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well im not sure what i can do. here is what i have.
1 (5) sternguard
2 (5) sangunine guards
1 (5) death company
1 Death company dreadnought
1 Drop Pod
1 Rihno
1 (10) Assault marine squad
1 (5) Devasttor squad
1 librarian
1 (10) Tactical space marine squad
dante
lemarties
chapter master gabriel seth
1 reg Dreadnought
1 (5) Termies
1 (5) scouts
1 (5 ) sternguard (on order not arrived yet)
Brother corbulo
1 sanugary priest.

it seems like assault marines and baal predators are fan favories. why? how do i use my assault marines effectively? and what can i do whit what i have to me semi competitive. im getting destroyed my eldar, tau, and chaos. any advice would be great advice. thanks

My 2 cents, for what they're worth: Corbulo and Sternguard in a drop pod are excellent. He can tank so many wounds (he did roll 4 consecutive 1's in my last game to get melted by an Executioner...very sad) that the Sterns will almost always live long enough to deal some real damage and frequently get linebreaker.

Don't use Dante as Dante, or Seth, or Lemartes. They cost too much and don't do enough.

Same for Sanguinary Guard. Terminator points for models that hit less hard and live less long than termies is not a good deal.

I'd suggest running the Guard as Assault Marines and getting some Predators.

Thanks.So i can run like a sanguary preist and corbulo and squad of sternguards in a drop pod? Wow, i didnt even think of that. How do you use you assault marines? deep strike or no?

For even more epic lulz, package a libby with shield of sanguinius, corbs, and a 8 sternguard. This has the benefit than you can come down, melta something to death, then cast shield on your opponent's turn and give all your guys 5++/5++ vs S7 and below. Note that Tau ruin this plan for multiple reason, but not every foe is Tau. And Corbs can still tank and gets a 5++/2++ vs things like plasma. Corbs is a sanguinary priest, so you don't need another priest. But you can use the libby scheme.

Also dropping fragnoughts is pretty epic too.

Deep striking ASM don't get drop pod assault, so I start them on the board. That way, turn 2 assaults or even turn 1 assaults are possible.

The Corbulo + Librarian and sternguard was the first thing I ran in 6th. Whenever I play my BA they almost always make a showing.

Corbulo with a coversave can take small arms fire for days.

My basic setup for BA now (to be competitve) plays out like this.

Castle
Tactical squad PG/PC
Devestators x4 ML x2
Priest
-> hard to move off an objective and tacticals can run out on turn 5/6 to grab closer objectives. Add a librarian here to give devestators rerolls, rerolling frag missles is amazing.

1-2 RAS squads with melta. Ras are not godly at combat but still serve the role as anti tank, objective grabbers and screens.

3 Mm attack bikes with priest on attack bike. Love this unit, t5 2w fnp bikes are a amazing unit. The 3 MM's will cover any AV 14. Also a priest on a bike is a better investment then one with a JP imo (10 points for +1 t, tl bolter).

If you really want a unit to punch things in the face, TH/SS and LC terminators in a stormraven or landraider is your best bet.


In overview infantry based BA are not that strong in CC (save terminators) but they have tons of mobility (taking objectives and dictating combat), mid/long range firepower and survivability (thanks to FNP). You will win more matches when you abuse these aspects. Or another way of looking at it is that most armies (save IG/Tau/sisters) can out punch us easily, it makes more sense to abuse the FNP and make them have to shift us into combat, with JP and good use of terrain you can often get them to overextend and collapse one of their flanks.

thanks guys i apprecate it. if you come up with anything else let me know ill have to remake my 1000, 1500, and 2000 pt lists for that. Thanks again

I wouldn't run ML in a BA list. The ML as a weapon has gotten worse and worse in 6th edition, not that it was good to begin with. Typhoon launchers, maybe, but never single shot MLs.

MLs are still good in my opinion, I've got MM bikes for MCs and big armour vehicles so a Div Libby with the ML devs can easily handle med-light vehicles and infantry.

I've been running the super expensive Lascanon Devs because we're seeing alot more high T stuff lately, but they don't earn their points back in most cases simply due to the number of wounds these high T MCs have. ML rarely fail to earn their points back, unless we see a serious drop in cost for the LCs in the next codex I can't really see them becoming viable.

D

How have ML gotten worse?
With glancing str 8 has only gotten better and with hoard rerolling frag templates is one of the most cost effective methods BA have to deal with it. Ask a SW player if all of a sudden longfangs have gotten worse.

Typhoon launcher vs ML devestator.

Terminator with launcher
40 point unit + 30 points for a Typhoon launcher
= 35 points per shot.

Devestator with ML
18 points unit + 10 points for a ML
= 28 points per shot.

If you include the unit 'tax' (units required that dont add to the ML weight of fire) it gets even more lopsided.
Terminator Squad = 160 points (for 4 terminators)
Devestator Squad = 26 points for the sgt


So overall
Terminator squad point per ML shot: 115 or 230 points for 2 ML shots.
Devestator squad point per ML shot: 32.5 or 130 for 4 ML shots. Hell you could buy a librarian (with divination) to toss in that squad for the point difference.

While thse extra 83 points do get you powerfists and 2+ armor, its a high tax to pay when just comparing the cost of firing a str 8 ap3 shot. The terminators also get the bonus of moving, but with a decent employment + the range of a ML this often is not a concern.

ML rarely fail to earn their points back? You are dedicating a 100 pt libby and a 130+ point squad and a heavy slot to kill transports? By glancing them to death with a ROF 1 weapon?

Because of the cost of lascannon devs and the utter ineffectiveness of ML devs, I have stopped running devs altogether.

What is your more effective way of adding in str 8+ shots to your army then?

130 points for 4 str 8 shots is considered a steal by many, and for good reason.

There are multiple problems with 130 pts for 4 STR 8 shots.

First off, they are AP 3. Which means you can't engage riptides, can't engage terminators, or obliterators. Furthermore, AP 3 all but ensures that you will have to glance targets to death. With ROF 1, that sucks out loud. Havoc autocannon marines make you look silly.

Secondly, they can't move and fire effectively. AV 13 and AV 14 laugh at ST 8. Speeders with typhoons can maneuver to get shots on the sides of vehicles, where the krak missiles will actually have an effect.

Third, 5 meq bodies for 130 pts is not a steal durability wise, even in cover. They get the long fang treatment quite often, and its not pretty.

The BA really have problems fielding heavy weapons for reasonable prices on effective platforms. The single best such platform is the MM attack bike, which is not even a heavy choice! This is one of the reason we are the second worst or even the worst list in the game.

In most games, I find the auto/las pred a more effective use of a heavy support slot than any possible devastator configuration for the BA. The ability to move 12" and fire an autocannon and lascannon into the side of an enemy vehicle is not to be underestimated, nor is it ability to move around and keep its AV 13 pointed at enemies. Granted, this selection if far, far from perfect. It would be much stronger with DA tri las pricing.

At the end of the day, this means very little. You can take your ML devs and probably lose, and I'll take the auto/las pred and still lose. But I just find the ML to be a very, very underwhelming weapon in 6th edition.

I wrote an article on Blood angels you might like to read:
http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/05/how-do-i-make-blood-angels-work-again.html

There's some ongoing discussion going on there.

Blood angels can't be played like they used to be but they are STILL the number one toughest matchup for me no matter what army I use. Mephiston is just too Effing awesome. CONSTANTLY destroys an enormous chunk of my force on his own.

Thats a good read, Dakka Baal preds are definitely still usable. Oddly enough armour BA is still one of our strongest roles.

Fast vindicators, Baal Preds and Predators + Furioso dreads in still a scary combo alot of people are not prepared to deal with

Unfortunately, none of those score and aren't good enough to table. Mephiston is..... meh. He's a gamble and a half to say the least.

If you think BA are a tough matchup, bring Eldar. You can table the BA in 3 or 4 turns due to their pathetic model count. Frankly, I don't see how the BA aren't quite easy since many of their tactics revolve around getting close. In the process of getting close, you shoot them and they go away. Are you sure the people playing BA aren't playing with too many points? Especially if they are using Mephiston? He's a model count killer in a codex that already fields a prohibitively small amount of models.

I think you're dismissing Mephiston far too quickly. and you dont have to score with the armor and Dreads. You just have to keep the enemy busy. And they will. acceptable losses are part of Warhammer. Its not what you kill all the time. Sometimes its WHEN.

I've seen Mephiston do awesome and then I have personally gunned him down in a hail of plasma fire. At 250 points, he's an incredible risk. Anything with a 2+ armor save can bog him down indefinitely. The bigger problem is that AP 2 makes a mockery of him, as most AP 2 weapons wound him easily. I won't get into the shuriken rule.

Keeping the enemy busy in a codex where everything, including your recommended takes, is overcosted in 6th is a chore and a half. The furioso thing is cool, and I use fragnought myself, but serious lists just don't care.

The problem with BA is that everything is so expensive that acceptable losses get passed about turn 2 or so. Then you start taking unacceptable losses. The model count thing is murder because these 6th edition lists are far more free to focus fire the things they really care about and just let the more mediocre units fester.

I dunno. Bl;ood Angels persist as my number one difficulty. No other army gives me the same matchup problems and I play a lot of armies. Mephiston is by far the best thing in that codex and he has no weaknesses. No Iron Halo? Great! Give the guy FIVE WOUNDS and TOUGH 6. Fixed.

A hail of plasma kills everything. Thats not particular to Mephiston. and since you know that, Mephiston can sort of navigate away from those threats (not in all mattchups, but in a lot of them) and use interposing terrain and vehicles to get him to better matchups...which is what the good BA players do to me. Terrain alone can make him a nigh unstoppable beast. His statline is so silly that I cant name one thing thats excited to hang out with him.

In any event, if the question is how to win with Blood Angels, start with him in your army and get good at using him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hazal wrote:
Thats a good read, Dakka Baal preds are definitely still usable. Oddly enough armour BA is still one of our strongest roles.

Fast vindicators, Baal Preds and Predators + Furioso dreads in still a scary combo alot of people are not prepared to deal with

Thanks and glad you enjoyed it.

So, it takes exactly 45 Shuriken shots to kill Mephiston on average if he doesn't have cover. Fewer, if we're talking Warp Spiders, Shuriken Cannons, anything that can wound without Rending.

Mephy is not really that durable in today's meta. He's a bully, he can easily run through your backfield if you let him, but he isn't (and really never was) a world-beater.

And the ubiquitous Lord of Change buffed by the Grimoire would be more than happy to hang out with him. If you want a silly statline, consider a model with a 2++ save that rerolls 1's.

 MrEconomics wrote:
So, it takes exactly 45 Shuriken shots to kill Mephiston on average if he doesn't have cover. Fewer, if we're talking Warp Spiders, Shuriken Cannons, anything that can wound without Rending.

Mephy is not really that durable in today's meta. He's a bully, he can easily run through your backfield if you let him, but he isn't (and really never was) a world-beater.

And the ubiquitous Lord of Change buffed by the Grimoire would be more than happy to hang out with him. If you want a silly statline, consider a model with a 2++ save that rerolls 1's.

Of course, the Grimoire buffed lord of change requires a similar amount of points to field, is a problem for most anything in the game, and requires babysitting from another HQ to remain nearly unkillable. Also, the grimoire COULD actually backfire and make him less durable. It's not as if it's an automatic buff.

What I love is that everyone enjoys bashing on Meph (or whatever the object of a person's ire is) by pointing out his weaknesses while giving out examples of what's "so much better" without the same level of scrutiny aimed at the supposed better unit. No, Mephiston isn't unkillable. Yes, if you play Mephiston in a smart manner, he can dominate an opponent. Both statements are true, and both can be used to describe many 250+ point units in the game.

I don't think your lists are the problem per se; they are suffering from the problem, but the real issue I can see is model selection. You have very little redundancy across your collection, disallowing you from taking any multiples of a squad.

I even stated that sometimes he does awesome up above. The problem is that for 250 pts, he need to be consistently awesome, and he just isn't.