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I thought it best to post it here because I require a little help choosing my new fantasy army and Im more interested in peoples explanation or builds for army tactics then just say the look of the army. I have played a few games of fantasy in the last edition rules but stopped collecting in favor of 40k for a few years but its getting old and ive always loved fantasy more, bigger armies and in blocks on troops rather than a few skirmish models.

I need help to decide on which army so far I have a basic list:

Empire:
Never been into them but as ive found in 40k its usually the army that you least suspect that ends up been your favorite. I would never have considered that deamons would end up been my 40k army of choice but after just winging it and buying a small army I fell in love with them even though they didn't seem like my type of army at all. So it might be possible for empire too. Empire seem to be alright in general but their models make it hard to tell how the army plays or works together and the best types of strategy and builds for them. Any empire players want to help illuminate the mystery for me and get me on the path of fighting for mankind?

Tomb kings:
The first fantasy army I had as a kid, right after seeing the mummy one of my all time favorite movies and still is, the new release seems to have just added to the tomb kings army but for some reason when I look at them they seem to have lost something about their style in the re-release and im honest in saying I can't put my finger on why at all. Perhaps a tomb king player is willing to share their secrets of raising an army of the dead from the sands and prove their new tactics more than make up for the lost feels

VC:
The undead, vampire movies, hammer and Christopher lee's Dracula as inspiration for this army whats not to like? well hordes probably since discovering washing hordes aren't as impossible as they used to be for me. The problem is I actually tried starting VC but I couldn't get an army list right no matter what I tried, the VC confused me greatly and I ended up selling my starting force for rent money but with that old school horror movie edge they always find their way onto my starter list, perhaps second times a charm?

WoC:
CHAOSSS! *ahem..*
They have the best selection of leaders out of all fantasy but the rest of their army is lacking is visual difference or variety. As an army it seems simple, get models hit the enemy like a brick. They do interest me in that viking epic warrior way and if any chaos players can let me know that their army is not as simple as it looks and is open to a variety of tactics and builds, well that would make them epic.

Orks and goblins:
One idea make this army get on the list, all goblin spider army. Is it possible? is it competitive? I dislike the standard goblins but would love an all spider army, leader on a spider, giant spiders everywhere! scary and you already win using fear tactics again arachnophobes

Lizardmen:
They're new I love dinosaurs since I was a child watching Jurassic park and walking with dinosaurs but again all new rules so im in the dark about how they work or army builds.

Beastmen:
An army thats always been at the back of my mind, they look cool for some reason and maybe its because its not well advertised by GW or used much but that gives them an underdog army feel, they don't get shoved in my face by advertising they just sit in the back and do that they do best, fight on the battlefield. Not a flashy army but look durable, it seems like they get the job done and move on no unnecessary fluff or flashy effects or models but just how do they perform on the battlefield...?


Now as a player I'm usually a simple opponent, overly complex armies end up underused by myself. I like my army to be simple yet durable, I usually favor the throw everything you have at the enemy in the first few turns and hope for the best..(do I even use tactics? I sound more like a blunt object) I want to know a lone squad can do something other than be cannon fodder. I like armies to have a theme just to make them stand out, especially if the theme impacts the tactics and build of an army not just the look. The reason I love deamons in 40k is that they are simple, tough yet interesting to look at have a good visual theme and have random rules that can either win or loose you that match. I like an army that makes every game different, who knows what could happen next. Standard armies that play the same every game and feel rigid usually end up loosing their thrill quickly. I like an army to work tactically and have a strong connection with their theme, play on their fluff instead of having it tact on.I love the idea of rules reflecting fluff.

So can anyone chip in? help me with these choices, im looking for general collecting advice, army build advice or examples and abit of general swaying in one direction or the other.

As an Orcs and Goblins player, I love the sheer variety of the army. If you want an army that can field a ton of models and can be tactically versatile go with them. The only thing with this army is the damned Animosity table. That can make you or break you. The army can be very entertaining.

Warriors of Chaos are a reasonably simple concept army - get into cc and you are likely to win - but that doesn't mean that they lack depth.
WoC have a huge range of viable units, from core chariots and elite infantry to great monsters. They have excellent heavy cavalry, arguably the best MC in the game and a monster that acts like a warmachine.
Character wise, WoC have more good options than most, as you can run a monster, a lone warrior (on disc) or a bunkered hero all equality viably.
If you are allowed SC, there are 3 who are excellent and Throgg particularly allows you to totally change your army, using trolls as core.

Modelling wise, the small model count gives more scope for individually tailoring each model, should you wish to.
There is a huge amount of fluff to draw on, and the mutation element especially means that you can justify personalising every model that you want.
WoC lack shooting (only hellcannon and marauder horse) although they have access to LOTS of breath weapons.
Finally, CHAOSSSSSSS!

As one whom played Beastmen for several years I can say that they are a army that you seldom meet, and the options you have in how you wish to moddel your army is almost endless, but they are not the most durebal army. but when you learn the arm, and get to master their strengths and weaknesses they can and will slaugther just about anything. Their SC can be either really, really awesome. or in some caes very very uselless. But all in all its a nice army to play

Based on the description you gave of yourself as a player WoC seem right up your alley. Oftentimes just by showing up you put the opponent in a position of needing to outmaneuver or outmagic you to win, as most armies cannot simply run up toe-to-toe with WoC and come out on top.

There can be a variety of tactics and build with WoC but they all boil down to some form of melee dominance. They are great for theme armies in the same way daemons are, you can build an army around a specific god, and unlike Fantasy daemons any of them are viable (though some are stronger and some weaker, obviously).

As opposed to CSM its just fun to roll on the Eye of the Gods table (their version of Chaos Boon). Unlike the CSM version there is some control, as its a flat 2d6 on a 2-12 chart, and with a warshrine in range you get 3d6 dropping one of choice. Warshrines can also cast a spell that gives you rolls, and if you bring more than one you can cast it multiple times each turn.

If you like beatstick units being led by beatstick characters that get stronger as the game goes on, WoC is for you. They also have decent monster options and powerful chariots. And it would be unfair to them if I didn't mention skullcrushers (dudes on juggernauts) as the best monstrous cav in the game.

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Based on the description you gave of yourself as a player WoC seem right up your alley. Oftentimes just by showing up you put the opponent in a position of needing to outmaneuver or outmagic you to win, as most armies cannot simply run up toe-to-toe with WoC and come out on top.

Seconded. WoC are a simple army to use but are no less effective for it. I'd go as far to say they're one of the easier armies to play in WHFB. On a similar note, if you like fighty characters, then look no further than VC, who have some of the best characters in the game. They require a lot more finesse and tactics though: lose your characters and your army starts to fall apart, which is an alien concept to a 40k player.

Of the other armies, I can comment on OnG. An all Spider army is possible, as Spider Riders are Core and you can take Lords + Heroes on Spiders. I wouldn't say it's that competitive, but to be perfectly honest, OnG aren't one of the most competitive armies in the game. Most of their strength lies in cheap War Machines and large blocks of infantry, but there's no reason to say you can't convert some Spider-related units up. A unit of Forest Goblins wouldn't be hard to do and if you take the flinger from the Arachnarok kit and add three goblins, you have an instant Rock Lobber. You also said that you liked randomness, and between Animosity, Pump Wagons, Fanatics and Mangler Squigs, you have plenty of that!

Ok so a few votes towards warriors of chaos it seems. I'll admit I go all barbarian inside when I see the chaos lord on the horse model, looks about as epic as a model can be.
They seem to be the kind of army to yell "THIS IS CHAOS!" before kicking an empire general into a pit.

The only real problem I see when I look at chaos is the lack of variety, they do seem to have one tactic. Get warriors and cavalry, some high level leader and walk into combat. Whilst this is pretty much how I operate anyway it sounds like doing the same thing each match could get a little boring. I like to do some really stupid stuff on the field lol Like driving tanks through buildings just to bring it down with the enemy troops in lol

But they are tough and simple and I do like it in a way. Their lack of any real large warmachines beyond the hellcannon is alittle unfortunate though, I like to have warmachines and big scary things marching around as distractions.

Orcs seem to be ok also, I like that you can have more than 1 Arachnarok spider. HARGGG

This is indeed a hard choice, I only have enough funding to get into one army so...gotta get it right first time lol and I have a real problem with keeping interest, I jump from things quickly, one week i love the idea of Vietnam inspired imperial guard army with lots of valks then I loose interest and jump on an army of mech orks, basically im influenced by any film, game or book i read lol but I know I cant keep doing that because its only fleeting interest and my army needs to stick with me for a while. The Deamons are the bizarre odd ones out for they have kept my interest for some reason and I don't know why, they dont have any real guns and it bugs the hell out of me but the army keeps been interesting. Maybe its because of all their unique rules, random warp storm chart and making me build an army that works with their lack of guns, keeping it interesting.

But I still want a different warhammer army

Well, OnG can get lots of Infantry and Cavalry with a tooled-up Lord and walk into combat, just like WoC can. They won't do it as well, but you can play them that way. But then you can also play them in many different ways, if you get bored of the same sort of thing. OnG are certainly more versatile and for that reason I'd take them.

Besides, Orks iz da bestest

I'm starting to think about starting a second army and GnO is definitely a contender.

Do you consider flying into battle the same as walking in?

WoC can take a defensive bunker, Flying DP, 2 level 2 sorcs and 5 regenerating, fire breathing chimeras in a 3k list. For me, that is totally different to a chariots or infantry based tactic.

Empire is a combined-arms, synergy heavy army. Think "these guys aren't very good, but then I buff the crap out of them and they're awesome!"

Empire has a lot of variety, with infantry, cavalry, monstrous cavalry, Steam Tank, the ability to take any of the BRB magic lores...very few armies compare with Empire for diversity and flexibility (except maybe OnG).

ComTrav wrote:
very few armies compare with Empire for diversity and flexibility (except maybe OnG).

Nope. No-one can contend with the Empire as the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none army. OnG have no Monstrous Infantry (you can get it on some characters, but that doesn't really count) and are restricted to two Lores (outside of using the Wizarding Hat).

I am going to throw a mention to High Elves. If you aren't into the whole 'good guy' thing I can understand; but you can always paint and theme them to suit yourself, so I'd give them a look.

Thematically and fluff-wise, they are very true to their fluff on the table. I am a fairly recent Fantasy convert from 40k and fluff is a huge draw for me and their troops' tactics seem to do a pretty top notch job of fitting into their fluff.

They have a huge array of different strategies and tactics that can be used. You can go all cavalry, or all infantry, or all shooting, or tons of monsters, and any mix of those elements. So one collection of models will let you try out a bunch of different ways to play, without setting you up to fail.

You can build a list to be complicated and intricate, sure, but you can also build lists that are pretty darned straight forwards. Like big units of White Lions/Phoenix Guard backed up by units of Silver Helms or Spears or LSG in core marching up to smash face. A little magic to bolster those types of lists and you can really dish some hurt.

You can have armies full of Phoenixes and Griffons flying around wreaking havoc. One unit is a giant eagle/hawk with a chariot strapped to it and you can strap a bolt thrower onto that. Oh yeah, and they can have guys riding dragons. It's very possible to have a simple, smash-face oriented army with crazy monsters flying around to satisfy your need for random acts of dice rolling.

TL : DR - They fit most of the criterion you mentioned and they might be an army worthy of your consideration.

Surprised nobody mentioned this already but you play Daemons in 40K why not just use them for Fantasy, at least to start and get a feel for them. They have a pretty diverse play style from fighty to magic to shootey so you can at least see what you favor and use that to pick another Fantasy army.

Vampire counts can be a very interesting play with ALOT of options. Biggest problem you will run into is trying to figure out what NOT to put in your army. The army has so much synergy it can be difficult to figure out what not to include. Best way I and others have found is to decide on a "theme" for the army (ghoul list, zombie horde, vampiric, magic...pick a PART of the book rules you like) and maximize it sticking to the theme. The new vampire counts book is very well written in that there are only a very few units in the book that are sub-par. Other then that, pick some units and run them, within a game or two you will know what to do with it. Just remember that at the end of the day, the entire army is first and foremost a meatshield for the Vampires...anything else they accomplish after that is gravy.


...and they have some NASTY tricks in the book once you get to know it.


Plus, you get vampires...i mean, VAMPIRES! Some of the few characters in the game that can make even chaos think twice. You're playing with frickin DRACULA!

If your vampire lord is making a chaos lord think twice you're doing it wrong.
He shouldn't need to think twice before running

Don't take Empire. They're the polar opposite of what you want and like. You need to use double and triple unit combinations, movement and shooting and magic and simply be active in each and every phase, know exactly how, when and why to divert, what to shoot when and then stuff. Despite some outstanding units like the STank and Demis and Great Cannon they often end up with loads and loads of small to medium units. Some archers here, a chariot there, some INF, some CAV and so on...

WoC is the best idea. Yes, their forte is close combat but don't believe that makes for a boring game or army. You have a huge variety of units, heavy INF, light INF, Fast CAV, Knights, chariots, monsters, monstrous CAV, flyers galore, and a lot of that even in core. You can play a foot lord, a fast Cav sorceror, a flying monster as your General, you have access to really interesting lores that mess with movement, you can do Ld bombs or a wall of steel, fast or slow and inexorable, you get Marks and Chaos Powers to customize, Giants, Hellcannon, you name it.

I watched a game between Lizards and WoC lately, and WoC had the shooty range advantage - then messed it up by advancing too fast to get into combat. So much for preconceived notions... .-)