiar.

Good luck on recovery!

Interview with Navin (Painted Figs) on the Hollywood Gamer Podcast: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/413684.page
Paintedfigs.Com - An Open Letter to the Gaming Community - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436240.page
Potential Advertising thread disguised as testimonial - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436361.page
Accusations of impropriety - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431189.page


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, based on that I would not touch that guy with a ten foot pole.

I feel bad for the OP, but that is a ton of money to throw at someone before getting real results. Yikes. I hope some legal recourse helps.

I feel really sad after reading your post. You lost your money and models, and another well known painting service is currently going through difficult times.

Your money is important! $15k in fees and $6k models worth is nothing to sneeze it. Yet I do believe Paintedfigs is a good a legit company. Their interview at the D6G a few years back has got me to believe the owner is trying to help the gaming community and better the lives of less fortunite. To hold you back on your models and funds means paintedfigs certainly has some rough times in their hands.

Worthypainting has gone under this year as well. Luckly for the customers BlueTablePainted stepped in and helped them out. I hope as a wargaming community we can do something to help each other out in difficult times.

$15k in fees and $6k models worth

I do believe Paintedfigs is a good a legit company

Pick one

I'm just saying when the company was running smoothly it was a good and legit company. Now that the company is in finicial trouble of course the customers got brunt.

If we don't want to help out a fellow company in trouble then fine, just let it burn down and the customer gets hosed.

Least if other tried to help there might be something we can savlage, such as BTP helping WorthyPainting's customer out.

I personally know someone effected by the WorthPainting problem and they have yet to get any kind of resolution. I get that things go wrong, but it always seems to be the same story when it happens.

Lack of communication, lack of follow through, and people out money and figs. Just sucks.

If you follow the pf saga, I think you'll come to the conclusion that something is off.

I'm very certain that I won't get satisfaction from Navin.

 pretre wrote:
Interview with Navin (Painted Figs) on the Hollywood Gamer Podcast: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/413684.page
Paintedfigs.Com - An Open Letter to the Gaming Community - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436240.page
Potential Advertising thread disguised as testimonial - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436361.page
Accusations of impropriety - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431189.page

Yeah, based on that I would not touch that guy with a ten foot pole.

I feel bad for the OP, but that is a ton of money to throw at someone before getting real results. Yikes. I hope some legal recourse helps.

Wow, nice research there pretre

And yeah... to be avoided, certainly (and thanks to the OP for putting out the warning- it is somewhat possible you'll get results from doing that, if you keep it up, just to stop the bad press they're getting).

As one of those guys who has neither the time nor skill to paint my stuff to the level I want... I have engaged several commission painting services in the past. Painted figs was actually the first that I used and for what it is worth I received what I paid for. They were very clear on the shipping turn around times so my expectations on that front were managed. The painting quality was low tabletop and I have since traded the army away, but for the price it was a fair deal. Have not engaged them again as I found that I was looking for a higher level of painting service, but I do find that all the negativity overwhelming and somewhat unfair.

I do all my own painting. Nips this problem right in the bud.

But this is nasty, on par with Redstarone. For those whom dont now Redstarone is one of the aliases used by the infamous scam artist Daniel Mandelbaum.

Marcus Scipio wrote:
As one of those guys who has neither the time nor skill to paint my stuff to the level I want... I have engaged several commission painting services in the past. Painted figs was actually the first that I used and for what it is worth I received what I paid for. They were very clear on the shipping turn around times so my expectations on that front were managed. The painting quality was low tabletop and I have since traded the army away, but for the price it was a fair deal. Have not engaged them again as I found that I was looking for a higher level of painting service, but I do find that all the negativity overwhelming and somewhat unfair.

Well, PF painted my Space Hulk set and it turned ok great and I knew what the shipping time would be.

As to the negativity, I am the wronged person in this situation. All Navin, had to do was to put my models in some boxes and protect them and ship them back. Not wait 3 years. Not send me aggressive emails stating that he is keeping my money, not painting my models, and keeping my models.

If you believe the drama around PF and Navin's consultant stealing money from him. The money I sent him probably helped him ride thru that and he spent my money on things other than painting my models and get behind. So, he delivered on other newer projects and not mine.

A few years ago, when I asked for my models and money back. He could have said, "sorry the money is gone, but here are your models" and sent them to me in a timely fashion. He would send me a box or 2 once a quarter. He claimed he couldn't afford to ship everything back in one fell swoop. I offered to pay for the return shipping, he declined.

So, why would he do that? I'm guessing he wanted to use my models as leverage over me.

As an outsider with no stake in this either way, if sounds to me like PF actually delivers on small to medium jobs and then claims bankruptcy/the sky is falling/other excuses after being paid for a large one?

Edit: Nice digging, Pretre. I found this post very enlightening...

I think that is close to what is going on.

PF paints stuff for podcasters (small jobs, like a unit) and gets press. They handle smaller jobs, which pads their gallery. Larger projects come in and they get overwhelmed and can't return the $ (as why, I don't know, but I've spoken with 2 others that have a similar story to mine) or finish the project.

Not to drag BTP into this, but take a look at their gallery and search for "evan" I have maybe 50 projects with them. If anybody really cares, ask them what I'm like as a client.

So, even if you have a small job, why would you go with PF, sure they are cheaper, but there is a risk you won't get what you paid for and Navin will threaten to keep your models.

So while I agree the OP is the wronged party here (and I certainly would not send my models to PF), I also question why keep sending them projects before they finish the first commision. Seems to me that you could have saved a lot of money and models by waiting for them to complete the original commision.

Sure...

I sent a couple of projects and waited for them to come home and they did. I felt ok with Navin. PF finished 2 or 3 projects for me, in series.

So, I sent in a bunch of stuff, because I trusted Navin.

Yes, I made a bad decision. And, Navin took advantage of my trust.

Navin had *YEARS* to make this right and he didn't.

evancich wrote:
I think that is close to what is going on.

PF paints stuff for podcasters (small jobs, like a unit) and gets press. They handle smaller jobs, which pads their gallery. Larger projects come in and they get overwhelmed and can't return the $ (as why, I don't know, but I've spoken with 2 others that have a similar story to mine) or finish the project.

Not to drag BTP into this, but take a look at their gallery and search for "evan" I have maybe 50 projects with them. If anybody really cares, ask them what I'm like as a client.

So, even if you have a small job, why would you go with PF, sure they are cheaper, but there is a risk you won't get what you paid for and Navin will threaten to keep your models.

Didn't mean to not empathize with you, just thought I would add that I had a positive experience. Frankly though the commission painting studios seem to go through this a lot. I've also done several projects with BTP and they went through a very similar period about a year or two ago. Never had them threaten to take my money and not return anything, but you had massive delays as they were behind in payments and using new monies to pay for old projects (or so I was led to understand). Coincidentally I found that the painting quality at BTP slipped dramatically (unless you were lucky enough to get one of the few talented artists there). As a result I have stopped using them.

Have since used Frontline Gaming several times and been very pleased with the openess of communication, painting quality, turnaround time, and error redress. Will continue to use them.

Edit: Link might not be legit, so I have removed it.

There is something odd about that page. It says updated July 31, 2013 but appears to have no updates on it for ages and it seems that the text "July 31, 2013" is actually generated by some Javascript on the page to always show today's date.

Odd that...

I will never understand people sending their models to rather obscure parts of the world to have them painted.

Basic wargames hobby 101: keep your models in the US(and Canada), AU, EU, and perhaps the odd job in South America if the person is reputable.

I've heard nothing but horror stories for people who send models outside those areas.

I also wouldn't send my expensive toys into a country where my own native tongue is a rare thing.

Sending models to what is essentially the third world is a bad idea, and just generally asking for problems.

I'm not saying that ALL cases are like that, but at this point people should realize that there is a risk just based on where the painter is located.

Koppo wrote:
There is something odd about that page. It says updated July 31, 2013 but appears to have no updates on it for ages and it seems that the text "July 31, 2013" is actually generated by some Javascript on the page to always show today's date.

Odd that...

Well then. That's crappy if true. Ugh..