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Hi, I've been looking around a bit after my brother expressed interest in war machine at a flames of war tournament. I think I have figured out what I am going to run, a cygnar? army. I read the starting rules and it looks like a fun game, but I really don't like the visuals on any of the army's warjacks. All of the infantry and characters look fine to me, but when ever I look at a warjack, I am put off. I have extensive experience with conversions, so I was wondering if a Post Civil war/WW1 "practical" themed warjacks would look alright? For example, a shield would just be an additional series of plates w/ shock absorbers or a roll cage. A Spear would be a piston driven spike w/ options for limited traverse. With sword options, I think I would do a spinning bar on a small limb if my opponents allowed me, or just make it look more like an urban assault mech that pulled out a nasty looking knife. Hammers would be easy enough, just a solid wedge with hydraulics.

What do you guys think?

My brother is still deciding on his force, and he likes the looks of the warjacks, so there won't be any trouble with conversions. He likes lots of AoE(particularly flamethrower) weapons and close combat, and prefers tanking or overwelming with hordes over speed.

What faction would be best for him?(also recommend warcasters please )

Thanks

Your brother sounds like a Menoth guy. Crushing the heretics/unbelievers with the power of flame, song, and synergy. Not the most awesome "beat your face in" faction, but they can pull off so much buffing/synergy that their thoroughly average jacks get very scary. EDIT: also just tell them they have a unit armed entirely with flamethrowers that is also immune to fire, so if they get charged in close combat the back rank can just hose down the front rank and end the problem. They can also combine all their flamethrower shots into a giant fireball (i.e. an AOE attack).



I'll suggest what I suggest for a lot of people, you can go to a website called 'battlecollege' to get an overview of factions/casters. Also if you want a second opinion (battlecollege is very positive about every unit, even the ones that aren't as good) you can check out a podcast called Chain Attack. They play a different match each week, then rate the casters based on different categories. They also have a handy chart of all the casters they've done and what grades they have.

With conversions, you can do them, but since how the game is designed, you are not going to be able to play in tournaments since it needs to be able to tell what the model is right off the bat. Best thing I would do is try and give the Merc and/or Cygnar jacks a look, as that seems to fit your description.


For your brother from what he seems to want, Menoth is a rather good faction who can run jacks pretty damn good and their infantry are pretty damn good as well. Plus, you can play them with a Synergy that makes them hard nut to crack and make the other person a bit frustrated, and can throw out a lot of AoEs that can set opponents models on fire. Best thing I would do is get the Menoth Battlebox, as it comes with a damn good Warcaster to start out with (pKreoss, or High Exemplar Kreoss) and get three jacks as well for $50 USD, or cheaper if you buy it off Miniature Market and other places.

Edit: Damn it dementedwombat, you beat me to the punch with Menoth.

To give you a heads up on conversions,

PP has some pretty stringent rules on conversions as far as tournaments go, and most groups will also follow these as well just to keep things running smoothly.

A shield will have to be exactly that. If something is armed with a spear, it should have some sort of long pointy weapon. etc... The model also has to be based on the actual model itself, IE: an Old Rowdy conversion needs to be based on the Old Rowdy model.

This is because it is important for your opponent to be able to identify the model in question. He shouldn't have to ask you over and over what its supposed to be. Its all about courtesy. No fair winning because your opponent thought that was a Hammersmith instead of an Ironclad.

A spinning bar on a small limb sounds to me more like a mace or flail than a sword, and they do have different rules. Most maces and flails have the Chain Weapon special rule.

Agreed on the Mercenary front. Some of their jacks actually look pretty cool, one of them has a chainsaw type weapon and I'm pretty sure another has a hydraulic punching spike thing (although I could be getting that mixed up with something else).

Magnus the traitor/warlord (depending on the version) is a darn cool caster from a background and model perspective and the feat on Magnus the Warlord is one of the better area denial feats that isn't so good the opponent gets mad at you when you drop it (pick any 2 board edges, the opponent can't move any of his models that start within about a foot of your warcaster closer to those two board edges for one turn).

Also, don't forget that Hordes is compatable with warmachine; maybe you don't like 'Jacks, but do like the idea of ripping your enemies appart with Dragon-sharks or something.

Plenty (most) casters don't like more than one maybe two jacks. So just go troop heavy.

Your conversion ideas are fine for playing with friends and probably at your LGS. But if you start to get into tournies then you will want things your opponent will easily recognize.

The main reason for this is that most tournies are timed. And having to ask what everything is takes a lot of time.

If nothing else, use your cool conversions and if you start playing tournies then have the original model ready to rep it if your opponent requests it.

go to your game place and ask if your can play a game and have them teach you, thats what got me into warmachine.

also if you dont like the look of jacks then try hordes, just note hordes' focus system is kinda backwards so it will be confusing between the too but when you have giant mamoths/dragons/werewolves/aligators/trolls crushing your oppoents face in, then its all worth wile when your strat works

I don't thing hordes would be for me. I don't like the fantasy side of warmachine, I am more interested in the steampunk side. I was thinking as a start-

Main warcaster
Hunter
2 Lancers
squad of trenchers
Trencher cannon
Journeyman warcaster
Grenadier

Just through looking at the battlecollege

You have the right idea going for a combined arms approach but if I may, please allow me to offer some critique of your list.

I'll assume that by "main warcaster" you mean commander Stryker. from the battlebox. He's a solid attrition caster and a buff toolbox. A good caster to learn with.

The list you presented is 33 points where 35 is much more typical. You could add a squire or two trencher weapon attachments to round it out.

The hunter is a great light. It will serve you well in dealing with heavy armor. I find it to be newbie-friendly since they have parry and pathfinder.

Two lancers is likely overkill when you have no heavy. The cortex damage will work against most warmachine factions but not hordes or convergence. From my experience it is better to bring a heavy jack and smash anything rather than rely on a certain ability to cripple some things.

I'm not a big fan of trencher infantry but there are a few people who get good use from them. You might want to consider trencher commandos instead since they have several advantages unique in the cygnar army. Trencher infantry do slightly better than commandos against heavy armor but those are not ideal targets for either unit.

Trencher cannons are almost universally panned as bad. Light artillery units have a hard time in a mobile game and the trencher cannon is perhaps the worst of them. I can't recommend this unit to anyone but the most advanced players.

The journeyman warcaster is a faction staple and a great addition. You will be able to get most of your army to very high armor for Stryker's feat turn. I would recommend having him operate the hunter over the grenadier however, as the hunter never needs more than two focus.

The grenadier is a fairly useful light that would see much more play if trenchers were more popular. It will fit in well in a list that utilizes trenchers. I suggest having it controlled by Stryker in case you need to boost multiple attack or damage rolls -the journeyman can only really afford to allocate two of his three focus if upkeeping arcane shield.

It is advised to start small and play 15 and 25 point games before working up to 35 and 50, but if you want a shopping list to start panting and grow into I would recommend the following. I tried to stay close to your original list.

Commander Coleman Stryker (*6pts)
* Grenadier (5pts)
* Lancer (6pts)
* Centurion (9pts)
Trencher Commandos (Leader and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
* Hunter (6pts)

The biggest change is the addition of a centurion over the second lancer and cannon. I understand you have a distaste for warjacks but the plastic centurion is a wonderful kit and lends itself well to modifications. Think of it as a walking heavy artillery that uses a spear rather than a cannon.

The other change is from trencher infantry to commandos. Either unit will fill this spot but commandos work better for me.

What about a lightning themed list- I like the idea of tesla coil weapons ripping up infantry and close combat weapons zapping cortexes. Maybe start with nemo and a lancer, as well as stormblade infantry with a stromclad?

Nemo2 stormcaller/firefly spam (guest appearance by Thinderhead and maybe a stormwall) would get annoying for your opponents very quickly. Completely ignoring defense and hitting with a potential 21 attacks ( 7 storm callers + triangulate on the fireflies) as long as you roll less than a 9? Sounds pretty good to me.

Cygnar... I have no words.

I tend to like lightning cygnar more than soldier cygnar. I even own two battle engines.

I dont think I will ever get a stormwall- to big a chalenge to convert, but a thunderhead is definately in the realm of possibility. Can you guys make me a good starting list with non epic nemo in it?

I still advise starting with battlebox games or at at 15 point mangled metal but in the interest of giving you some direction here is a sample pNemo list. he can run many different builds however so feel free to make adjustments.

Commander Adept Nemo (*6pts)
* Lancer (6pts)
* Minuteman (5pts)
* Stormclad (10pts)
Tactical Arcanist Corps (4pts)
Stormblade Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard (3pts)
* 3 Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner (3pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)


Nemo takes either a lancer or Sylys Wyshnylar any time he wants to cast chain lightning. In this case a lancer adds some durability and zone control presence to the list.

The minuteman is a wonderful light jack that works well with Nemo's overcharge ability. It can take on either an anti-armor or anti-infantry role.

The stormclad is the heavy-hiter of the list and you will want to put effort into it reaching it's target intact. The damage output from an overcharged stormclad with disruption field is on par with an infamous bronzeback titan.

Tactical arcanist corps are part of nemo's support team, covering his advance with cloud effects and feeding him power tokens. They can also hurl fireballs if the action gets too close.

Stormblades ease the focus burden for the stormclad's accumulator and provide high power combined arms infantry. The officer and storm gunners increase their guns' threat ranges to help force the engagement on your terms.

Rhupert offers support to the stormblades like tough or pathfinder. you probably won't bother with +1 def in this list, but you might get it to work by stacking it with the clouds from the TAC.

The stormcallers are great solos that fit the electric theme and scalpel out solos or stealth threats. You could take a squire over two of them if you want.

The tactical arcanist corps and Rhupert are mercenaries. If you have an aversion to mercenaries do NOT start cygnar.

Oh, yah, that looks like a good list, but I was looking at a 15 or 25 point list- I know how starting warmachine needs to be gotten into gradually- is a 25 or 15 point list ok, or would you REALLY advise getting the battlebox? Both my brother and I are pretty good at picking up new rulesets.

the battleboxes are good values to help new players build collections fast. The cygnar box has the only arc node in the faction, a cheap ranged light, a vanilla heavy, and a buff/attrition caster. The ironclad is the model least likely to see play in an expanded collection but it fits very well as a substitute for more specialized jacks when you need to save points. I would recommend the battlebox for anyone who expects to build their collection at a slower pace.

Oh, by the way, can someone please give me height shoulder width head to back measurements on all of the different chassises(not individual warjacks) and the warjack commander figure? I would also like this for menoth. Thanks!

The model sizes aren't really relevant to game play. If you are making cut-outs or something just do what looks good. As long as the base size is correct you can represent the model any way you see fit.

 Dais wrote:
The model sizes aren't really relevant to game play. If you are making cut-outs or something just do what looks good. As long as the base size is correct you can represent the model any way you see fit.

This. LoS is drawn by volume determined by base size. Models take up a cylinder that is composed of the base area up to a height determined by base size, not what the model is actually sized(true LoS).

OK, so scratch building has pretty loose standards besides show all weapons correctly- Also, I showed my brother battle college and he liked the idea of mech battering rams, so I guess he is going with khador.(the behemoth might have helped too)

If you are going to make simplistic cut outs or similar to learn the game before actually playing, then simply make cylinders. I can't remember the exact heights at the moment (I'm still a newbie at Warmachine) but I seem to recall the standard infantry being 30mm cylinder of 1,75" height. This would actually make targeting and cover easier than using proper miniatures.

IIRC its 1.75", 2", and 3" for small, medium, and large bases respectively. Huge bases are 5"