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I have been play testing a green tide list and im finding my nobs are always useless... but some friends still say its worth to keep the nob with power klaws from my point of view i find if the nob fights a squad he gets called out and if i decline the challenge he becomes useless.
but if i accept the challenge most of the time im finding him dieing. but every once and a blue moon they roll all 1s and i manage to live. If he lives he tends to just squish what he hits.
my friend also brought up the point of if they have dreds and my boyz cannot touch it at all. the nob with pk is allitle costly to bring for just a scare.
will it be better to take just a naked squad of 30boyz? or still bring a nob with a bosspole and maybe a bigchoppa over a pk?

PLEASE LEAVE FEEDBACK I NEED HELP!

Sorry if this has already been brought up befor!
sorry for my bad grammar/spelling im a 4th grader at heart

Some tips:
-If you are sure the Nob will die, you refuse the challenge.
-If it's a Terminator or Sgt with an unwieldy weapon, you accept the challenge.
-If it's a single model unit, you accept the challenge and you reroll 6 dices because the Boyz act as cheerleaders.

Nobz are the only way Boyz can deal with vehicles, it's quite a good investment.
Especially if the Boyz get charged by a Walker.

Nobs with PKs aren't there to challenge characters, they are their to beat on AV or non Character MCs.

I'd say always bring a nob with pk. If you get challenged and dont fancy your chances just refuse and let your boyz clean house. I play against orks and always give nobs with pk respect as they can potentially punch out anything plus there a cheap way of getting much needed penetrating power.

There the reason i always take snipers or deathmarks if im using crons, precision shots always on the pk dude!!

Kangodo wrote:Some tips:
-If you are sure the Nob will die, you refuse the challenge.

The more common situation is getting challenged by your run-off-the-mill power-armored sergeant. He might kill you (40% chance iirc), but he isn't guaranteed to. If you refuse the challenge, you might lose combat and thus the chance to run them down.

-If it's a Terminator or Sgt with an unwieldy weapon, you accept the challenge.
-If it's a single model unit, you accept the challenge and you reroll 6 dices because the Boyz act as cheerleaders.

Single model units tend to have either S8+ or instant death weapons, which will crush your nob, no matter how many rerolls he gets. Only challenge those if you plan on tar-pitting them and waste one of their turns.

Nobz are the only way Boyz can deal with vehicles, it's quite a good investment.
Especially if the Boyz get charged by a Walker.

Boyz will glance any vehicle with rear armor 10 to death without fail. Since most walkers get evaporated by the current shooting, dreads have all but disappeared from games. Even if there is the odd dop-podding dread, a warboss can take care of that.

Zagman wrote:Nobs with PKs aren't there to challenge characters, they are their to beat on AV or non Character MCs.

crayz_d wrote:I'd say always bring a nob with pk. If you get challenged and dont fancy your chances just refuse and let your boyz clean house. I play against orks and always give nobs with pk respect as they can potentially punch out anything plus there a cheap way of getting much needed penetrating power.

The problem is, they aren't cheap. At 10+25+5 points, you're spending 40 points for a guy who waves his hand at about anyone who challenges him and then proceeds to do nothing.

There the reason i always take snipers or deathmarks if im using crons, precision shots always on the pk dude!!

You don't even need snipers for that. If the nob is exposed before the first two rows of his boyz got incinerated by tesla, 4+ LOS! is the only thing that can save him.

Personally, I have dropped all my nobz, with one exception: If there is a warboss in the unit, bringing a nob makes sure he doesn't get challenge-baited.

I've experimented with cheap nobz, both with and without big choppa and just the boss pole, but due to overwatch and random charge ranges the boss pole isn't worth the investment, since units small enough to fail their moral aren't able to impact the game anymore anyways. When it comes to cracking AV11 vehicles like most of the necron vehicles, I rather rely on units like koptaz, dakkajets or my warboss, rather than on a mostly useless 40 point unit upgrade - dropping four nobz can easily buy you an additional biker warboss, a dakkajet or a triplet of koptaz.

generally i find that nobs are useful for challenging squad leaders, especially if they don't have powerklaws. most of them will have 2 attacks, so usually they'll cause a maximum of one, then get squished. nobs have 2 wounds, that's really useful.
i also like to be able to get charged by a big nasty like a chaos lord who's swinging a daemon weapon with umpteen attacks with rerolls and all that, and simply challenge him out. and once, only once, the nob survived and got to swing back, kersplat, no more big nasty guy.

landraiders need powerklaws, as do the necron vehicles, as they have rear AV 11, boys will do nothing.

if you're eternally declining challenges, go barebones nob with a bosspole, so you can get re-rolls even if you decline.

nobs are also good for keeping the warboss squishing the masses, accept a challenge with the nob and splat the normal guys with the boss.

if you dont take them, and face some higher than AV10 rear vehicles (which isnt that uncommon), your boyz will never hurt them. And they will only glance it on a 6 whereas the PK will just rip it apart without trying (i literally just skip using my boyz when i assault a vehicle unless my PK actually fails to kill it, which almost never happens. Speeds things up since its highly unlikely the boyz will kill it).

Dont forget about the challenge shenanigans though. If he cannot swing at the start of a turn when a challenge is made, he cannot declare or accept a challenge. This has nothing to do with where he WILL be. so when you charge pile in all those boyz first THEN the nob because oh look hes got too many boyz in the way he can only move 4 inches now instead of 5 he needed to get into combat range....shucks...

Though every time i pull that off i wiff my PK attacks and it means nothing in the end lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
if you dont take them, and face some higher than AV10 rear vehicles (which isnt that uncommon), your boyz will never hurt them. And they will only glance it on a 6 whereas the PK will just rip it apart without trying (i literally just skip using my boyz when i assault a vehicle unless my PK actually fails to kill it, which almost never happens. Speeds things up since its highly unlikely the boyz will kill it).

Uhm, no offense, but that's not a smart thing to do. When your nob kills the vehicle, it will most likely explode and take a bunch of boyz with it. If your boyz glance it to death, they will live happily ever after and even get a piece of LoS blocking terrain to hide behind in the process. 20 shoota boyz will get an average of 40 hits and 6.66 glances on an rear AV10 vehicle. If you add shooting, that's pretty much a sure kill.

Dont forget about the challenge shenanigans though. If he cannot swing at the start of a turn when a challenge is made, he cannot declare or accept a challenge. This has nothing to do with where he WILL be. so when you charge pile in all those boyz first THEN the nob because oh look hes got too many boyz in the way he can only move 4 inches now instead of 5 he needed to get into combat range....shucks...

Due to random charge range, you have little to no control over that. If you manage to get your nob out of challenge range, but within fighting range, consider yourself lucky. Usually, whenever you try that, your roll is either high enough for all the boyz to reach base to base or at least 2nd row, making it impossible for the nob not to get stuck in, or you barely made your assault and your nob may not fight at all - which is just the same as declining the challenge.

 Jidmah wrote:
Personally, I have dropped all my nobz, with one exception: If there is a warboss in the unit, bringing a nob makes sure he doesn't get challenge-baited.

Same thing. I've shelved nearly all my Nobz and now run cheap Shoota squads with Big Shootas only, for objectives. The killing now comes from my other units.

6th edition took the teeth out of our Nobz so there's no point playing them anymore as we did in 5th, unless you enjoy seeing them sit at the back of their squad doing nothing. If you need more Power Klaws, bring Nob Bikers or regular Nobz in squads which are immune to challenges.

5th edition = boyz before toyz, because a squad of boyz was basically a 30-wounds PK Nob.
6th edition = boyz for scoring, toyz for killing.

Another option for challenges is to run a PK Nob and have a Warboss w/ PK run with the squad in question. Even if you decline a challenge and have either one sit the fight out, you'll still have at least 1 PK there to munch on their squad.

Problem with declining a challenge is your opponent picks out which stands down. Which i find dumb but theres a lot of dumb rules.
Unless its duo boy squads, hes gonna say warboss stands down every time and hes s10 and more attacks.

And yea i know just pking the vehicle isnt that wise but it speeds things up and green tide is time consuming enough.

I think the Nob still has uses. I've used Ork allies a fair bit and never had too much of an issue with challenges and what not. A lot of characters don't really want to be in a challenge with a relatively cheap model that has a decent amount of Str8+ attacks. Positioning them at the back can make it easier to avoid challenges in the first round. I'm not saying that Nobz are an auto-take, they certainly aren't, but I do think they offer you a greater amount of versatility.

I think the problem stems from reluctance to accept losses amongst nobs. Green tide is all about having enough orks to reach the enemy and slap them, the delivery system for the orks are more orks. Green Tide walks to victory over the bodies of other orks. I know this, you know this, it's the elementary truth about Green Tide. However orks are very cheap for what they can do and players therefore get a false expectation that only their cheap orks will be doing all the dying to get the 'Tide into combat. just accept thart nobs are orks too and they will do their share of the dying one way or another. There will be losses, accept that, all the orks (except your warboss) are expendable, just some are more expendable than others.

I would go with power klaws in every mob. If you have to refuse challenges or have some die in challenges, swallow the loss and carry on. Allowing for what they bring and how crucial it is the klaws are a must buy. Swallow the cost out of support expenditure, keep your mobs big and keep moving forward. You don't need to get every boss to snip a tank, its enough if some bosses survive to get to snip a tank. If you have enough bosses your horde can snip klaws at tanks on contact.
You might baulk at the price, but think of it this way, the savings you make from the boyz is there to buy the upgraded nobs. While you are at it remember to factor in your warboss and a KFF mek as part of the essentials also. In a real way cost them in alongside the orks, when you have added it all together the whole should be balanced, more or less.

If you arent getting enough klaws into battle you could always bulk out your 'Tide with kans. A Kult of Kans has good synergy with Green Tide, 6-9 kans will add a lot of heavy close combat power and deal with threats the choppas cant hurt, damn cheap too, consider stripping your FA and Elite choices for the kans, as kans tie in with your armies 'core compentence' of massed mobs rushing towards close combat.

Walkers of any kind are a great way to give the other guys Lascannons a good target, and allow them to not only pop a walker but half a dozen surrounding Orks with the same shot.

LValx wrote:I think the Nob still has uses. I've used Ork allies a fair bit and never had too much of an issue with challenges and what not. A lot of characters don't really want to be in a challenge with a relatively cheap model that has a decent amount of Str8+ attacks. Positioning them at the back can make it easier to avoid challenges in the first round. I'm not saying that Nobz are an auto-take, they certainly aren't, but I do think they offer you a greater amount of versatility.

Once again, PK nobz are not cheap. They are among the most expensive unit leaders in the game, even most fully decked-out exarchs struggle to reach 46-56 points. They are about as "cheap" as Space Marine Sergeants with powerfists, which aren't taken by anyone either.

Orlanth wrote:I think the problem stems from reluctance to accept losses amongst nobs. Green tide is all about having enough orks to reach the enemy and slap them, the delivery system for the orks are more orks. Green Tide walks to victory over the bodies of other orks. I know this, you know this, it's the elementary truth about Green Tide. However orks are very cheap for what they can do and players therefore get a false expectation that only their cheap orks will be doing all the dying to get the 'Tide into combat. just accept thart nobs are orks too and they will do their share of the dying one way or another. There will be losses, accept that, all the orks (except your warboss) are expendable, just some are more expendable than others.

That's actually a good argument for not taking nobz. If you drop four nobz, you can get a whole additional unit of boyz instead, who are just as expendable.

I would go with power klaws in every mob. If you have to refuse challenges or have some die in challenges, swallow the loss and carry on. Allowing for what they bring and how crucial it is the klaws are a must buy. Swallow the cost out of support expenditure, keep your mobs big and keep moving forward. You don't need to get every boss to snip a tank, its enough if some bosses survive to get to snip a tank. If you have enough bosses your horde can snip klaws at tanks on contact.
You might baulk at the price, but think of it this way, the savings you make from the boyz is there to buy the upgraded nobs. While you are at it remember to factor in your warboss and a KFF mek as part of the essentials also. In a real way cost them in alongside the orks, when you have added it all together the whole should be balanced, more or less.

Except it was balanced for a whole different set of core rules. As shown above, most vehicles are easily wrecked in close combat without the help of a PK, and the Nob isn't realiable at all at taking out AV13 or 14, so it really is just for smashing dreads and necron vehicles. To narrow of an application if you ask me.

If you arent getting enough klaws into battle you could always bulk out your 'Tide with kans. A Kult of Kans has good synergy with Green Tide, 6-9 kans will add a lot of heavy close combat power and deal with threats the choppas cant hurt, damn cheap too, consider stripping your FA and Elite choices for the kans, as kans tie in with your armies 'core compentence' of massed mobs rushing towards close combat.

Kan fall flat on their face vs Space Marine scouts. A a CC oriented MC like a daemon prince can obliterate an entire unit in one turn, even when getting charged. Even terminators just weather the few attacks, maybe save one of the two wounds they take and then crush those canned grots with their powerfists. Six attacks at WS2 are not "heavy close combat power", but rather something that used to do well against MEQ. Since krak grenades now work on weapon skill comparison, and every variant of MEQ gets them for free, all kanz can do is smash vehicles that were too slow to get away. That is, if some anti-infantry fire didn't put six glances on the unit. With both their resilience and their cover-providing function gone, there is no synergy left with ork boyz. Deff dreads are much better in combat, and even they aren't doing well.