Q
You're working on xenotransplantation, the moving of organs of one species into another. In this case, it's transplanting pig lungs into human patients. Why?

A
I got into biotechnology because our daughter, Jenesis, was diagnosed with a life-threatening illness, pulmonary arterial hypertension. Although we've been successful in developing medicine that retards the progression of that disease, it doesn't cure it and most [people] end up dying from it. However, in 100 percent of the cases, a lung transplant eliminates pulmonary hypertension.

The problem is that 90 percent of pulmonary hypertension patients do not get a fresh lung because 90 percent of the people who need lungs die or are not even listed for transplants. For this to be a realistic bridge to the future, I needed to come up with a way to make sure there are enough lungs for everybody.

Due to the advances in genetic engineering over the past 10 years it has now become a realistic goal to genetically modify a pig so that when its lungs are transplanted into a person, the person will not reject the lungs, and then we would have enough lungs for everybody with pulmonary hypertension as well enough lungs for people with other end-state lung diseases such as cystic fibrosis, pulmonary fibrosis, and even emphysema.

Q
You're talking about eliminating the anti-rejection drugs that transplant patients currently must take? Can you address specifically what the modifications are?

A
That's correct. It's necessary to deal with two parts of the body's systems in particular: the immunological system and the coagulatory system.

Pig organs have antigens, which are strings of molecules on every one of their cells that trigger a reaction in the human body that says, "This is not part of me, I am going to attack it and kill it and ultimately reject it." But it is possible for us to make genetic modifications to the pig to eliminate those parts of the pig genome that put those antigens on the outside of their cells. Therefore, there is nothing for the human body to then attack and reject.

Secondly, the coagulatory, or blood-clotting, parameters of humans and pigs are different. But it's possible to modify the pig genome so that those aspects of its blood that are incompatible with human blood clotting are eliminated. In that case it would be no different than giving a transfusion from a compatible human donor to the pig. In fact, already all of our pigs are blood type O, which is a universal donor type.

We've already successfully made four modifications to the pig genome down this pathway of about 12 or so that we believe will be needed.

Q
How did you make these modifications?

A
Basically, we are able to reprogram the DNA inside the nucleus of the pig cell. We have a team of cell biologists who isolate different kinds of genes that we know are going to be helpful for compatibility between the pig and the human and do nuclear transfer to create new versions of the pig genome.

We have animal husbandry experts who take those new pig embryos after they are divided a number of times and artificially implant them in the uterus of the sow, then have to wait about three months until the pigs have grown to be ready for delivery. We nurture those piglets until they reach a size (when) their organs are the same size as the human organs and, at that point, those pigs are sacrificed and the organs are tested for compatibility with human blood and human immunological blood factor.

Q
What is your time frame to market, and are there are any long-term plans to move beyond lungs to other organs?

A
We do have plans to move past the lungs and we are already sending the organs of the very same pigs to heart specialists for testing their hearts, [and to] kidney and liver specialists for testing the kidneys and livers. We have also sent the corneas of these pigs because in other countries around the world, like China, there is a huge shortage of corneas for cornea transplant.

With regard to the time frame, it's an R&D project. I said to our staff that I believe this is something that can be done before the end of the decade, that we could successfully transplant a pig lung into a patient and return that patient safely to health. That's the goal we're working toward.

Q
You have a doctorate in medical ethics. What ethical issues do you see facing xenotransplantation?

A
The first thing I would do is encourage openness in what we talk about and what we do, because, ultimately, we are using public resources and we are operating in a public space. Beyond that, the consideration of ethics occurs at every step in our process. We cannot do any procedure, even on an animal, in any medical center without approval of various ethic committees operating at the medical center.

Q
The xenotransplantation efforts are legal, but there are still regulatory issues with which you will have to contend, correct? How do you prepare for that?

A
Yeah, there will be. I can't even imagine all of them.

It's similar to dealing with the engineering problems. Try to separate them into categories, [deal with] the ones that are a little bit more easily addressable, [then] the ones that are more difficult to address, and [then] the ones that are truly earthshaking. I hope that by tackling the easiest ones, I create enough compelling reasons for people to want to make the bigger legal changes. There is no need to ask people to make a big legal change for no reason, for a theoretical reason or theoretical technology. People agree to change rules when they see that the world will be a better place with the rules changed.

Q
Beyond your work with transplantation, you've also helped to develop Bina48, a human-like robot based upon your partner, Bina. Why did you create it?

A
I pretty much hoped to show people that it was possible to build a very lifelike robot that would turn people on instead of turn people off. Before we built it, there was a prevailing view that people were scared of lifelike robots. I didn't believe it.

I just set about doing the experiment of building the Bina48 robot, commissioning it to look exactly like my partner, Bina, and introducing her to, by now, literally thousands of people throughout the U.S. and Europe. She's spoken at major conferences, at South by Southwest, been on the German equivalent of 60 Minutes, interviewed by countless reporters. Nobody is freaked out by her.

In fact, people are almost always highly engaged by her. Now there are more and more people talking about building lifelike robots, and that was my charitable mission. I like donating by actually doing, making a project, doing something instead of just giving money to somebody.

 Ouze wrote:
This makes me think of a specific Penny Arcade (a single expletive).

So far as the transplant possibilities, iirc pigs are very similar to humans in a lot of ways, yes? Beyond, you know, the Animal Farm ways.

 Ouze wrote:
This makes me think of a specific Penny Arcade (a single expletive).

So far as the transplant possibilities, iirc pigs are very similar to humans in a lot of ways, yes? Beyond, you know, the Animal Farm ways.

 whembly wrote:
Yes, pigs are very similar... (hmmm... long pork?)

Gitzbitah wrote:
I can't wait for them to begin looking into modifying hardier animal organs with regenerative properties. Self-healing lizard hearts for everyone!

 Monster Rain wrote:
Okay, I may need to get more sleep, because I thought the OP said Piers Morgan will be used for transplantation.

 Monster Rain wrote:
I really truly hope you're serious.

Tell me more.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Pig parts have been used for years. Skin grafts, heart valves, etc...

IIRC even full hearts have been used, albeit temporarily.