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I'm helping a friend get into more competitive play, and he's been playing a "fluffy" Farsight bomb for years and years now. So the Farsun bomb made sense, as his transition Army to higher level play. I've been helping him play test and refine, here is where are right now (at 1999+1). Wondering what Dakka's thoughts are. Some of these choices are dictated by the models we own (I'm loaning him some of the stuff), so they can't be changed anytime soon, but would be nice to give him a goal.

Tau Primary

HQ:
Farsight (warlord)
Shadowsun

7 Body Guards
One with no guns, Vectored Retro-Thrusters, Drone Controller, Command and Control Node, Multi Spectrum Suite, Neuroweb Sensor Suite
Three with Double plasma and target locks (one with puretide)
Three with Double Missle and target locks (one with Iridium Armor)
One with Double Fusion and a target lock
10 Gun Drones

Troops:
7 Fire Warriors
7 Fire Warriors
10 Kroot, 1 Hound

Heavy Support:
3 Misslesides with all of the missles (and the Sergeant upgrade), max missle pods. Early Warning Override

Elite:
Riptide with Ion Accelerator, Fusion, EWO and Velocity Tracker

Allies: Space Marines

HQ:
Librarian with TDA, Force Axe, Gate, Null Zone

Troops:
5 Scouts with Snipers and Camo Cloaks
5 Scouts with bolt pistol/CCW

Fortification:
Aegis with Comms Relay

Bomb with Librarian generally starts on the board behind the Aegis, and uses Gate to bounce from cover to cover killing everything. Riptide is a distraction/flier defense/deep strike defense/line breaker/objective contester. Broadsides are anti flier/deep striker/backfield control. Troops (minus Snipers) all start from reserve.

We've play tested it versus Daemons (Tzeentch Circus) and Necron Wraith Wing thus far, it's a strong build....but I'm sure it can get stronger.

There's something about putting all your eggs in 1 basket. A good Prescision Shot/Strike and you lose all your goodies. Spread out the special wargear on the suits. Don't put everything on 1 guy. Obviously, the MSS & C&CN needs to be together. Putting the VRT on another unit. Heck, get 2 VRT's for redundancy.

Make Shadowsun your Warlord for the 3D6" assault move.

I would go for all kroots for troops. Gives you much more mobility and flexibility that ways.

Not seeing why you need the Comms Relay, nor for that matter, the ADL.....especially if you swap out those fire warriors for out-flanking kroots.

Aegis is to gurantee the bomb gets a 2+ cover at the beginning of the game, and the Comms Relay is there to hold Troops out until needed (or bring the Bomb on if he has to start it in reserve, say against Triple Drake or another Farsun bomb).

Farsight is the Warlord because the bomb is moving around with Gate of Infinity, preventing it from scattering.

Definitely think all the Troops should be Kroot, but he only has 10 Kroot (the Hound is one of my Fenrisian Wolves, haha). The Bolt Pistol/CCW Scouts are there because I own them and he needs some sort of mobile scoring (ideally more Kroot)

I both agree and disagree on the upgrades. Having them all in one basket makes them easier to protect from most things, but obviously makes them easier to kill with precision shot (although ignores cover AP3 precision shots are fairly rare), I think the real weakness is to barrage sniping. I debated long and hard about it, but ultimately due to him being a newer player (well to competitive play anyway), figured it would be easier for him to track if they were on one model, but he could spread them out as he got familiar with the list.

anonymou5 wrote:
Aegis is to gurantee the bomb gets a 2+ cover at the beginning of the game, and the Comms Relay is there to hold Troops out until needed (or bring the Bomb on if he has to start it in reserve, say against Triple Drake or another Farsun bomb).

Farsight is the Warlord because the bomb is moving around with Gate of Infinity, preventing it from scattering.

Definitely think all the Troops should be Kroot, but he only has 10 Kroot (the Hound is one of my Fenrisian Wolves, haha). The Bolt Pistol/CCW Scouts are there because I own them and he needs some sort of mobile scoring (ideally more Kroot)

I both agree and disagree on the upgrades. Having them all in one basket makes them easier to protect from most things, but obviously makes them easier to kill with precision shot (although ignores cover AP3 precision shots are fairly rare), I think the real weakness is to barrage sniping. I debated long and hard about it, but ultimately due to him being a newer player (well to competitive play anyway), figured it would be easier for him to track if they were on one model, but he could spread them out as he got familiar with the list.

It should be fairly easy for the bomb to get 2+ cover from any terrain.

Good point about Farsight being the Warlord. Just make sure to check with the TO beforehand to see how they will rule it regarding GoI and Farsight's Warlord trait. I know there is much controversy regarding that.

One thing you should consider is swapping out the 2nd unit of scouts for a land speeder storm. Although you lose 1 unit of scouts, you give them extra mobility with a transport that can outflank as well. Just something to consider.

While I agree that simplicity is better for a newer player, this list is anything but simple. You can keep the special suit as is, but you should definitely get a 2nd VRT for redundancy. It is just too easy to snipe out that unit. Besides barrage sniping, you have Tzeentch shooting (either heralds or FMC's), eldar exarch with Fast Shot (and with a tau commander in the unit to ignore cover), tau missile-sides, etc. Not only that, but you have Precision Strikes from cc as well, including tyrand/daemon FMC's (especially if they charge with multiple units), the seer council and any army with multiple fast characters.

BTW, it's a nasty list, but frankly, if I can find the points, I'd recommend running triptides (triple riptides) with the farsun bomb instead....but that's just me.

You're absolutely right about a second VRT, I'll have him do that. It's just too important to lose.

The Aegis probably is not "needed" for first turn cover, but it does ensure it, plus let's you deploy the bomb where you want. Plus, as I said, in some match ups he may still want to deep strike (and as the Librarian is in TDA, he can deep strike as well), and the Comms Relay lets him control his arrival (I love the comms relay). Plus, it's hard to overstate how important it is to keep your Troops safe when running MSU Troops like that.

I actually don't think the list is viable without the Librarian, and not just because of Gate. Gate, obviously, is nice, because it essentially gurantees the Bomb has cover, plus makes it much easier for the Bomb to pick targets (say stay out of Markerlight range of all but one squad of Pathfinders and kill them plus a unit of outflanking Kroot, as one example). But, most importantly because of ATSKNF. That allows the Bomb to be far more aggressive both with placement (as one unlucky roll of an 11 doesn't mean a dead deathstar) and because it allows more aggressive use of the Puretide. Now he doesn't have to pick "Stubborn" if he doesn't want to, as he can never be swept. This leaves MH, TH, etc as constant options. It also forces an oppossing player a hard choice when the challenge gets declined....Do I take out Farsight's sword or a Force Axe? Either way, no bueno. In play testing, I had to take the Librarian out (force axe + monster hunter versus Daemon Prince = no bueno), leaving Farsight free to put down some wounds.

Plus, Null Zone is also amazing (With Monster Hunter plus Gate, the bomb can kill a flying, Grimoired Fateweaver in one shooting phase). The Librarian adds so much to the unit, without really taking anything away (just assault move, but Gate more than makes up for that)

Triple Riptides is obviously awesome, but aside from the fact he only owns one...Riptides require Markerlights to really do a lot of damage. Misslesides do not. Once you factor in the cost of the bomb itself, the Librarian, Troops, etc....points are getting tight. Misslesides behind an Aegis are almost as hard to shift as a Riptide and put out far more damage (again without actually needing markers).... Obviously they're effectively immobile and the Riptide is better for contesting/linebreaker/counter assault. But he has one Riptide for that job, he doesn't NEED two/three (although they would be nice). And really, the Riptide is overrated as a counter assault unit (I have killed more Riptides through sweeping advance more than any other way).

Land Speeder Storm isn't a bad idea, I may suggest that to him.

Thanks!

GoI allows you to leave combat so the VRT aren't as important as you're making out.

You have very little AA. Also what is the Point of the VT on the Riptide? Drop it along with the 'vre upgrade on the Missilesides. Riptide doesn't really dovetail well with the bomb. Drop it for saturation and transport killing fire from the likes if Missilesides and Skyrays

Get Skyrays, 2 is my advice.

LSS is entirely useless in this edition. It went from best delivery system in the game to the worse. Never take it.

VRTs are not so important, GoI lets you disengage too. Besides, being a support system and not a signature system you have to remove either a gun or a target lock, and you don't want to do that.

Don't give the Libby a terminator armor, it costs a lot and prevents you from making sweeping advances. You don't need him to be protected at all thanks to the Sworn Protector rule.

I would agree with FlingitNow and remove the Riptide for 2 Skyrays, excellent source of AA and a very nice alpha strike as well.

You can (and should) always hide the suit with the gadgets from sight, or at least have a 2+ cover save on it. I would personally (and i do so in my list) give that suit the PENchip as well, it's true that everything is on that model, but unless you lose that, your effectiveness isn't diminished one bit. It's a matter of preferences though, i prefer high risk/high reward. Don't worry too much about assaults from FMCs and the like, if you move properly you won't get assaulted, expecially not by more than one enemy (worst case scenario, versus a flying circus, challenge with Farsight, his trait is not that important in that specif match-up).

LSS is useless, don't consider it.

Do you have other 3 missilesides? At 2000 points, removing something (like redundant trops, this list is fine with 3 of them, expecially with a comms relay), your HS slots could be 6 full missilesides and a Skyray.

Or take a 4th troop choice and have 6 Missilesides AND 2 Sky rays

 FlingitNow wrote:
Or take a 4th troop choice and have 6 Missilesides AND 2 Sky rays

Not really possible, unfortunately It's 1999+1, not 2000, so single FOC.

Good point well made...

Some solid points in here. Appreciate the feedback.
Good call on Gate and Assaults, I didn’t even think of that. The Librarian is all value added, for sure.
My initial idea was Skyrays, but he only has one. I’m a believer in multiples of Armor, one Skyray is just giving your opponent an obvious target (and against a lot of Armies, surrendering first blood). You need two. But if he keeps building on this list, I’ll push him towards two Skyrays.

The VT on the Riptide is worth it just for board control. A skyfire twinlinked melta gun creates a no fly zone 18 inches from the Riptide. That’s a huge benefit, and it adds to the Skyfire options in the list. It may not be worth the points, but in play testing thus far, it has been worth its weight. The list actually does pretty well on Skyfire. Misslesides are flier murderers, the Riptide is decent, and the bomb (with tank hunter) can reliably kill 2 AV 10 fliers in a turn, if not more (jumping into rear armor is huge). So while I agree Skyrays would be ideal, he’s doing fine on AA.

The Riptide is also awesome for contesting objectives, which is huge in tournament play. On that lines, three Troops is nowhere near enough in tournies (at least here). The ATC as an example has 7 objectives. You ain’t beating a good Wraithwing (the tournament standard Army until proven otherwise, which may be happening soon, haha), with three Troops, on 7 objectives, no matter how good your Death Star is. You can’t kill everything.

Terminator Armor on the Librarian is more to retain the flexibility of coming in from reserves. While 9/10 times that’s a bad idea, it’s worth keeping as an option for those games where it makes sense. The loss of sweeping advance is not a huge deal, because you’re generally HnRing out/winning combat on HIS turn, and any unit you COULD sweeping advance, you can probably pop with minimal resources shooting.

I fully admit to not being a Tau expert (as I don’t play them), but the upgrade to leadership 9 on the Broadsides is absolutely worth it. The difference between LD 8 and LD 9 is GIGANTIC. Leadership 9 fails 15% of the time, LD 8 fails 26% of the time (http://anydice.com/). It’s worth 10 points to keep a unit that expensive and powerful on the table.

anonymou5 wrote:
Some solid points in here. Appreciate the feedback.
Good call on Gate and Assaults, I didn’t even think of that. The Librarian is all value added, for sure.
My initial idea was Skyrays, but he only has one. I’m a believer in multiples of Armor, one Skyray is just giving your opponent an obvious target (and against a lot of Armies, surrendering first blood). You need two. But if he keeps building on this list, I’ll push him towards two Skyrays.

The VT on the Riptide is worth it just for board control. A skyfire twinlinked melta gun creates a no fly zone 18 inches from the Riptide. That’s a huge benefit, and it adds to the Skyfire options in the list. It may not be worth the points, but in play testing thus far, it has been worth its weight. The list actually does pretty well on Skyfire. Misslesides are flier murderers, the Riptide is decent, and the bomb (with tank hunter) can reliably kill 2 AV 10 fliers in a turn, if not more (jumping into rear armor is huge). So while I agree Skyrays would be ideal, he’s doing fine on AA.

The Riptide is also awesome for contesting objectives, which is huge in tournament play. On that lines, three Troops is nowhere near enough in tournies (at least here). The ATC as an example has 7 objectives. You ain’t beating a good Wraithwing (the tournament standard Army until proven otherwise, which may be happening soon, haha), with three Troops, on 7 objectives, no matter how good your Death Star is. You can’t kill everything.

Terminator Armor on the Librarian is more to retain the flexibility of coming in from reserves. While 9/10 times that’s a bad idea, it’s worth keeping as an option for those games where it makes sense. The loss of sweeping advance is not a huge deal, because you’re generally HnRing out/winning combat on HIS turn, and any unit you COULD sweeping advance, you can probably pop with minimal resources shooting.

I fully admit to not being a Tau expert (as I don’t play them), but the upgrade to leadership 9 on the Broadsides is absolutely worth it. The difference between LD 8 and LD 9 is GIGANTIC. Leadership 9 fails 15% of the time, LD 8 fails 26% of the time (http://anydice.com/). It’s worth 10 points to keep a unit that expensive and powerful on the table.

Skyrays, expecially with Dpods, are quite hard to kill... AV13, and you will deploy them in cover, for a 3+/4+ cover save. Plus, after turn 1 they usually are without missiles, and therefore become an extremely low priority target.

I still don't like the Riptide, in my experience (i have been running a Farsight Bomb list a lot lately, with huge success) there are better things for this list.

I have to disagree on troops: i am perfectly fine with 3 units (2x6 FWs + 5 scouts), it doesn't matter how many objectives are on the table, most games are won by wipe-out (yes, vs wraithwing too. I have done it multiple times. If used properly, this list can kill everything). And even if you can't wipe the enemy completely, you can make damn sure that HIS scoring units will die, at the very least. Therefore, you win with First Blood (very easy to score, and absolutely guaranteed if you start first), Warlord and Linebreaker. I won a few games after all my troops have been murdered. Kroots, FWs and snipers don't survive anyway if the enemy focuses them a little, your best bet is use points for actual firepower. Usually scoring units are a necessity, and the backbone of most armies, but this list doesn't need them (it's probably the only list that doesn't, along with Necron lists with 3-4x5 warriors on scythes). This is not theory, it's personal experience (32-0 with my Farsight Bomb list, and most games were in tournaments).

I found that there is not a single scenario in which you should deep-strike. The Terminator armor is a waste of points.

I totally agree on Ld9 for the Broadsides, i use it as well and it makes a big difference.

You may be right on the Riptide, and the Skyrays. You have more experience with the list than I do. That said, the Riptide will work for now, it's good for Deep Strike defense too. Especially since Rune Priests walking out of a Drop Pod could really mess up the Bomb with ease.

Edit: We will try the SKyrays, I mean the Riptide will have to work for his first tourney, because the list deadline passed. Haha.

I can think of a few realistic scenarios for tourney play where you may still want to Deep Strike. Triple Dragon is an obvious one, come in behind them and alpha strike them. And Triple Dragon is still everywhere in tournament play. Or IG Colossus/Thud Gun/Earthshaker Platform spam with Rune Priest/Librarian support (also super common, and a Colossus/RP build might just be game over for a Farsun bomb starting on the table). Or against an enemy Farsun bomb, spread out and hide your Army on the table to prevent tabling and alpha strike his bomb. There are obviously more (4 Rune Priests, for example. Guarantee you get to kill some before they start being annoying)

And I stand by my statement that you can't kill everything. Not in a tournament. You'll run into an enemy you're not ready for, or get out maneuver, or get the bomb boxed in, or whatever. Wraithwing was one example. Good luck tabling a Slaneesh Rush horde. I used Wraithwing because in our test games I brought Wraithwing against my buddy. He could not kill all my Troops. All my MTO stuff died, (18 Wraiths, 2 Dlords, 3 ABs), but I spread objectives out and plopped on them with Warriors (I also counter deployed well enough to get 6 Wraiths and a DLord into his Broadsides and Riptide, they woulda gotten Skyrays too had they existed, lol). End game was my surviving Night Scythes racing to kill Troops faster than the bomb could teleport around killing mine. I don't doubt your skill or record, but you cannot win every tournament game via tabling or near tabling, you have to be able to score. It's not like it's costing you all that much killing power to run MSU Kroot/Scout units (which would be the best way to do it, Fire Warriors are the wrong choice, just all my buddy has)

Troops die WAY too easily, and if you use them just to score, you are wasting points you could use for firepower. Until now, i never found any reason to use more than the minimum number of troops, you just have to understand how the list works (it actually requires some skill to do well, more than any other Tau list). Once you familiarize yourself with this list, you realize how to make it work properly, and i assure you that in most games you will table your enemy, even in tournaments. I'm not talking theory here, i talk from personal experience...