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Revised
HQ - Herald of Tzeentch - disc - Lvl 3 - Exualted gift (Grimoire). 150 pts
TR - 10x Daemonettes. 90 pts
TR - 10x Daemonettes. 90 pts
TR - 10x Daemonettes. 90 pts
TR - 10x Plaguebearers. 90 pts
FA - 15x Flesh hounds. 240 pts
FA - 15x Flesh hounds. 240 pts
FA - 10x Screamers. 250 pts
HS - Soul Grinder - torrent - DOS. 170 pts
HS - Soul Grinder - torrent - DOS. 170 pts
HS - Soul Grinder - torrent - DOS. 170 pts

Now I know the Grimoire is not reliable but I can always turbo during the turns that I get 1-2 (obviously i am casting it on the screamers), also rolling on divination so if I get the 4++ and grimoire, I get a 2++ unit , no reroll but good enough.

Now is this a much better TAC list?
------------------------------------------------
Old list
HQ - Herald of khorne - steed - greater gift - LLoA. 130 pts
TR - 10x Plaguebearers. 90 pts
TR - 10x Plaguebearers. 90 pts
TR - 10x Plaguebearers. 90 pts
TR - 10x Plaguebearers. 90 pts
FA - 15x Flesh hounds. 240 pts
FA - 15x Flesh hounds. 240 pts
FA - 15x Flesh hounds. 240 pts
HS - Soul Grinder - phlegm bombardment - DON. 180 pts
HS - Soul Grinder - phlegm bombardment - DON. 180 pts
HS - Soul Grinder - phlegm bombardment - DON. 180 pts

So how is this list compare to the flying circus? Could this compete or is this worthless

Pretty solid list, im going to guess your attaching the Herald to one of flesh hound units (hint hint wink wink) and the lesser locus is also a good idea as well. All in all not much to say except YOU BETTER DRINK THE TEARS OF YOUR ENEMIES WITH YOUR 3+ DENY THE WITCH. Promise me that! While im here i know soul grinders have an anti air abilty. To lazy to get my codex out so make sure to have tht there. Definitey think it can be competetive! Just watch out for those powered armoured pansies gw have made thoughout the years!

Gabriel_Seth4247 wrote:
Pretty solid list, im going to guess your attaching the Herald to one of flesh hound units (hint hint wink wink) and the lesser locus is also a good idea as well. All in all not much to say except YOU BETTER DRINK THE TEARS OF YOUR ENEMIES WITH YOUR 3+ DENY THE WITCH. Promise me that! While im here i know soul grinders have an anti air abilty. To lazy to get my codex out so make sure to have tht there. Definitey think it can be competetive! Just watch out for those powered armoured pansies gw have made thoughout the years!

Definatly not optimised hound list but yes i am attaching the herald to hound and i think its 2+ deny the witch.

3+ cover for the soul grinders and yes sky fire aswell. I dont know if i want all 3 to be ranged artillery but yeah its a general idea for my army. Just realised I have nothing to deal with av14 might need to think about that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HQ - Herald of Tzeentch - disc - Lvl 3 - Exualted gift (Grimoire). 150 pts
TR - 10x Daemonettes. 90 pts
TR - 10x Daemonettes. 90 pts
TR - 10x Daemonettes. 90 pts
TR - 10x Plaguebearers. 90 pts
FA - 15x Flesh hounds. 240 pts
FA - 15x Flesh hounds. 240 pts
FA - 10x Screamers. 250 pts
HS - Soul Grinder - torrent - DOS. 170 pts
HS - Soul Grinder - torrent - DOS. 170 pts
HS - Soul Grinder - torrent - DOS. 170 pts

Now I know the Grimoire is not reliable but I can always turbo during the turns that I get 1-2 (obviously i am casting it on the screamers), also rolling on divination so if I get the 4++ and grimoire, I get a 2++ unit , no reroll but good enough.

Now is this a much better TAC list?

Your soul grinders could deal with av14 due to be strength 10. Also i was assuming you wanted to play a fluffy list so i didnt want to critique your list to much. Even if it was it optimized it still couldve given your opponent a butthurt. Keep in mind that though they exist, your opponent might not take av14 tanks. Its kind of a toss up! Screamers were. Good choice becuase of their rending rule (right?) allowing your soul grinders to stick back! Hmmm now im just telling you what you have ! Whe list building always have units to counter you opponents (ie something for fliers, something for high av etc.) if you follow that general guideline (and some other rules >:/) you wont have to ask other people so much! Send me a message if you want all 6!

I like your revised list better, however, it is still far from perfect.

Consider getting a 2nd Lvl 3 Tzeentch Herald on Disc with the Portaglyph. You can drop 1 unit of daemonettes to do so (and perhaps a couple of dogs).

Also, don't have my codex currently, but I think the screamers max out at 9 screamers, not 10.

Finally, if you are considering running this list competitively, I would built it around Fateweaver. Flesh hounds, while good, have too many weaknesses to make for a solid foundation for a list. I'm really not a big fan of the dog rush list and will probably never use more than 1 unit of dogs in my list.

HQ - Daemon Prince - daemon of slaanesh, warp forged armour, daemonic flight & 2 x greater rewards. 255 pts
HQ - Daemon Prince - daemon of slaanesh, warp forged armour, daemonic flight & 2 x greater rewards. 255 pts
TR - 10x Plaguebearers. 90 pts
TR - 10x Plaguebearers. 90 pts
TR - 10x Plaguebearers. 90 pts
FA - 15x Flesh hounds. 240 pts
FA - 15x Flesh hounds. 240 pts
FA - 10x Screamers. 250 pts
HS - 3x Seeker Chariot. 120 pts
HS - 3x Seeker Chariot. 120 pts

So this is a half and half list, flying circus and dogs (and some other fast attacks ), The more i think about it the more I like deamons since they just have so much threats in all sections of the army, HQ, FA, HS, all packed with good units.

JY2 is correct, you need to fix your unit composition on the Screamers.

Chariots asplode too easy vs everything. A missleside unit can easily remove the whole unit from the board in one round of shooting.

DPs aren't as effective as GDs. If your not using Fateweaver, then at least bring a LoC to support your hounds while still being a big, mean, fast beatstick. Hell, I'd take a thirster over a pair of princes in a heartbeat. I know your taking them for anti-air, but Fateweaver and LoC do it just fine with the primaris in change.

And, as other said, only 9 screamers in a unit. I do like that GW gave us units that can be fielded in multiples found in the box, not like some units I could mention (cough 12 man warrior boxes cough). Its lame to have extra models that you can't field without taking a 2nd unit.

Killme304 wrote:
I'd take a thirster over a pair of princes in a heartbeat.

You, sir, are a crazy person. Solely based on stat lines, your claim falls apart. A Bloodthirster is an FMC with WS10, I9 and A6. Two Princes (with wings to be comparable) are WS9 I8 A10. The situations in which WS10 is better than WS9 are exceedingly rare--there is no defensive difference (since WS5+ needs 4's against both, and WS4- needs 5's), and how many WS10 models (for the 'thirster to need 4's) exist in the game?
The difference between I8 and I9 is also only rarely a factor.
And finally, 10 attacks is better than 6. I'm not sure why you would claim otherwise... unless you are a CRAZY person

BUT let's pretend that you're NOT crazy, and instead said that you would "take a thirster over A SINGLE prince in a heartbeat."
So we'd compare each FMC with the best possible upgrades, while trying to stay similarly priced.

Bloodthirster with two Greater, one Lesser = 300pts
He'll be Str7 and have Rampage (spend a Greater to get this) on the charge, with 8+D3 attacks. Depending on his Reward rolls, he could get some good or some GREAT abilities. Let's cherry-pick the reward rolls in this case, to better compare between the two; the 'thirster will take FNP4+ (greater) and Corrosive Breath (lesser). The Breath is so he has a greater chance of popping a transport in order to smush the unit inside. (Between the Lash and the Breath, this shouldn't be a problem.)

Daemon Prince with Wings, Tzeentch, Greater, Lesser, Armour, PML2 = 310
10 points more, but this is really a good way to run a Prince. (To make it 300pts, switch Tzeentch to Slaanesh, but this might be a bit of a downgrade [debatable!].)
First off, Tzeentch has a better save b/c of the re-roll--11% better on the Armour, 5.5% better on the invuln. And any percentages are better! The Prince has a better DtW, with at least a 5+, and sometimes a 4+. Again, depending on his reward roll, it'll be better or worse. But since the 'thirster got to pick, so does the DP! It's a hard choice between Corpulence and Resilience, but I think I'd fall on the FNP4+ side. And of course the Lesser would be a Staff of Change, giving the Prince 6 attacks at Str8 on the charge. The last thing is Biomancy, which is much harder to assess because of its random nature. We let them both choose rewards, but the 'thirster doesn't have powers to choose over, so it might be unfair to let the Prince do so. At the worst the Prince will roll #4, trade it for the Primaris, and then roll #4 again. Six AP4 shots isn't anything to scoff at...but it might be a bit of wasted potential. Still, that's only a 1/36 chance that it'll happen. The best (IMO) Bio powers are 1, 2, 3, 5, giving him a pretty high chance to get those. Warp Speed will make his attacks closer in number to the 'thirster. Iron Arm makes him Eternal (which is MUCH better than the 'thirster). Iron Arm + Endurance + that 4+FNP makes him basically unkillable. Finally, Princes are usually Heavies in the Chaos book, which means they score in Big Guns, while Bloodthirsters can only contest.

So, in the end, the Bloodthirster is REALLY GOOD (the best?) at killing a unit stone dead in combat. But the Prince isn't much worse. And the fewer attacks has, in my experience, not mattered against units which are too weak to effectively wound him, meaning both the Prince and the 'thirster win combat and Sweep.
The Bloodthirster doesn't have the shooting potential that the Prince does, especially since the 'thirster's second weapon is dependent on a 1/6, while the DP will definitely get 4 AP2 shots if he wants it.
The Bio rolls also make the DP much more survivable all around, with Endurance and Iron Arm.

All in all, I think I'd take the DP. With PML3 and a second Greater Reward, he's super-expensive (355!), but also lasts longer than the 'thirster.
I'd take the DP.

And I'd DEFINITELY take two DPs over a single Bloodthirster

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Killme304 wrote:
I'd take a thirster over a pair of princes in a heartbeat.

You, sir, are a crazy person. Solely based on stat lines, your claim falls apart. A Bloodthirster is an FMC with WS10, I9 and A6. Two Princes (with wings to be comparable) are WS9 I8 A10. The situations in which WS10 is better than WS9 are exceedingly rare--there is no defensive difference (since WS5+ needs 4's against both, and WS4- needs 5's), and how many WS10 models (for the 'thirster to need 4's) exist in the game?
The difference between I8 and I9 is also only rarely a factor.
And finally, 10 attacks is better than 6. I'm not sure why you would claim otherwise... unless you are a CRAZY person

BUT let's pretend that you're NOT crazy, and instead said that you would "take a thirster over A SINGLE prince in a heartbeat."
So we'd compare each FMC with the best possible upgrades, while trying to stay similarly priced.

Bloodthirster with two Greater, one Lesser = 300pts
He'll be Str7 and have Rampage (spend a Greater to get this) on the charge, with 8+D3 attacks. Depending on his Reward rolls, he could get some good or some GREAT abilities. Let's cherry-pick the reward rolls in this case, to better compare between the two; the 'thirster will take FNP4+ (greater) and Corrosive Breath (lesser). The Breath is so he has a greater chance of popping a transport in order to smush the unit inside. (Between the Lash and the Breath, this shouldn't be a problem.)

Daemon Prince with Wings, Tzeentch, Greater, Lesser, Armour, PML2 = 310
10 points more, but this is really a good way to run a Prince. (To make it 300pts, switch Tzeentch to Slaanesh, but this might be a bit of a downgrade [debatable!].)
First off, Tzeentch has a better save b/c of the re-roll--11% better on the Armour, 5.5% better on the invuln. And any percentages are better! The Prince has a better DtW, with at least a 5+, and sometimes a 4+. Again, depending on his reward roll, it'll be better or worse. But since the 'thirster got to pick, so does the DP! It's a hard choice between Corpulence and Resilience, but I think I'd fall on the FNP4+ side. And of course the Lesser would be a Staff of Change, giving the Prince 6 attacks at Str8 on the charge. The last thing is Biomancy, which is much harder to assess because of its random nature. We let them both choose rewards, but the 'thirster doesn't have powers to choose over, so it might be unfair to let the Prince do so. At the worst the Prince will roll #4, trade it for the Primaris, and then roll #4 again. Six AP4 shots isn't anything to scoff at...but it might be a bit of wasted potential. Still, that's only a 1/36 chance that it'll happen. The best (IMO) Bio powers are 1, 2, 3, 5, giving him a pretty high chance to get those. Warp Speed will make his attacks closer in number to the 'thirster. Iron Arm makes him Eternal (which is MUCH better than the 'thirster). Iron Arm + Endurance + that 4+FNP makes him basically unkillable. Finally, Princes are usually Heavies in the Chaos book, which means they score in Big Guns, while Bloodthirsters can only contest.

So, in the end, the Bloodthirster is REALLY GOOD (the best?) at killing a unit stone dead in combat. But the Prince isn't much worse. And the fewer attacks has, in my experience, not mattered against units which are too weak to effectively wound him, meaning both the Prince and the 'thirster win combat and Sweep.
The Bloodthirster doesn't have the shooting potential that the Prince does, especially since the 'thirster's second weapon is dependent on a 1/6, while the DP will definitely get 4 AP2 shots if he wants it.
The Bio rolls also make the DP much more survivable all around, with Endurance and Iron Arm.

All in all, I think I'd take the DP. With PML3 and a second Greater Reward, he's super-expensive (355!), but also lasts longer than the 'thirster.
I'd take the DP.

And I'd DEFINITELY take two DPs over a single Bloodthirster

If you take one bloodthirster not only do you get a steamrolling badass, but it frees up space for upgrades/new units :3 maybe some more hounds to stick to your original list while still have something scary on the board

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Killme304 wrote:
I'd take a thirster over a pair of princes in a heartbeat.

You, sir, are a crazy person. Solely based on stat lines, your claim falls apart. A Bloodthirster is an FMC with WS10, I9 and A6. Two Princes (with wings to be comparable) are WS9 I8 A10. The situations in which WS10 is better than WS9 are exceedingly rare--there is no defensive difference (since WS5+ needs 4's against both, and WS4- needs 5's), and how many WS10 models (for the 'thirster to need 4's) exist in the game?
The difference between I8 and I9 is also only rarely a factor.
And finally, 10 attacks is better than 6. I'm not sure why you would claim otherwise... unless you are a CRAZY person

BUT let's pretend that you're NOT crazy, and instead said that you would "take a thirster over A SINGLE prince in a heartbeat."
So we'd compare each FMC with the best possible upgrades, while trying to stay similarly priced.

Bloodthirster with two Greater, one Lesser = 300pts
He'll be Str7 and have Rampage (spend a Greater to get this) on the charge, with 8+D3 attacks. Depending on his Reward rolls, he could get some good or some GREAT abilities. Let's cherry-pick the reward rolls in this case, to better compare between the two; the 'thirster will take FNP4+ (greater) and Corrosive Breath (lesser). The Breath is so he has a greater chance of popping a transport in order to smush the unit inside. (Between the Lash and the Breath, this shouldn't be a problem.)

Daemon Prince with Wings, Tzeentch, Greater, Lesser, Armour, PML2 = 310
10 points more, but this is really a good way to run a Prince. (To make it 300pts, switch Tzeentch to Slaanesh, but this might be a bit of a downgrade [debatable!].)
First off, Tzeentch has a better save b/c of the re-roll--11% better on the Armour, 5.5% better on the invuln. And any percentages are better! The Prince has a better DtW, with at least a 5+, and sometimes a 4+. Again, depending on his reward roll, it'll be better or worse. But since the 'thirster got to pick, so does the DP! It's a hard choice between Corpulence and Resilience, but I think I'd fall on the FNP4+ side. And of course the Lesser would be a Staff of Change, giving the Prince 6 attacks at Str8 on the charge. The last thing is Biomancy, which is much harder to assess because of its random nature. We let them both choose rewards, but the 'thirster doesn't have powers to choose over, so it might be unfair to let the Prince do so. At the worst the Prince will roll #4, trade it for the Primaris, and then roll #4 again. Six AP4 shots isn't anything to scoff at...but it might be a bit of wasted potential. Still, that's only a 1/36 chance that it'll happen. The best (IMO) Bio powers are 1, 2, 3, 5, giving him a pretty high chance to get those. Warp Speed will make his attacks closer in number to the 'thirster. Iron Arm makes him Eternal (which is MUCH better than the 'thirster). Iron Arm + Endurance + that 4+FNP makes him basically unkillable. Finally, Princes are usually Heavies in the Chaos book, which means they score in Big Guns, while Bloodthirsters can only contest.

So, in the end, the Bloodthirster is REALLY GOOD (the best?) at killing a unit stone dead in combat. But the Prince isn't much worse. And the fewer attacks has, in my experience, not mattered against units which are too weak to effectively wound him, meaning both the Prince and the 'thirster win combat and Sweep.
The Bloodthirster doesn't have the shooting potential that the Prince does, especially since the 'thirster's second weapon is dependent on a 1/6, while the DP will definitely get 4 AP2 shots if he wants it.
The Bio rolls also make the DP much more survivable all around, with Endurance and Iron Arm.

All in all, I think I'd take the DP. With PML3 and a second Greater Reward, he's super-expensive (355!), but also lasts longer than the 'thirster.
I'd take the DP.

And I'd DEFINITELY take two DPs over a single Bloodthirster

I don't have problems taking DPs in general. In fact, I take 3 of them regularly. But I do so as heavies. I would never take them as HQs (excepting a single slaanesh one if I lack other ways to deal with fliers). A LoC brings way more to the army than the DP does. I also said I would even take a thirster over them, which is true because I only see them as viable heavies. T5 vs T6 is a big weakness when your not going first vs armies like tao, guard, or poded SM lists, and I'd rather not lose my warlord before I get a turn.

For 305 points, you get a LoC ML3 getting divination, 2 greater gifts (hope for 3+ armor and/or FNP, but they are all fairly good anyway), and a lesser to pick up the pimp stick. You now have a super killy warlord that flies, murders most things in combat, and its still an awesome support piece. He is also T6, which is much harder to deal with than T5.