Vets and Animal Cruelty?

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**LordofHats**

I post this in part as a response to this article and in part as personal experience with Vets and am curious if others have similar experiences. About four years ago, one of our cats was found to have a heart problem (she's still up and kicking) and the Vet advised that my parents get her surgery to relieve the problem or she wouldn't live another year. My parents refused as the surgery cost in excess of $8,000 and as much as they (namely my mom) loves her cats, she isn't going to spend 8 grand on a pet that's already thirteen years old.

The Vet then proceeded to try and guilt trip her into paying anyway and suggested that she could be charged with animal cruelty for refusing. To us this was patently absurd (we never got any calls from law enforcement or anything). As I said earlier though, the cat's still eating, napping, and nawing on fingers for attention so either the diagnosis was off or the Vet was exaggerating (I assume the former).

But this was one of several odd experiences my family and I have had with vets over the years. I watched an aunt get guilt tripped into buying $120 super food for her dog by a vet and some of the Vets that work for the Army, not even going there. It strikes me as ridiculous to even suggest (let alone put in writing) that you will report someone for animal cruelty if they refuse to pay hefty medical bills for a pet. I'm all behind treating our furry planet-mates with respect and care, but putting yourself into debt with bills in the thousands of dollars range over a pet is ridiculous to me.

The linked article:

A Tustin, Calif., woman is suing a veterinary office for $1 million, alleging they used extortion by threatening to report her for animal cruelty when she couldn't pay for a $10,000 surgical procedure for her dog.

Karen Kelly's dog, Mojo, was hit and dragged under a car on July 31, 2011, Kelly claims in a lawsuit filed with the California Superior Court in Orange County. She rushed the dog to Advanced Critical Care and Internal Medicine Inc., a 24-hour veterinary facility in Tustin, the court filing states.

She signed an estimate and authorization for services after being asked to do so, according to the lawsuit. She was told "immediate surgery" was needed to save Mojo's life, costing $10,000, but "that there was no guarantee that Mojo would survive the surgery," according to the court filing.

She explained that she did not have $10,000 and called several friends to see if they could come up with the money, but none could, states the lawsuit, which adds one friend applied for credit at the center and was declined.

Kelly, who is suing for civil extortion, intentional infliction of emotional distress and negligent infliction of emotional distress, declined to comment to ABC News and directed questions to her attorney.

Her attorney, Barry Besser, said he is investigating which veterinarians from the practice, which was bought by new owners and renamed in 2012, will be named as defendants. Until then, the lawsuit has not yet been served.

The veterinarian who saw Mojo, according to the dog's medical record, Dayna Zane, no longer works at the location and declined to comment to ABC News.

One of the alleged former owners of Advanced Critical Care and Internal Medicine Inc. did not respond to multiple requests for comment.

Kelly, according to the lawsuit, "then insisted that she be allowed to go home and bring back a check, but the defendants refused, "stating that they were afraid [Kelly] would abandon the dog and not come back." She also asked to bring Mojo home that day so she could bring the animal to her own veterinarian in the morning, the filing states.

The defendants refused, giving her "three options," the court filing states: "1) Put the dog to sleep 2) Pay the $10,000 3) Keep the dog in critical care overnight, which would cost $1,500 in addition to what the defendants were going to charge [Kelly] for what they had already done, which was in the sum of $1,308.75."

The defendants also told Kelly that "if she insisted on taking her dog home, that she would have to sign a form that it was against" their medical advice, "and that they were going to report her to the authorities for 'animal cruelty,' which is a crime," the lawsuit states.

Read More: Man Accused of Blowing Up Dog Not Charged With Animal Cruelty

In the lawsuit, Kelly claims she did not have the funds to pay the $1,308.75 bill. She was "required to and forced to sign an agreement to pay said amount in full the very next day, or she would be turned over to collections," the lawsuit states.

"[Kelly] signed the agreement under severe duress, as that was the only way that she could get her dog back, even though she knew that she would not be able to pay the entire amount in full by the following day," the lawsuit states.

Dr. Peter Weinstein, executive director of the Southern California Veterinary Medical Association, said most veterinarians understand the cost of veterinary care is something for which many people do not budget.

"Beyond the animal's basic welfare, any surprises like dog poison, getting hit by a car or eating panty hose, can run into specific costs and is not expected," he said. "We hope to work with pet owners so a pet gets the best care possible, understanding the cost of providing care."

Weinstein said many people don't fully understand the cost of human health care, if they are exposed mainly to insured care, and are surprised by the cost of animal medical care.

"When you try to compare apples to apples, it is really hard to do," he said. Only a small percentage of pet owners have health insurance for their animals.

Weinstein added that veterinary practices fit more into small business than health care centers for people, and typically require upfront payment, usually cash, check or credit card. However, many veterinarians, including himself, have accepted bartering for owners over time who can not afford to care for their animals' medical care.

"I got signed litograph from an artist for neutering his dog," Weinstein said.

Weinstein adds that pet owners should ask veterinary practices about third party options for payment such as Care Credit.

Weinstein said a misconception that many pet owners have is that veterinary facilities are very profitable.

"Like many small businesses, their overhead costs are huge and profits are nowhere near where healthcare costs are in other parts of the field," Weinstein said.

After Mojo was released to Kelly, she received a final notice from the defendants for $1,308.75, which was turned over to a collection agency, the lawsuit states.

The day after Mojo was hit by a car, an agent from the County of Orange animal control came to her home when she was not home and attached a notice to her door, indicating that they were investigating an allegation of animal cruelty. Later animal control dropped the case against her, after, the lawsuit claims, Kelly had "already been put through severe stress and emotional distress."

The dog is still alive, according to Besser. It's unclear what treatment it received after leaving the animal hospital.

Corey Evans, an attorney in San Francisco who focuses on animal issues and is not involved in this case, said under the California Veterinary Medical Practice Act, whether or not an owner is legally obligated to provide medical care for an injured dog depends on the situation.

He said while an animal is typically considered the property of its owner, allowing an animal to suffer may be considered animal cruelty. However, a veterinarian cannot generally keep an injured animal without the owner's permission if the owner wishes to take the dog to another medical facility.

State law indicates that licensees of the Veterinary Medical Board have a "duty" to report animal cruelty if they have "reasonable cause to believe an animal under its care has been a victim of animal abuse or cruelty".

"Everybody who has a dog and cares for a dog has a legal duty not to neglect the dog," Evans said.

**Ouze**

I love dogs, but I couldn't imagine paying $10,000 for surgery for any pet I've owned unless I had hit the powerball or something like that.

**xole**

We had a situation kind of like this, but the bills weren't that outrageous because there was no surgery. Cat went through the washing machine.

I think it's rediculous how much it costs. I doubt many people oculd justify it.

**daedalus**

Yeah. Growing up, we had a cat that liked to hide in the dryer, up until mom started it one day. She caught it almost immediately, so the cat was fine.

We all had a good laugh at the cat's expense, but I could see how that would have gone bad pretty quickly.

**Ma55ter_fett**

Thats pretty crazy.

I don't generally pay attention to the comments on yahoo but some people seem to have had simular experiances.

I've enjoyed the time I've has with each of our family pets but I would never dream of spending $10,000 to save one of their lives.

Sounds harsh, but the shelters are overflowing with animals who don't need urgent thousand dollar operations and medications.

**Vaktathi**

I can't imagine surgery for a pet that would cost that much where the animal has a reasonable chance of survival, and thus a reason to undertake it. If there's not a very good chance of the animal surviving and having a good life after that, there's no reason to even attempt it, I wouldn't want such surgery for myself in that situation.

That said, I like my dogs more than I like most of my family, they don't judge, they're always happy to see me, and personally would readily pay that much if I had it and it would ensure a return to a healthy life, but that's a lot of money, and if there's only a small chance of success and/or the animal will not have a full life, put it down mercifully.

**Desubot**

LordofHats wrote:

Read More: Man Accused of Blowing Up Dog Not Charged With Animal Cruelty

Lolwut?

Really though both stories are sad.

**LordofHats**

How long did it take to get crusher videos banned again? Or are those still legal...

**Ma55ter_fett**

LordofHats wrote:
How long did it take to get crusher videos banned again? Or are those still legal...

Google leads me to nothing so...

What is?

**LordofHats**

Ma55ter_fett wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
How long did it take to get crusher videos banned again? Or are those still legal...

Google leads me to nothing so...

What is?

Something So twisted you might die a little on the inside.

According to Wiki the legality is still debated

**Ma55ter_fett**

LordofHats wrote:
Ma55ter_fett wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
How long did it take to get crusher videos banned again? Or are those still legal...

Google leads me to nothing so...

What is?

Something So twisted you might die a little on the inside.

According to Wiki the legality is still debated

The mind boggles.

**dæl**

Is pet insurance not popular in the US? Everybody I know who has a pet has insurance over here and my dog recently had to have a cyst drained which cost a couple of hundred quid, but the insurance covered it minus a £50 excess.

**LordofHats**

I've honestly never heard of anyone actually insuring their pets in my experience (not in the US).

**Grey Templar**

I would never insure a pet. I like my cats, but they aren't worth that kind of money.

Anything more than a minor injury and I'd rather just put the thing down and get a new kitten.

The only animals I would ever insure would be a breeding animal, that may also happen to be a pet.

And I certainly wouldn't have any treatments to extend its natural life. Why keep your dog alive for another couple years if its just going to be laying around the house because its got bad arthritis? Just get it put down and start over with a new pet.

**LordofHats**

Will say I don't embrace the "put it down you can get a new pet" mentality

I mean, I guess I would do that but I prefer not to think of it quite in those terms. Rather tell myself that Shelia lived a good life and her time has come XD

**Duce**

If it was needed I'd pay the money if I had it for my pets. Their family to me, I'd prefer to keep them around instead of putting them down (Unless they were in pain etc) and getting a new pet.

**dæl**

Grey Templar wrote:
I would never insure a pet. I like my cats, but they aren't worth that kind of money.

My pet insurance is less than £10 a month.

**Frazzled**

Our vet is amazing.
If you're in the Austin area we highly recommend him. He's very good, but also very compassionate.

His specialty is of course wiener dogs and does surgery and other services for the local wiener dog dog rescues - free.

**Experiment 626**

Frazzled wrote:
Our vet is amazing.
If you're in the Austin area we highly recommend him. He's very good, but also very compassionate.

His specialty is of course wiener dogs and does surgery and other services for the local wiener dog dog rescues - free.

I've had the same experience with my local vet as well - nothing but amazing service & compassion.

We did spend a little over $500 on our previous cat to get an abscessed tooth removed & dental work done, but dear 'ol Tigger went on to have another good 7 years or so before she passed.

The only thing you can really say our vets have "sold us on" with our current pair of cats is to keep them on the vet-exclusive TD Total Diet cat food from Hills.
But then, the dental care in the food is so good at keeping their teeth well cleaned that on Loki's last annual check-up, the vet asked if we were brushing her teeth as they were so clean! (trying to brush Loki's teeth would actually lead to you losing your fingers...)

So sure, maybe our vets have sold us on a slightly costlier food that can only be gotten from them, but we've agreed that it's absolutely worth the extra bit of $$$ if it will spare our girls the pain our previous cat went through due to dental problems.

**daedalus**

Grey Templar wrote:
I would never insure a pet. I like my cats, but they aren't worth that kind of money.

Anything more than a minor injury and I'd rather just put the thing down and get a new kitten.

The only animals I would ever insure would be a breeding animal, that may also happen to be a pet.

And I certainly wouldn't have any treatments to extend its natural life. Why keep your dog alive for another couple years if its just going to be laying around the house because its got bad arthritis? Just get it put down and start over with a new pet.

We had a joke that if you killed a cat, two more would show up in it's stead.

Dogs are still somehow different in my mind, but not for any rational reason I can come up with. On one hand, I wouldn't want the dog in your example to suffer, but on the other hand, I'd feel like it's not really my place to decide if it wants to live.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I finally taught my dog how to play dead last night. I guess you CAN teach an old dog new tricks!

**Frazzled**

Experiment 626 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Our vet is amazing.
If you're in the Austin area we highly recommend him. He's very good, but also very compassionate.

His specialty is of course wiener dogs and does surgery and other services for the local wiener dog dog rescues - free.

I've had the same experience with my local vet as well - nothing but amazing service & compassion.

We did spend a little over $500 on our previous cat to get an abscessed tooth removed & dental work done, but dear 'ol Tigger went on to have another good 7 years or so before she passed.

The only thing you can really say our vets have "sold us on" with our current pair of cats is to keep them on the vet-exclusive TD Total Diet cat food from Hills.
But then, the dental care in the food is so good at keeping their teeth well cleaned that on Loki's last annual check-up, the vet asked if we were brushing her teeth as they were so clean! (trying to brush Loki's teeth would actually lead to you losing your fingers...)

So sure, maybe our vets have sold us on a slightly costlier food that can only be gotten from them, but we've agreed that it's absolutely worth the extra bit of $$$ if it will spare our girls the pain our previous cat went through due to dental problems.

Tigger, Loki?

All cats should have such excellent names

**Mr. Burning**

Pet Insurance is probably the best thing ever invented. It has saved me money countless number of times over the last few years.

Just recently one of our cats had all its teeth removed due to gingivitis (I call her gummy now for obvious reasons), It wasn't covered by our insurance plan but it only cost £150 to remove the teeth, have aftercare and a long stretch of antibiotics.
Money well spent IMO.

I have always found dogs to be the most consistent vet goers but that's probably because I like special case mutts. Bull Terriers running after cars and trying to bite their tyres is fething funny and alarming in equal measure.

**SilverMK2**

Yeah, I guess in the UK we must have more money to get pet insurance since we don't have to pay much through taxation to get free human healthcare, as opposed to paying for human insurance

We buy medicated food for our cats, but it is not actually much more than regular food (and in fact is cheaper since we buy in bulk with massive bags which last about 9 months

) and take them to the vets for check ups every so often - even registered them with a new vets as soon as we moved house.

Our last vet was part of a chain (vets4pets) and she was very nice and didn't push anything crazy.

I don't think we have them insured though... they are house cats so at least we don't have the risk of them getting splatted by a car.

**gossipmeng**

The $8000 would be better spent on helping out a local shelter taking care of dozens of animals rather than potentially saving the single pet.

The thing about these procedures is that your fork over that kind of money and the pet could die during surgery anyways.

Somewhat different situation, but my cat recently passed away from kidney failure and cancer at the age of 20. We spent about $1000-1500 in her last 3 months trying to extend her life maybe an extra year or 2. After that the vet gave us the option of spending an additional $2000 on surgery. Eventually you have to call it quits as it isn't worth putting the animals through all that and it is just too expensive for the average person.

**Alfndrate**

Frazzled wrote:
Tigger, Loki? All cats should have such excellent names

Frazz, you're being swayed by the evil cats! What would Rodney, T-Bone, and the third dog whose name escapes me think?

**Frazzled**

Alfndrate wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Tigger, Loki? All cats should have such excellent names

Frazz, you're being swayed by the evil cats! What would Rodney, T-Bone, and the third dog whose name escapes me think?

Well they are philosophically opposed to cats agreed. By one can respect the enemy...

**Alfndrate**

Frazzled wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Tigger, Loki? All cats should have such excellent names

Frazz, you're being swayed by the evil cats! What would Rodney, T-Bone, and the third dog whose name escapes me think?

Well they are philosophically opposed to cats agreed. By one can respect the enemy...

This is true, this is why I respect the Wiener Dog, but be warned cats are too fething cuddly to fight...

**Experiment 626**

Frazzled wrote:

Tigger, Loki? All cats should have such excellent names

Why thank-you!
Our other cat for the record is named Stitch. (yes, as in named after the little blue alien of ultimate evil-genius destruction & mayhem..)

I will say that Stitch acts more dog-like than cat-like. She follows me everywhere like a faithful little puppy, her favourite pastime is being constantly chased about, getting near-continuous belly-rubs, playing semi-fetch (as in, throw her the ball and she'll go kill it), and she will carry her pair of 'safety socks' with her when she's feeling lonely.
She also routinely plays 'Hulk-smash!' with Loki. (meaning no more watching The Avengers). And recently the last mouse she killed was drowned in a 'sleeping with the fishies' mafia-style hit. (meaning no more watching crime dramas either...)

Loki is the troublesome cat, but also pretty gullible meaning that Stitch can get her to take most of the blame for their shenanigans... Loki also has that dog-like trait of thinking anything she can fit in her mouth is edible, while anything put into her food dish must be immediately consumed on the spot.
She also has a nasty habit of breaking out of her collar and playing 'ninja-assassin' on anything that moves, though her favourite game is to play 'kitty land mine' on stairs in the hopes you'll drop that plate/bowl of food you were carrying and thus earn a free snack.

Both girls firmly believe that anything that's not human or feline that so much as twitches should be immediately maimed, tortured & slaughtered with extreme prejudice. (thus far, 7 mice & countless insects/spiders have been savagely killed)
Stitch will attack squirrels if they're dumb enough to get up on the window ledge, while Loki would likely die of over-excitement if she ever realised that birds can be bigger than morning dove sized.
Both girls are keen to try tossing a captured mouse back & forth to eachother, meaning, both girls are banned from watching CFL/NFL games.

Our cats are not to be considered 'cute' or 'cuddly' except at your own peril. (though submitting to their authority by giving them an ear-scratch & tail-scratch will earn you "we'll let you live" status!)

I love my puppy-cats!

**Talizvar**

My dad is a vet.

Always saw this work out the same way if animal is "terminal" if nothing done:

1) A surgery/treatment is recommended, cost given, likelihood of success (citing prior cases), likelihood of side effects or reoccurrence.
2) Estimated life-span is given, medication may be recommended to make the animal more comfortable if taken home (not mandatory).
3) Euthanasia by injection is offered if/when client wants it administered.
4) Never saw anything in the laws making "death by bullet" as cruel to the animal. The police are allowed to use their firearm for badly wounded animals hit by cars.

Never could see any case for an ill animal to be kept at a clinic "for observation" unless it is to help with diagnosis, that is a straight cash-grab.
There is nothing anywhere that could prove taking an animal home is "cruel" hurt/sick or not.
Plus, anyone threatening to sick the police on me after telling me my pet is going to die will have my dislike to the ends of my days.
My dad had a partner that pocketed many of the drug sales on-call (dissolved partnership), so I can say that they are human beings so a bit of research is key.

People do leave their pet at clinics sometimes when they are told the animal is terminal: they cannot face it and they know that the vet cannot inhumanely "dispose" of the pet.
I had seen people say they were going to move, could not take the dog and wanted it put down (he is my dog and no-one else's).
I had more pets from people wanting to kill them than face they got a benign lump or some extreme cases where they only liked them as a baby.
One opposite note: saw him doing open surgery on a budgie(!!??) it had a tumor he had to remove. He had the big mag glasses on and everything, cursing and swearing the whole time. The budgie survived and did well and my dad had cramps in his hands for the rest of the day.

The medicine is not as regulated so can be more expensive than gold and the vet is the bearer of bad news.
It is so hard to weigh the emotion of losing a loved animal or the family losing a serious amount of money that puts the family in financial risk.
At the time you are most vulnerable it is important to make sure you are around people you can trust.

Research your dentist, doctor and vet, these people take care of your loved ones and if they are less than ethical, let it be known.

**mega_bassist**

I dated a vet tech for a long time, and I've never heard of such a thing. They always suggest the treatment, medicine, and if the owner requests, they'll have an estimate for euthanasia...but never threatening charging animal cruelty for not doing what they suggest. Hell, most places have some kind of payment/wellness plan they offer if they can't afford something the clinic deems necessary.

Always research a vet clinic like you would a doctor's office for your kids.