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I'm taking some CSM Allies with my crons and was just wondering which would be the better choice in a competitive environment

Well, autocannon Havocs provide you with mass Strength 7 shooting... unless you need the Ap. 4 you can find that in your codex very easily. So, I'd recommend a single Heldrake and a tri-Las Predator

Well as it stands right now in my list I lack the points for a tri-las pred otherwise I wouldn't be in this situation.

As it stands my list is

HQ
Destroyer Lord 160
MSS
SW

TROOPS
5 Warriors 165
Night Scythe

5 Warriors 165
Night Scythe

FAST ATTACK
6 Wraiths 220
Whip Coil

6 Wraiths 220
Whip Coil

HEAVY SUPPORT
Annihilation Barge 90
Annihilation Barge 90
Annihilation Barge 90

HQ
Daemon Prince 265
Daemon of Tzeentch
Black Mace
Wings
Power Armour

TROOPS
10 Cultists 50
10 Cultists 50

FAST ATTACK
Helldrake 170
Baleflamer

HEAVY SUPPORT
5 AutoHavocs or Autolas Pred?

I'm taking this to a GT so I am obviously going for the most competitive choice

I just don't think that the Havocs add anything to your list, there's already plenty of Tesla, autos dont do much there. The Auto-las pred would be better, but maybe combine the 2x10 squads into a 15 man and upgrade that auto to Las.

You don't have much against av 14 so you might want some of that but you might not need it

better question is why do you need chaos allies?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
better question is why do you need chaos allies?

I need an excuse to build and paint my old metal DP and I figured this is pretty competitive. Also I had a peek at the last few tourneys in my area and the top armies were tau crons chaos and daemons. I figured since I can't do much for uber competitive crons or chaos I should do both to fill in the cracks


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jifel wrote:
I just don't think that the Havocs add anything to your list, there's already plenty of Tesla, autos dont do much there. The Auto-las pred would be better, but maybe combine the 2x10 squads into a 15 man and upgrade that auto to Las.

If I do that then I will not have enough scoring units to be a competitive list

I think Chaos fits very well into that list. Heldrake / Daemon Prince / Oblits with a single squad of cultists seems best to me.

 Brymm wrote:
I think Chaos fits very well into that list. Heldrake / Daemon Prince / Oblits with a single squad of cultists seems best to me.

i need 2 squads of cultists to keep enough scoring in my list otherwise all they have to do is kill my scoring and GG.

i am thinking of the autolas pred since I do not have any long range anti AV 14 and that way all my firing platforms are av 13 so they are nice and durable

Well, a Predator behind an Ägis can be quite durable with a 4+ cover save while a small Havoc squad with almost no ablative wounds can die quite easily if targeted.

 wuestenfux wrote:
e while a small Havoc squad with almost no ablative wounds can die quite easily if targeted.

This.

I was using havoc's and found they kept getting blown off the table when people looked at them. Any player worth their salt just delt with the threat as they are very vunlerable.
This leaves you with one of two options, adding more ablative bodies -- which can get expensive, or giving them a bastion -- which gets expensive. In each of these cases I was increasing the cost by 50% or more.

I moved to use the Autolas pred and found it to be very effective in comparison. AV13 at range is hard to dislodge. Its also not going to fail a morale test and run off the board.

When going with the predator your losing 1 heavy weapon. Instead of 4 autocannons, your getting 1 autocannon and 2 LCs. So your trading 25% of your punch for more durability.

For your particular list I'd take the Predator as it will sit nicely next to the Barges for a nice wall of AV13.

Ya that is what I was thinking, and it helps me to deal with my long range heavy AT problem.

I'd drop a single wraith and make it tri-las.