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Adeptus Custodes Strike Squad 380 Points
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
5 5 5 5 2 5 2 10 2+/5+ Invul
Special Rules: Fearless, Fleet, Adamantium Will
Wargear: Power Halberd with inbuilt storm Bolter, Artificer armor with inbuilt refractor shield
Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Composition: 5 Adeptus Custodes, up to 10
Options
-May add up to 5 additional custodes for a total of 10 at 70 points a model
-2 in every 5 models may replace thier Halberds with Volkite Culverins for 20 points a piece.
-The Squad may take a Land Raider Crusader as a dedicated transport for listed price.
-The entire squad may take Shroud Bombs for 30 points
-Up to half of the Custode may replace thier Halberd with a Paragon Blade & an Archaotech Pistol for 32 points.
-1 model in the squad may be upgraded into an sergeant for 20 points w/ the following effects: Increase of A by 1.
-The entire squad may take Jetbikes for 50 points a model. This grants an additional wound & an additional point of toughness, & the squad obviously may not have a dedicated transport. This upgrade may only be taken for the whole squad. The Custodes fire their weapons normally.
The official description for Custodes is that they are to a marine, what a marine is to a guardsmen.
Comments & Criticism
Edit: Volkite Culverin: 45 inch range, S:6, AP:5, Heavy 4, Deflagrate (Deflagrate means that the weapon inflicts a number of auto hits with the weapons profile equal to the number of unsaved wounds)
Paragon Blade: S+1, AP:2, Melee, Murderous Strike, Specialist Weapon (Murderous Strike means instant death on a to wound of 6)
Archaotech Pistol: S:6, 12 inch range, AP:3, Pistol, MC
Shroud Bombs are defensive grenades with the added benefit that units other than G creatures and Daemons must pass a leadership test to charge the unit
The rules for all these are in Horus Heresy Betrayal. This is 30k but the Crusader is just because it fits the squad well.
I will have it be known that the Emperor's rules were "okay" for the points cost and were representative of the character's fluff.
No one seems to have enough issues with the Magnus rules that with a reasonably cool model they wouldn't play against it.

It would be good if you wrote out the rules for al the fancy things that they can take, otherrwise they look pretty much like I imagined. However why the Crusader variant, if this is 30k the version hasn't been invented yet and if it's 40k they should have access to the two other versions as well unless there is some specific fluff saying that custodes only use Land raider crusaders

The only problem I see with this would be the sentiment towards the Custodes is that they are a squad of individuals as opposed to a squad. Perhaps something to reflect that they are skilled, supremely so, but lack to interconnection between each other to truly operate as a cohesive unit in a combat setting.

deathmagiks wrote:
The only problem I see with this would be the sentiment towards the Custodes is that they are a squad of individuals as opposed to a squad. Perhaps something to reflect that they are skilled, supremely so, but lack to interconnection between each other to truly operate as a cohesive unit in a combat setting.

It would be hard to make a rule like that, that didn't instantly make the unit horrible.
The closest thing that comes to mind is that the opponent picks which model to attack when shooting, but that kills your expensive fancy special weapons.

Why is there S and T 5?

I could be wrong here, but they are normal marines, just with a lot more experience and war-gear.

 kinratha wrote:
Why is there S and T 5?

I could be wrong here, but they are normal marines, just with a lot more experience and war-gear.

Nope completely different process which costs much more money, is much more traumatizing, much more time consuming, has many more implants & the end result is a 9-10 foot superhuman instead of an 8 foot one.
Did you not see the official description "Custodes are to a marine, what a marine is to a guardsmen"
There was a scene in an ADB book where a Custode kills 3 Chapter Masters and then survives a full bolter clip to the face without his helmet.
Another has a Custode surrounded by three Ogryn, he kills all three of them unscathed and kills the last one by punching through his chest and pulling out and crushing his heart. Yeah.......

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Aiece.
-One model may be upgraded to an Apothecary for 50 points

No. They are not Palladins.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Force Halbelrd with inbuilt Storm Bolter, Artificer armor

Since when Custodians are psykers? And since when there was storm bolters in heresy era?
It should be this:
Custodian Spear: S+2 AP2, Two-Handed and R24" S4 AP5 Rapid Fire (they are just bolters).
The melee profile above is based on the Asterion Moloc's Dark Spear, which is rumored to be a Custodian Sperar with a bolter replaced for some powerful laser weapon.
You may add Relentless to allow them charge after shooting.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
-Up to half of the Custode may replace thier Halberd with a Paragon Blade & an Archaotech Pistol for 20 points.

No way. Paragon blades are such badass only due to being in the hands of the legion heroes - fluff-wise they are just regular power swords (or even chainswords in case of Loken)

 ThePrimordial wrote:
-1 model in the squad may be upgraded into an officer for 60 points w/ the following effects: Increase of WS, BS, W, A by 1.

It' is called custodian captain. And he should be Character, BTW.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Any Custode with otherwise base wargear (Halberd and Artificer) may take a Shield thingy (Storm Shield before Storm Shields) for 10 points

There was a custodian squads with some kind of swords and prototype storm shields (I'd suggest 3++, but 1 to-save would cause something bad to happen. Maybe strikedown or shield malfunction)

 ThePrimordial wrote:
Comments & Criticism

1) Termitator option (expensive)
2) Jetbike option (hell of expensive)
3) Some rule to make them less effective in big numbers (they are lone warriors, not battle brothers, tigers to space marine wolves)

Maybe a way of simulating the "squad of individuals" thing is to remove the option to overwatch with a description of something like "When charged by the enemy very rarely do the mighty custodians close ranks to ward off the attackers preferring to fight their own battles in hand to hand (or hand to claw). Typically custodians are carried by the flow of battle and when their foes have been vanquished at the tips of their guardian spears they find themselves separated by a considerable distance."

OK, i have an idea for sword/shield variant crystallized in my head:
Any Custoduian could replace his Custodian spear for the flaming sword and custodian shield for free:
Flaming sword: S:User, AP3, Melee, Rending
Custodian shield: Bestow 3+ invulnerable. For every invulnerable save with "3" or "4" one model with shield in the squad suffers Srikedown effect (Initiative is halved and treats all terrain as difficult)

1. Drop the force halberds, force weapons are the exclusive domain of psykers. Custodes aren't uniformly psykers (in fact i can't actually think of one that is).

Instead change it to the actual weapon of the Custodes; the Guardian Spear (which can simply be represented by a power halberd). Also drop the storm bolter for a normal bolter, storm bolters are a post heresy weapon.

2. Remove the ability to take an apothecary. You like to inform your rules of fluff right? To date there has been zero mention of Custodes Apothecaries. In fact given that they don't have gene-seed the primary point of Apothecaries is lost on them.

3. The ability to take an archeopistol and paragon blade should cost more than 20 points. The pistol alone is 20 points in in Betrayal, the paragon blade 25 points.

4. Upgrading a model into a sergeant (or the equivalent) shouldn't bump his stats. That's never been the done way in any codex. The only stat that increases is leadership and attack, each by one.

If you want a Custodes Captain make a seperate profile, which i'd base off the Centurion or Legion Praetor.

5. Because they're also getting a 5+ invulnerable save change their armour type from Artificer to 'Custodes Armour: grants a 2+ armour save and 5+ invulnerable save' or add a refractor field to their wargear. It's just about keeping the rules consistent with how GW does it.

6. The storm shield upgrade should cost more. It turns a good unit into a really, really good unit. Also power halberds are two handed weapons, how are they also using a large shield? Or using a sword in one hand, pistol in the other and then a shield. It would probably be best to drop this upgrade all together.

Other than the above issues these rules are actually alright. They're pretty reasonable and for the units cost i'd be willing to play them. They're certainly more balanced than some of your other creations.

Hey Prime, thought I would chime in here because custodes are my ALL time fav fluff guys. So what do we know about them? They were trusted the only ones who could stand with the Emperor. As usual we have to balance fluff with gameplay. So I am going to go through an idea and then give reasons for each idea. First up is the profile.


Unit Composition: 1-5 Custodial Guard. 80pts each.

WS: 5 (I agree with you here)
BS: 5 (I agree with you here)
S: 4 (there is a reason for this)
T: 4 (again a reason for this)
W: 3 (this is the reason. Yes, they are tougher than usual marines, but putting them at just 2 wounds and attacks puts them at paladins level, and that just doesn't cut it. I know we have to balance them, so thats why only toughness and strength 4. Bearing in mind in the first heretic one alone was able to kill the equivalent of chapter masters in his death throws, but did fall to a possessed (which I believe are just strength 4/5, so needs to still have a challenge)
I: 5
A: 2 (reason for this in special rules)
LD: 8 (This may come as a shock, but they are not leaders, they are soldiers)
SV: 2+


Special Rules:
Fearless, FNP 6+, Bulky

Custodial fighting stance:
Each turn the custodial guard must choose one of the following stances until the next turn:
1) Combat Stance- The Custodial Guard gains +1 attack.
2) Defensive Stance- The Custodial Guard gains a 6+ invun that increases to 5+ in combat.
3) Guardian Stance- Whilst in base contact with an independent character (including other custodial guard), that character gains +1 to his invulnerable save.

Adeptus Custodes:
Each Custodial guard is a character in his own right. Each custodial guard can choose whether to set up as a squad of custodes, or as an independent character, gaining the independent character special rule. Adeptus Custodes never count as scoring units, even when a special rule allows it.

Wargear:
Guardian Spear: It is a relic blade (+2 strength, ap3) which incorporates a twin linked boltgun.
Artificer Armour


Options:
Any Custodial Guard may upgrade their guardian spear for a black spear for 10pts. This is a relic blade that confers +1 strength on the charge and can be used in the shooting phase with the following profile:
Range: 6" S6 AP1 Assault 1

Any Custodial Guard can take a custodial shield for 10pts. This confers a 5+ Invulnerable. When combined with Defensive Stance this confers a 3+ Invulnerable save.


Any Custodial Guard can replace his Guardian Spear for a Cleansing Flamer for no extra cost. It has the following profile:
Range: Template S4 AP4


A custodes squad may take a Grav Rhino for +50pts. This shares the same profile as a rhino but changes it's type from Tank to Fast Skimmer. It can take the options Extra Armour and Searchlight for the points costs listed for the Rhino in Horus Heresy: Book 1.


Special Character: (WARNING this is going to be balanced ONLY in the HH books. Now despite most people saying that he sparred with Horus I can't find anything to support that, only in Nemesis does he contemplate sparring with Dorn and believes that he can stand his own with him, if not just for a short while, but never states he can beat one. So he has to be weaker than a primarch, but still far stronger than a standard bloke. So here is my take)

Lords of War choice:

Constantin Valdor 350pts
WS: 10
BS: 6
S: 5
T: 5
W: 4
I: 6
A: 5
LD: 10
SV: 2+

Special Rules:
Independent Character, Fearless, FNP 5+, It will not Die, eternal warrior.

Perfected Custodial fighting stance:
Each turn the custodial guard may choose two of the following stances until the next turn:
1) Combat Stance- Valdor gains +1 attack.
2) Defensive Stance- Valdor gains a 5+ invun that increases to 4+ in combat.
3) Guardian Stance- Whilst in base contact with an independent character (including other custodial guard), that character gains +1 to his invulnerable save.


Wargear:
Artificer Armour

Emperors Light:
This unique guardian spear was crafted and given to valdor by the emperor himself. It has the following profile:
Range: Combat S: +2 AP: 2
Range: 8" S: 6 AP1 Melta, assault 1

Are these 30k or 40k Custodes? The main difference being the availability of storm shields.
I don't have that much time now, so this is just a few quick suggestions.

Adeptus Custodes
-Each Custodes may choose to be an independent character. (could tie in with being able to mix weapons in squads, as they prepare their own equipment)
-Custodes may never use any other model's leadership
-Custodes cannot score

Bodyguard Supreme
-A Custodes may always re-roll failed "Look out Sir!" rolls.

A Custodes may take an Imperial Jetbike for 45pts (stats later)

-Why does Constantin Valdor have WS10? Horus "only" has 8

Sgt Rock is gonna kill me wrote:
The main difference being the availability of storm shields.

The main difference is availability of armour. Don't you forget Custodians run almost naked after the Emperor was slain?
So it's pretty obvious heresy-era Custodes


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sgt Rock is gonna kill me wrote:
-Why does Constantin Valdor have WS10? Horus "only" has 8

And Valdor beats him up in sparring duel. Despite NOT being superpowerful demigod.

We don't know for sure if Horus beat him up, I honestly am tearing through the books and cant find this anywhere. But every time we see or hear of Valdor in the books even the Primarchs give him the respect they would brothers. Heck Valdor at first looked DOWN on the primarchs as squabling cousins. Only Dorn managed to gain real respect from him. And Dorn backed down to Valdor when he attempted to see the Emperor. It is widely stated Valdor is an INCREDIBLE duallist, he even had his own sparring cage in Nemesis. So that is why I gave him WS10. Allows him to stay alive against a primarch for more than 1 turn, though he will eventuall be pounded to dust but not before doing some damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thorian wrote:
We don't know for sure if Horus beat him up, I honestly am tearing through the books and cant find this anywhere. But every time we see or hear of Valdor in the books even the Primarchs give him the respect they would brothers. Heck Valdor at first looked DOWN on the primarchs as squabling cousins. Only Dorn managed to gain real respect from him. And Dorn backed down to Valdor when he attempted to see the Emperor. It is widely stated Valdor is an INCREDIBLE duallist, he even had his own sparring cage in Nemesis. So that is why I gave him WS10. Allows him to stay alive against a primarch for more than 1 turn, though he will eventuall be pounded to dust but not before doing some damage.

SGT rock:
Thats what I meant about Independent character, they can choose which is why its not in their generic special rules.
In regards to other peoples leadership, I agree but it is pointless putting that in their when they are fearless. But If you want it in their, then put it at least that they can use the leadership of only models with the Primarch or Emperor rule.
I think custodes should be able to score, they are in essence the Emperors "troops".

 rems01 wrote:

Instead change it to the actual weapon of the Custodes; the Guardian Spear (which can simply be represented by a power halberd). Also drop the storm bolter for a normal bolter, storm bolters are a post heresy weapon.

The storm shield upgrade should cost more. It turns a good unit into a really, really good unit. Also power halberds are two handed weapons, how are they also using a large shield? Or using a sword in one hand, pistol in the other and then a shield. It would probably be best to drop this upgrade all together.

Storm bolters are post heresy weapons (CSM no have)
Storm Shields are post heresy weapons (CSM also no have)

remove both




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thorian wrote:

I think custodes should be able to score, they are in essence the Emperors "troops".

They may have been, but he used his marines to conquer worlds and claim objectives. Once he had found all of his sons to command his 20 legions he rarely ventured out into battle.

I dont see custodes as being tactically skilled. They would train all the time to defend a certain place a certain man but when it comes to adapting to a new place, new circumstance, holding an objective I dont see it. They sacrifise something to become as elite as they are and that something is ability to score.

I had forgotten that they run around topless post-heresy, though that might only be in the palace. Personally I doubt even a Custodes would go without armour to face the Brides of the Emperor. If they ever aren't deployed on Terra then they might want more protection than fantastic abs, but I get your point. 30K, pre-heresy, no storm shields or storm bolters.

I just remember that ANGRON is WS9. I know he needs to be able to stand up to a primarch (as he did look down on them and all) but that should, IMHO, be in a defensive way. Some sort of parry rule, or maybe just sheer survivability. As the Emperor's personal bodyguard he's going to be pretty tough, and very well engineered, genetically.

I've looked at some artwork and there seems to be some sort of flamer weapon available, as an option. Any thoughts? And should a squad have a Grav-Rhino as a transport option?
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Companions_of_Custodian_Guard.jpg#.UgQlv5K-ng8
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:CustodesGrav-Rhino.jpg#.UgQmq5K-ng8

I think WS10 is a good defensive measure, that in itself is a great parry. The defense itself is that he is hard to land a blow on. I math hammered and did 5 model v model scenarios with Valdor facing Horus, Angron and Fulgrim (using the angron model as the proxy) and in no scenario did valdor actually win. He did more damage to angron but angron still quickly made short work of him. And as for flamer hmm.... It would have to be a free option and I reckon closer to a hand flamer with AP and S 4. But why would you take that over the guardian spear... But for fluff, the option will be included, il edit it in.

Sgt Rock is gonna kill me wrote:
I've looked at some artwork and there seems to be some sort of flamer weapon available, as an option. Any thoughts? And should a squad have a Grav-Rhino as a transport option?

It looks like heavy flamer, amybe combined with some blunt weapon.
I 'd suggest:
Range: Template, S5 AP3 Heavy 1
S+2 AP4 Melee, Two-handed, Concussive.
It obfiously should be limited to terminator custodians

 thorian wrote:

W: 3 (this is the reason. Yes, they are tougher than usual marines, but putting them at just 2 wounds and attacks puts them at paladins level, and that just doesn't cut it.

I'm sorry, but paladins are in all likelihood better than custodes.

These are not grunts, these are the greatest grey knights in the chapter who have individually performed some of the most ridiculous feats ever in the 40k fluff.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
I'm sorry, but paladins are in all likelihood better than custodes.

These are not grunts, these are the greatest grey knights in the chapter who have individually performed some of the most ridiculous feats ever in the 40k fluff.

Man, thee is no words in the Univerce to describe how wrong is you. Palladins may be heroes and so on, but they are still Astartes. They got some psychic buffs, super-training and super-equipment, but their armour is bulky and their best weapon - force Halberds is nowhere near as brutal as Custodian Spears, which cuts terminatorrs and meganobs in half in one swing - the only Custodian Spear apperaed in the crunch to this day is S+2 AP2 with no Unwieldy. And most of all even Palladins could not punch through Ogryn chest and crush his heart with bare hands, and then kill another one by throwing a small stone at his heat with such velocity that his head explode. Even captains of Herersy Era (which all supposed to be heroes with combat skills much beyond any Palladin capabilities) could not rival Custodian "Grunts" on sparring courts, and even the first Gal Vorbak - super-possessed WBs, lead by mega-possessed captain - had a hard fight against half their number of Custodians and won only due to teamwork (while custodians fought like a bunch of loners). To hell them, Horus himself once lost in a sparring with Custodian Captain-General.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 kinratha wrote:
Why is there S and T 5?

I could be wrong here, but they are normal marines, just with a lot more experience and war-gear.

Nope completely different process which costs much more money, is much more traumatizing, much more time consuming, has many more implants & the end result is a 9-10 foot superhuman instead of an 8 foot one.
Did you not see the official description "Custodes are to a marine, what a marine is to a guardsmen"
There was a scene in an ADB book where a Custode kills 3 Chapter Masters and then survives a full bolter clip to the face without his helmet.
Another has a Custode surrounded by three Ogryn, he kills all three of them unscathed and kills the last one by punching through his chest and pulling out and crushing his heart. Yeah.......

They are not 10 foot. One didn't kill 3 chapter masters, he killed 2 normal, unprepared marines and then killed a chapter master while he was in unsheathing his weapon. He was then effectively killed by a bolter shot. These are serviceable rules if you change the halberds as already suggested.

BaconUprising wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 kinratha wrote:
Why is there S and T 5?

I could be wrong here, but they are normal marines, just with a lot more experience and war-gear.

Nope completely different process which costs much more money, is much more traumatizing, much more time consuming, has many more implants & the end result is a 9-10 foot superhuman instead of an 8 foot one.
Did you not see the official description "Custodes are to a marine, what a marine is to a guardsmen"
There was a scene in an ADB book where a Custode kills 3 Chapter Masters and then survives a full bolter clip to the face without his helmet.
Another has a Custode surrounded by three Ogryn, he kills all three of them unscathed and kills the last one by punching through his chest and pulling out and crushing his heart. Yeah.......

They are not 10 foot. One didn't kill 3 chapter masters, he killed 2 normal, unprepared marines and then killed a chapter master while he was in unsheathing his weapon. He was then effectively killed by a bolter shot. These are serviceable rules if you change the halberds as already suggested.

They are 10 feet tall. The tallest ones are a little bit shorter than primarchs which are on average 12 feet tall.

Reference it.

BaconUprising wrote:
Reference it.

Constantin Valdor was as tall as Alpharius who was about 10 feet tall. Yeah.

No Alpharius was about the size of a large space marine. Anyway you still haven't given a source.

BaconUprising wrote:
No Alpharius was about the size of a large space marine. Anyway you still haven't given a source.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes#.UhVIYjYo6M8
This is why I don't give sources. Enjoy reading for the next 5 minutes instead of just believing me.

Lexicanum is not a source. The website itself states that its "unofficial". Reference it in a text then I will believe you.

BaconUprising wrote:
Lexicanum is not a source. The website itself states that its "unofficial". Reference it in a text then I will believe you.

Lexicanum is one of the most blatant sources I can give. What does not being official have to do with this? There are massively different takes on the custodes from Mcneil with them being quite a bit bigger but just as potent to Abnett with them being multiple heads taller and beating Chapter masters to death.

Ok I'm not going to have another pointless argument with you on this s I'm just going to say once again, provide me with a real source (non lexicanum) and then I will believe you.

Not to derail this further, but I think that you may be confusing the available sites baconuprising? I believe that it is warhammer40kwiki (or something of the like) which uses a lot of fan stuff, whereas lexicanum attempts to reference the vast majority of their stuff, and tends to note where there is no reference yet.