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I recently played an 1850 game with my Dark Eldar / Eldar army (my first game in sixth edition at that many points). I was doing quite well the entire game, basically winning every small skirmish my opponent and I had on each flank and advancing towards the next unit with my victorious unit. I lost the game in the fifth turn due to him turboboosting jetbikes to all the objectives, which has led me to realize my army simply isn't built for objective games. I imagine that objective-grabbing and contesting is an important part in sixth edition, so I need to evolve my army list to deal with this. I normally run a couple units of Rangers behind an Aegis Defense Line to contest objectives on my side of the board, and then I run large squads of foot-slogging Wyches to contest objectives outside of my deployment zone. I think I need some faster Troops choices, and I would like to make models that could count as either Dark Eldar Hellions or Eldar Jetbikes. I need help deciding the Pros and Cons of both. Thanks in advance.

Hellions have the inherent 'Baron Tax' to become troops. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as he's pretty good for what you pay.

Comparing the two units is tricky though, because they both fit different roles. The Hellions are Jump Infantry designed for assault, the Jetbikes are, well, Jetbikes designed to fill a fast fire support/harassment role.

Personally, I like the Jetbikes. Cheap for what you get, capable of blasting 4 feet across the table in the dying turn to steal an objective, and if you happen to get within 12", the flurry of pseudo rending fire doesn't exactly hurt.

The poisoned weaponry of the Hellions comes in useful against MCs and the like, but then so do the inevitable Shuriken Cannons on the Jetbikes.

Jetbikes are more survivable as well, higher T, better Sv and if you throw in a Jetbike Warlock with Conceal, that 3+ becomes a cover save, increasing to 2+ if you turbo.

Which army is your primary and which is allies has an effect as well. You say you like to run a couple of units of Rangers. If your CWE are your allies, you'd need to leave some of the snipers at home to bring the GJBs.

Tl;dr: Jetbikes> Hellions.

If you are looking for fast troops to snag objectives, the eldar jetbikes are going to be your go to answer.

However, Hellions are pretty solid choices as well, and are able to maneuver a lot better than your wyches will be able to.

Maybe having some troops in a couple venoms for late game objective grabbing would work for you.

Hellions are overcosted and bad assault troops. T3 and a 6+ save just isnt going to cut it for 16 points. Compare them to an assault marine(BA troops) and cry. They also need the Baron to become troops. The baron is awesome, but he is best with DE Reaver Jetbikes or Beasts.

Jetbikes are faster, more surviveable, more deadly at range, more deadly in close combat(at least on the charge)

They play very differently. If you want cheap scoring troops so you can load up on dakka, go with the jet bikes. Stay in reserves as long as possible. Hide the rest of the turns. Then turbo boost onto objectives on turn 5.

If you take hellions, you need to take a big squad with the baron. He can tank shots with his shadow field. Perhaps a jetbike seer can boost their defenses as well.

BunnyCommando wrote:
Hellions have the inherent 'Baron Tax' to become troops. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as he's pretty good for what you pay.

Comparing the two units is tricky though, because they both fit different roles. The Hellions are Jump Infantry designed for assault, the Jetbikes are, well, Jetbikes designed to fill a fast fire support/harassment role.

Personally, I like the Jetbikes. Cheap for what you get, capable of blasting 4 feet across the table in the dying turn to steal an objective, and if you happen to get within 12", the flurry of pseudo rending fire doesn't exactly hurt.

The poisoned weaponry of the Hellions comes in useful against MCs and the like, but then so do the inevitable Shuriken Cannons on the Jetbikes.

Jetbikes are more survivable as well, higher T, better Sv and if you throw in a Jetbike Warlock with Conceal, that 3+ becomes a cover save, increasing to 2+ if you turbo.

Which army is your primary and which is allies has an effect as well. You say you like to run a couple of units of Rangers. If your CWE are your allies, you'd need to leave some of the snipers at home to bring the GJBs.

Tl;dr: Jetbikes> Hellions.

The baron is no tax. The baron is compulsory for any army.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

BunnyCommando wrote:
Hellions have the inherent 'Baron Tax' to become troops. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as he's pretty good for what you pay.

The baron is no tax. The baron is compulsory for any army.

The baron really is one of the best HQs in the game, why you would be playing DE competitively and not taking him I am not sure.

Since I don't want to buy a lot of models (am planning on building them out of the new Lizardmen skink flyers, pricey at $60 for 3), it sounds like Jetbikes might be the way to go. While I hate the idea of hiding 3 bikes all game just to turboboost to objectives, it is effective in most of the missions.

Why do you hate it? That's their job. They are not units designed to beat face. Eldar have plenty of those....

Actually they can get reasonably beaty if you take a larger squad 6-9 and put a warlock in with it. They can get behind vehicles and hit rear armour with (squad of 9) 9 S6, 1 S9, and 12 S4. Against infantry you will do an average number of unsaved wound of; 5.5 (MEQ), 4.2 (TEQ), and 10.7 (GEQ). Not bad for the mobility and price tag. All of this with a T4, Sv3+ and 3+++ from conceal and jink.

 Exergy wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

BunnyCommando wrote:
Hellions have the inherent 'Baron Tax' to become troops. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as he's pretty good for what you pay.

The baron is no tax. The baron is compulsory for any army.

The baron really is one of the best HQs in the game, why you would be playing DE competitively and not taking him I am not sure.

Personally, I've never used him, so I have no idea how effective he is. On the Tournament front, I prefer to run as cheap an HQ as possible, to allow me to get more units from elsewhere (My DE HQ at ToS was a Succubus with an Agoniser, my GK HQ was Coteaz, and my Eldar one will most likely be a Spiritseer). I have heard good things about the Baron though, so I may have to get round to converting myself one...

BunnyCommando wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

BunnyCommando wrote:
Hellions have the inherent 'Baron Tax' to become troops. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as he's pretty good for what you pay.

The baron is no tax. The baron is compulsory for any army.

The baron really is one of the best HQs in the game, why you would be playing DE competitively and not taking him I am not sure.

Personally, I've never used him, so I have no idea how effective he is. On the Tournament front, I prefer to run as cheap an HQ as possible, to allow me to get more units from elsewhere (My DE HQ at ToS was a Succubus with an Agoniser, my GK HQ was Coteaz, and my Eldar one will most likely be a Spiritseer). I have heard good things about the Baron though, so I may have to get round to converting myself one...

The baron is good in part because he is so cheap and yet brings so much. He is the DE coteaz.

For a few points more than a succubus with agonizer you get a 2++, PGL, Stealth, Hit and run, +1 to go first, and tank killing str6. It's just 105 points!
The fact that he makes hellions troops is literally his worst ability, in no small part because of how bad hellions are.

 Exergy wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

BunnyCommando wrote:
Hellions have the inherent 'Baron Tax' to become troops. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as he's pretty good for what you pay.

The baron is no tax. The baron is compulsory for any army.

The baron really is one of the best HQs in the game, why you would be playing DE competitively and not taking him I am not sure.

Gotta say +1 on this.

The baron is an amazing buy for his points. Any time I ally with DE, hes the go-to for the ally choice. The baron's flexability and wargear is just outstanding.

I wish all Taxes gave me as much as the Baron does. Lets look at the list that Exergy gave.
- 2++
When combined with Eldar and Fortune, this becomes stupidly good.

PGL
Not only does this mean the squad he joins has offensive grenades, they also have defensive grenades. This means that his unit is assaulted, the assaulters do not get an extra attack for charging.

Stealth, Hit and run & Night Vision
Both of these abilities transfer to the squad now. This is huge as the baron can now make that seer council squad/beast pack now hit and run.
Night vision means he can join your wraithknight so it can shoot on the first turn during a night fight game.

+1 to go first
This also gives you the ability to choose to go first. Sometimes your going to want to go second. (night fight game, for example)

tank killing str6
What's not to love?

Fast Movement
A jumppack costs a DA 15 points. The baron has this included in his price. Combined with fleet, this means the baron can keep up with a beast pack easily

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

BunnyCommando wrote:
Hellions have the inherent 'Baron Tax' to become troops. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as he's pretty good for what you pay.

The baron is no tax. The baron is compulsory for any army.

The baron really is one of the best HQs in the game, why you would be playing DE competitively and not taking him I am not sure.

Gotta say +1 on this.

The baron is an amazing buy for his points. Any time I ally with DE, hes the go-to for the ally choice. The baron's flexability and wargear is just outstanding.

I wish all Taxes gave me as much as the Baron does. Lets look at the list that Exergy gave.
- 2++
When combined with Eldar and Fortune, this becomes stupidly good.

PGL
Not only does this mean the squad he joins has offensive grenades, they also have defensive grenades. This means that his unit is assaulted, the assaulters do not get an extra attack for charging.

Stealth, Hit and run & Night Vision
Both of these abilities transfer to the squad now. This is huge as the baron can now make that seer council squad/beast pack now hit and run.
Night vision means he can join your wraithknight so it can shoot on the first turn during a night fight game.

+1 to go first
This also gives you the ability to choose to go first. Sometimes your going to want to go second. (night fight game, for example)

tank killing str6
What's not to love?

Fast Movement
A jumppack costs a DA 15 points. The baron has this included in his price. Combined with fleet, this means the baron can keep up with a beast pack easily

WK is a solo MC and cant be joined by an IC. And the Baron gives you a +1 to select sides, not go first.

Sorry. 9-(

I thought the person that went first gets to choose sides.
ergo +1 to choose sides = +1 to go first

 Icculus wrote:
I thought the person that went first gets to choose sides.
ergo +1 to choose sides = +1 to go first

I believe that was the case in 5th Ed. I dont have my book in front of me at work, but in researching this the other day, there are definitely separate rolls. Which makes sense, as its a little unfair to lose first go AND possibly a better side of the table just in one roll.

Actually I just came home to look this up in the book. and I am wrong, they are indeed two separate rolls.

 Icculus wrote:
I thought the person that went first gets to choose sides.
ergo +1 to choose sides = +1 to go first

I'm not sure what the Baron's roll boosts but first you roll for sides (choosing deployment zone) and then you have a separate roll for who deploys first (and then that player goes first barring steal the iniative).

eltrain728 wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
I thought the person that went first gets to choose sides.
ergo +1 to choose sides = +1 to go first

I'm not sure what the Baron's roll boosts but first you roll for sides (choosing deployment zone) and then you have a separate roll for who deploys first (and then that player goes first barring steal the iniative).

It's +1 to choosing sides...

The DE FAQ says Baron helps you go first.

Also, Jetbikes are better.

Cover saves are much easier to strip now. I think I'd go hellions if you need a troop killing option as troops and Bikes if you need a tank assassin unit for troops.

So as always the list matters. The role you need them for would be my question.

My 1850 List:

Baron
Wracks
Wyches
Wyches
Beastpack
Talos
Talos
Talos

Avatar
Rangers
Rangers
Wraithknight

ADL w/ Quad Gun

Basically a foot-slogging list w/ beasts in front, Talos' behind them, Wyches behind them, and the Wraithknight and Avatar on each flank. The Rangers and Wracks stayed behind the ADL on my side of the board. My two army elements eventually get separated and I couldn't counter his jetbikes screaming across the gap to attack my deployment zone. I think based on this, Hellions may be the better choice to allow me to assault his jetbikes rather than just contesting the objective with my own.

pantsonhead wrote:
The DE FAQ says Baron helps you go first.

Also, Jetbikes are better.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3180052a_Dark_Eldar_v1.4_APRIL13.pdf

indeed

Thats definitely a big killy list. I think you have more then enough assault power as it is with the wyches, talos, avatar and knight.

The jetbikes would definitly fit in their a bit better given their speed, they wont be caught up in combat with the rest of your army and can shoot the gaps better (which appear more randomly in assault based lists)

 Oaka wrote:
My 1850 List:

Baron
Wracks
Wyches
Wyches
Beastpack
Talos
Talos
Talos

Avatar
Rangers
Rangers
Wraithknight

ADL w/ Quad Gun

Basically a foot-slogging list w/ beasts in front, Talos' behind them, Wyches behind them, and the Wraithknight and Avatar on each flank. The Rangers and Wracks stayed behind the ADL on my side of the board. My two army elements eventually get separated and I couldn't counter his jetbikes screaming across the gap to attack my deployment zone. I think based on this, Hellions may be the better choice to allow me to assault his jetbikes rather than just contesting the objective with my own.

why are you taking wracks? They arent troops in your army so they arent scoring.

30 points for a T4 BS4 unit with FnP to man the Quad Gun, although I am considering changing this to a 52-point unit of a Beastmaster (character for precision shots) and Clawed Fiend to take all the wounds the unit would get at T5. This would also give me some kind of counter-assault potential in my backline.

 Oaka wrote:
30 points for a T4 BS4 unit with FnP to man the Quad Gun.

o, just 3 of them. sure fine.