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I noticed that Chaos Dreadnoughts were no longer in the CSM Codex, and they're not on the GW product list for CSM either.

Is the Chaos Dread actually gone or is has it been moved/renamed/remodelled?

Chaos Dread=Hellbrute

The model just got updated.

They got replaced by Hellbrutes. No real model for it yet except for the Dark Vengance Hellbrute. Kinda the same rules, different model. If you still want a Chaos Dread you'll have to go to ForgeWorld.

So...why doesn't GW sell the Hellbrute model separately with an actual option or two?

The whole Helbrute system is just daft. Fortunately I scored an old pewter dready in a deal with a guy in town.

GW is just saving you the trouble. The rules for them are awful. Until dreadnaughts get converted to monstrous creatures there's no real point in running them.

As the worst option in the codex, and the abilty to pick them up at 10 bucks each, I have zero problem with the way things are now.

Otto Weston wrote:
I noticed that Chaos Dreadnoughts were no longer in the CSM Codex, and they're not on the GW product list for CSM either.

Is the Chaos Dread actually gone or is has it been moved/renamed/remodelled?

It is now called the helbrute. Same unit. Different name.

The only current helbrute model is in the Dark Vengance boxed set. They can be had on ebay, but the pose is a tough conversion to make it really different, but weapon replacements and swaps are pretty simple with plastic. Of course you can also still purchase the complete line of Forge World chaos dreads in the various chapters with all the different weapon options as well. Oddly the forge world dreads are pretty comparable in price to the previous chaos dreads. Or you can convert an existing plastic loyalist dreadnought for what you need.

Skriker

"hellbrute" is one of the ugliest stupidest models ive ever seen with a dumb name as the cherry on top.

get some forgeworld dreads, they are 100 times nicer.

 Shadowbrand wrote:
The whole Helbrute system is just daft. Fortunately I scored an old pewter dready in a deal with a guy in town.

Eww the old Chaos Dreads were really fugly looking, one of the ugliest 40k models I've seen...

The best way to model them anyways is to take a SM dread and load it up with spiky bitz. The current model for them is just...

...

dread... ful...

The Forgeworld mkiv legion dreads are all things of beauty however.

Much of the new 'dex is not to my tastes. Better off running many other things as proxies for the new models. Except the warpsmith, they look great.

 Ailaros wrote:
The best way to model them anyways is to take a SM dread and load it up with spiky bitz. The current model for them is just...

...

dread... ful...

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

As said before, and I believe it is actually in the main rulebook (It certainly was in the 5th edition one), you can use the Hellbrute rules to represent the old Chaos Dreadnought, as it has no current rules in the current codex.

I'm going to convert up an Ironclad Dreadnought to be a 'Helbrute' (which I refuse to refer to as such, and will call a Chaos Dreadnought) using Maulerfiend bitz and stuff. The Helbrute model has cool elements, but the tiny little head is kind of meh. It is not the worst part of it, however.



Those stupid feet! Look at them! Ugh!

Speaking of Maulerfiends, the 6E Chaos Daemon Engines all have absurd names. Helbrute, luckily, is by far the worst one, but Heldrake? At least I actually like the Heldrake, even if the name is silly. "Forgefiend" one can get used to, it has nice alliteration going on.

Oh, well. At least we didn't get anything called a Warp Chaos Warplord of Slaanesh on a Daemon Warp Chaos Psyker Chaos Warp bike with a Chaos Warpbolter of Khorne firing Chaos Warp Warpbolts of WarpChaos of Tzeentch with Chaos Warp Immaterium Chaos HellBanner of Nurgle. Hooray for buzzwords!

EDIT: It is quite a shame, the Helbrute. The model is cheaply-gotten, of course, but... not being a multipart kit makes it difficult to use the tasty bitz and put them on a Dreadnought chassis or something. Not impossible, but still. Another shame with Dark Vengeance is how nice the Chaos Lord and Chosen look, with that really awesome gilded Chaotic look... and yet they never made any CSM models with that aesthetic save for the Aspiring Champion Finecast thing.

Just buy FW's Dreads. They are a thing of beauty and I hope to paint the Thousan Son's Dread one day.

I don't get it. Wouldn't making a 'chaos dreadnaught' kit with options sell better and earn GW more money that say...selling one optionless one and letting everyone on e-bay make the money? Does GW really hate making money that much?

Also, why don't they sell ALL the cultists from DV? Sometimes they just don't make sense.

But yes, the DV chaos marines are some of the best looking figures they've come out with, but they haven't done anything else that cool except the Warpsmith.

 Ozomoto wrote:
As the worst option in the codex,

Mutilators say 'Hi'

I actually don't mind the model, far nicer looking that loyal dreads. And I've made them work a couple of times too.

 MWHistorian wrote:
But yes, the DV chaos marines are some of the best looking figures they've come out with, but they haven't done anything else that cool except the Warpsmith.

It's true! A multipart plastic Chosen kit would be simply divine.



The Aspiring Champion is pretty cool (although the Inquisitor face on the back is stupid), even if his design is very busy. The big issue with him is, though, that he's an Aspiring Champion! The CSM version of a sergeant! This model is much more fitting as a Chaos Lord. As either a Chaos Lord or as an Aspiring Champion, though, he has issues; the model can only ever be equipped with an axe and a tiny knife. Those arms are pretty fancy, so converting him to have other weapons (none of which could ever match his fanciness, either) has its difficulties.

GW are silly, that's what is wrong. They haven't even gone the Forgeworld route of making a Chaos-from-Loyalist conversion set for Dreadnoughts, which would be pretty cool (and make money!).

Chaos Dreadnoughts do have rules and models this edition. They're called Hellbrutes. It's not a "good enough" or "close enough" comparison; they are literally the same unit. It's like when Eldar Dreadnoughts became Wraithlords or Ork Dreadnoughts became Deff Dreads. It's a name change and nothing else.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
But yes, the DV chaos marines are some of the best looking figures they've come out with, but they haven't done anything else that cool except the Warpsmith.

It's true! A multipart plastic Chosen kit would be simply divine.



The Aspiring Champion is pretty cool (although the Inquisitor face on the back is stupid), even if his design is very busy. The big issue with him is, though, that he's an Aspiring Champion! The CSM version of a sergeant! This model is much more fitting as a Chaos Lord. As either a Chaos Lord or as an Aspiring Champion, though, he has issues; the model can only ever be equipped with an axe and a tiny knife. Those arms are pretty fancy, so converting him to have other weapons (none of which could ever match his fanciness, either) has its difficulties.

GW are silly, that's what is wrong. They haven't even gone the Forgeworld route of making a Chaos-from-Loyalist conversion set for Dreadnoughts, which would be pretty cool (and make money!).

Actually he has a combiweapon on his backpack iirc.

I bought a venerable dreadnought and chaos'd it up a little bit. Please excuse the horrid paint job

 AL-PiXeL01 wrote:


Actually he has a combiweapon on his backpack iirc.

A combi-melta. Obviously all its problems are solved.

I don't like Venerable Dreadnoughts. The tiny head poking out just makes it look like a big fat Marine.

But why Doesn't GW sell this stuff separately? It makes NO sense.

I think something else worth considering is the Fiend. Both types of Fiend have (perhaps not entirely, but at least to me, functionally) replaced classic Dreadnought roles - that being the ranged/rifleman (Forgefiend) and the close-combat (Maulerfiend).

Just a thought. I have never fielded a Chaos Dreadnought in my life (or any other, for that matter), so I'm not entirely certain about their applications. It does appear that it has been functionally replaced by the Daemon Engines, though, based on my knowledge of how people run their Dreads. At least the new Chaos Dreadnought is cheaper than the Fiends?

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I think something else worth considering is the Fiend. Both types of Fiend have (perhaps not entirely, but at least to me, functionally) replaced classic Dreadnought roles - that being the ranged/rifleman (Forgefiend) and the close-combat (Maulerfiend).

Just a thought. I have never fielded a Chaos Dreadnought in my life (or any other, for that matter), so I'm not entirely certain about their applications. It does appear that it has been functionally replaced by the Daemon Engines, though, based on my knowledge of how people run their Dreads. At least the new Chaos Dreadnought is cheaper than the Fiends?

Yeah you could potentially take 2 Helbrutes for around the price of a single daemon engine.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I think something else worth considering is the Fiend. Both types of Fiend have (perhaps not entirely, but at least to me, functionally) replaced classic Dreadnought roles - that being the ranged/rifleman (Forgefiend) and the close-combat (Maulerfiend).

Just a thought. I have never fielded a Chaos Dreadnought in my life (or any other, for that matter), so I'm not entirely certain about their applications. It does appear that it has been functionally replaced by the Daemon Engines, though, based on my knowledge of how people run their Dreads. At least the new Chaos Dreadnought is cheaper than the Fiends?

It is funny, but I have 9 dreads across my 4 chaos marine armies and until the latest codex I haven't used them much. Just got tired of the dreads finally getting into range to be useful and then have them go nuts from fire frenzy and not fire at what I want them to fire at. Also when they had longer range weapons it was irritating when they would fire frenzy and just light up my own units.

Now that doesn't happen so I am using them more often these days. I've got 4 forge world dreads (1 world eaters, 2 nurgle, and 1 slaaneshi noise dread), 1 old bloodslaughter robot, an original early chaos dread with the tiny plasma cannon replaced, 2 of the new helbrutes (one stock and 1 with converted weapon) and a chaos converted forge world contemptor bought just before they released the chaos version. One of these days I'll do an apocalypse battle with all 9 on the table at once.

Skriker

kb305 wrote:
"hellbrute" is one of the ugliest stupidest models ive ever seen with a dumb name as the cherry on top.

get some forgeworld dreads, they are 100 times nicer.

This is one of the ugliest stupidest posts i've ever seen. Also Forgeworld is completely overpriced for something that is near useless on the tabletop.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I don't get it. Wouldn't making a 'chaos dreadnaught' kit with options sell better and earn GW more money that say...selling one optionless one and letting everyone on e-bay make the money? Does GW really hate making money that much?

Also, why don't they sell ALL the cultists from DV? Sometimes they just don't make sense.

But yes, the DV chaos marines are some of the best looking figures they've come out with, but they haven't done anything else that cool except the Warpsmith.

Chaos didn't have a plastic kit for dreadnoughts anyway. You just lost access to the fugly metal model.

The best you can hope for is an upgrade sprue for the plastic dreadnought kit, or eventually a plastic kit of some kind.


GW probably figures that making a special plastic chaos kit wouldn't make much money, so its easier to just have people buy either the DV hellbrute or get a vanilla dreadnought and add spiky bits.