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Good evening fellow dakkanaughts. I come to you with a good few questions tonight.

I'm looking at collecting a GK force again, but having dabbled with them in 5th I'm not sure what exactly 6th has done to them. Though I've read a few tactics reviews here and there.
Regardless of this missing knowledge I've been studying the codex once again and I would much appreciate your advice on a number of questions i have.


Firstly, Strike Squads.
What kind of load suits these squads now. I have came up with 2.
A 6 man unit with an Incinerator, One hammer and 2 halberds, one on the Justicar loaded into a razorback with psybolts.

The other load is a more standard 10 man, 2 psycannons, a hammer, 2 halberds, in a rhino with a 2nd storm bolter and psybolt ammo on both the squad and tank.

I feel like both these squads will function well, but my dilemma is that for the points i want to spend i can take 3 6 man teams to 2 ten man teams.
Are the 6 man teams strong enough to last? I do notice it leaves me with far less "spare wounds" before models carrying the wargear start to drop.



Secondly, Inquisitors.
For my HQ I was thinking of an inquisitor with Divination and a hell-rifle.
With a henchmen squad of 2 weapon-smiths, 3 plasma cannon servitors and a crusader to man an Aegis and tank a few wounds.
I feel a little like the Grey Knights kind of have assault down with them being force weapon armed marines and henchmen squads are much more squishy, and it gives me a heavy weapon squad for any hard targets.
I also intend to throw in a Vindicare as another anti hard target killing unit, but keep him separate from the henchmen.



Thirdly.
Would a Librarian be a solid 2nd HQ choice in here, or would I be best served with something like a grand master? I feel like the support of a Libby would be more useful, but I know the manipulation a Grand Master can bring goes a very long way.


Question 4.
Paladins are just flat out better than Terminators right? The bonus stats and holocaust is worth the 15 ppm difference surely. Even if they aren't troops (refer to Q3) and dont come with FNP. I just think its too expensive in what i imagine will be a 5ish man unit and suspect they'll mostly take las-cannons in the face anyway, anything that's not a las-cannon style weapon shouldn't bother them "too" much, i think...


And the final question for now.
Purifiers or Purgation squads?
The weapon loads are so similar the points are negligible (though I've not added them up yet). But with GK not being orientated for combat as a force is Astral Aim a safer bet than cleansing flame?
Or would I simply be better with a 5 man squad of each than committing to just one? I'm looking at the most Incinerators I can throw in and something that I can use as a solid counter assault unit, there's lots of hoards in my local meta.



I'm looking for a list that sits around the 2K mark, And have not factored in much in the way of transports as of yet, Though I'm looking at a Stormraven and just dedicated transports quite seriously, maybe a land raider.
Nothing is written in stone quite yet, but no "Paladinspam lololol" advice please. I'd like something solid, but fun.

So fire away please dakka. All advice, math and musings are welcome and I thank you in advance.

If you are running pallies, I highly recommend Draigo.

He eats all the str 8-10 shots while LoSing all the volume of fire.

I would reccomend 10-man squads if you are taking strikes, as should you feel you need more scoring units/are not playing kill points, you can always combat-squad at deployment and double the number of units, while having the option to remain as one larger squad if you are playing kill points/don't want to risk first blood. Also bear in mind 2 halves of a combat squad can use the same dedicated transport, giving you more use for rhinos if you choose not to DS. This also allows you to concentrate shooting and CC power, putting the cannons in one combat squad, and the hammer and halberds in another.

I do not have much experience with henchmen, but that loadout sounds reasonable, although the crusader seems out of place. The ADL shoud give you enough protection, and if you are really threatened, you can go to ground for a 2+ cover save.

Libbys are certainly never a bad choice, bringing psychic defence as well as offence and considerable CC ability. Quicksilver, Might of Titan and Warp Rift all seem solid choices for powers, or you can go for divination for reliable re--rolls. Grand Masters or Draigo are certainly worth considering if you are taking paladins, as scoring paladins are exponentially more useful than non-scoring ones. The chance of a scoring dreadknight from Grand Strategy is also an appealing idea.

Paladins and termies both have their merits, but I would say it depends on what roll you have in mind for them. If you are not using a GM or Draigo, then I would suggest a full unit of termies, which can combat squad as above, or remain as one, would be a great scoring unit. Paladins are a far more defensive unit, being able to take far more hurt than termies, but get expensive very quickly and will still be murdered by demolishers/vindicators, and 2+ save MCs. It is also worth noting that both termies and paladins suffer against hordes in CC as they cannot sweeping advance, so try and weaken any hordes heading for the termies with shooting as much as possible.

I would certainly take purifiers, they are a hard counter to hordes with cleansing flame, and can bring the same number of psycannons or incinerators as purgation squads, with far better CC ability as well. Yes they can be expensive, but are one of the best all round units in the codex, and offer a great solution to GKs weakness to hordes of orks, nids and guardsmen. Remeber, unlike termies they can sweeping advance, and should cause enough wounds to cause a horde to break without much effort. I would also take advantage of their cheap halberds, as I6 will give them an edge over MEQ and specialised fast-assault units.

A Land Raider Crusader with psybolt will help thin out hordes as well, and if you are taking a mid-sized unit of paladins, will work great with them.

I guess I could take the best of both and kit out a razorback for the 10 man squads if i felt I needed more heavy weapons on the table, but they do all in all sound more viable.

I see your point, the naked acolyte just to man the cannon still has the same BS, and saves a few points. Clear oversight on my part there

I do feel the Libby will provide me with that extra support I'll need. Compared to the Grand Masters tactical support, the Libby might just cut it for "on table" support. I Imagine I'll need to run a few test games with each and see what works out best for me, though a scoring dreadknight actually gave me a solid laugh.
Draigo still feels too expensive. I mean yes, He IS a harder target than a land raider, but without using a large number of Paladins I just cant do it.

Mostly because any unit of Terminators or Paladins I bring will mostly be there to babysit the Libby or GM. Again, after some points calculations, Paladins do cost more by a bit, but the provide much more for it.
Though its 5 man psycannon terminator squads vs 4 man paladins, who I think will be stealing an Inquisitorial Chimaira. The Paladins just cut it with more wounds, Plus I was thinking about just giving them ALL hammers, so the 2 wounds thing would really make a difference.
Obviously they are still "Just terminators" but they are a bodyguard so far.
I'm hearing "boots on the table" is the way for 6th and GK already suffer from ultra low model counts, so paying for 10 marines over 5 terminators makes sense to me.

Is Astral Aim so terrible
I suspected Purifiers would take the cake to be fair. With ether Unit I was going to plow all the special weapons into one squad and halberds into the other if I combat squad-ed them. I guess it makes sense to give the weapons team a nasty combat surprise.
Or would it be a much better idea to keep both half's evenly balanced in weaponry? I get a "tough to charge" unit and a dedicated assault unit but I'm unsure if this is wise.

I did notice that looked like the way forward in heavy transport. 8 paladins would be a mean thing to pop out that tank.


Is the Stormraven with interceptors a viable idea with the flier rules now? I always really liked the image of having stormravens as the "center" of a force, doping down dreadnaughts, Flying off to drop off Interceptor troops with brilliant accuracy then having terminators use the Stormraven as a teleport homer.
I know that's totally putting all my points in one gun boat, but are the interceptors at least a good unit to have drop out?
I think the rules mean if the flyer moved its 18" in zoom mode they could deploy with no scatter and it could still fire its 4 weapons but i have no idea if this has an FAQ or interpretation that I have missed.
The Mindstrike Missiles really really appeal to me for facing nids.

Razorbacks are a good choice if you feel you need transports and more heavy weapons, and you can use them either to advance with the more CC orientated combat squad, or hang back and shoot with the combat squad with the 2 cannons. Adding psybolt to an AC razorback basically gives you another psycannon. Personally, I wouldn't use transports for SS, instead DS'ing them straight onto the midfield where they will perform best, but this is purely personal preference.

Oh, and Vindicares are certainly great, get one in the list if you can.

I agree Draigo is too expensive if you are not using 2+ paladin squads, and if you really want just 1 squad of scoring paladins, the GM's grand strategy will still allow you that, but again, I would personally take the Libby most times. It could be argued that GK are alright for psychic defence, but you can never go wrong with a Psychic Hood. Scoring DK's are sometimes effective, and can be a nasty surprise, but on the whole you want them to be focusing on burning/chopping stuff rather than babysitting an objective. That said, Personal Teleporters for a 30" jump on T5 for an objective mitigates this somewhat, but I would still say it's a bit too expensive, and not a good trade for what the libby brings.

With paladins vs Termies, it all depends on what you want them to do. Pallies are more a defensive tool, and potenetially 2x as survivable, but in terms of damage output, don't offer than much more (except with more psycannons per 5 men). On the other hand, scoring termies are always good, especially in large squads of 8-10, and work just as well with libbys. It's also worth bearing in mind that LC's or meltas and other AT weapons will kill both types easily, rendering the extra cost for the pallies all but useless.

If you do go with pallies, I would say you don't need hammers on all of them. maybe 1-2, but if you go up against At-initiative AP2 weapons (MCs, warscythes, some of the new eldar stuff) you'll want the extra Initiative, so a couple of halberds never go amiss. I wouldn't bother with the apocathary or banner at anything less that 6 paladins.

Astral aim is not bad (I must admit i have little experience with it), but if you are looking at incinerators, the chances of the target being out of LOS is minimal. With psycannons it is more of a benefit, but I would still take purifiers. If you do, then I would say you want 2 incinerators in each half of the squad, and run them close together, meaning A) you can only lose 5 marines in CC and then flame whatever killed them and B) you can use Cleansing Flame twice on the same target, murdering any horde.

I have no experince with Stormravens, but on paper they seem good. AV12 fliers are very hard to kill (except possibly with tau) and MM or ML and AC/LC turret would perform anti-flier and anti-tank well. I'm not sure on the FAQ for interceptors and zooming, so you'll have to check, but I'm not certain interceptors need the extra mobility, with JPs and a 30" teleport shunt. If I were to use SR, i would bring a squad of termies/pallies with a libby, drop them off, and use 'The Summoning' power to bring up another dangerous unit up the field. Probsbly more termies or a decked out purifier squad. A LR being summoned would also be rather novel, and potentially useful (although very expensive)
Mindstrikes are good against nids, and probably psyker-heavy demons (not that GK need any more help against them).

I think the best option would be to get some models and try a few different lists, using PAGK as purifiers or SS, and TDA as termies or paladins, and see what works out best for you. The beauty of the GK book is that there are no 'BAD' units that would lose you a game, everything is good and useable.

There's been a lot of talk about the Libby here I've noticed. Why? Unless you want book GK powers (which is rare these days) there is no reason to take one over Coteaz, who gets you your two powers and 2+ save while bringing a mini-trove of special rules to the fight. And for 50pts less at least.

The libby brings a few things Coteaz doesn't. He synergises better with termies, able to DS and being better in CC, I personally find the book powers useful, especially with cheap inquisitor psykers for divination needs. He also brings better anti-psychic with the hood, and should it be needed, can be upgraded to ML 3. Coteaz has his merits, but I really only value him if using an all-henchmen army, finding the Libby better for an army using termies or other GK.

If anything, I would swap out the Malleus Inquisitor in the OP's list of suggested units for Coteaz as it's only a 30 point increase for the scoring henchmen and other rules, but I would still take the libby. The codex powers are often overlooked, but in many cases I would take them over the rulebook powers for the following reasons: They are more relaible with no random selection, so you can have a strategy that uses them from the start rather than having to adjust because you didn't get the right power, and similarly you can gear your libby for a specific role in the army, as a force multiplier with Might of Titan and Quickening, or as a more offensive unit with Vortex of Doom or Smite. As I say, if you really need divination, take an inquisitor or Coteaz, but the two fulfil entirely different roles in the army.

Strike Squads 10 man 2 Psycannons, Psyammo, 1 hammer for the Justicar, and a rhino. Either keep the squad together as an effective objective claimer or put both Psycannons in rhino with 3 marines and go shooting or objective holding while the Justicar and marine deapstrike near a vehicle / MC creature and go after it. Any more CCW make the unit too expensive.

Inquisitors and HQ

The best HQ in the codex is Coteaz I will occasionally play a librarian if I have a specific reason to do so like I know I'm playing Necrons. don't play 2 HQ choices as you don't have the points to spare in a GK army.

If you are playing servitors keep in mind Coteaz must stay with them due to mind lock. Drop the weapon smiths they never perform as well as they look in the book. Also drop the crusader if you are behind an ADL as you are there for the cover save. Add a couple of accolytes. 1 to man the cannon and 2 as meat shields.

Normally I think the Vindicare is to expensive for what you get but manning a quad gun is the one exception. With his BS the quad gun will almost never miss those pesky fliers and with the interceptor rule he'll still get to fire his weapon regularly.

Other Henchmen combos you should consider are:
3 Accolytes with Plasma guns and 2 with bolters in a chimera.

4 Death cult assassins an 2 crusaders in a stormraven. Remember the Raven is an assault vehicle. I will put 5 Terminators all with hammers and a librarian with quickening in instead once in a while but this is very expensive. This is the only time I play terminators and I never play paladins they are just too expensive for what you get.

Let me explain why I think Terminators are too expensive versus GKSS. 10 GKSS and 5 Terminators are the same price right and the terminators last longer right? Not any more. There is a proliferation of AP2 weapons in the new codex to deal with terminator armour. The GKSS are better at range since they have more weapons and 6E is all about range. The 10 GKSS also give you more flexibility as you can split them as needed and they fit into the standard troop carriers.

Vehicles: At 2K you should be playing 2 fliers. I would definitely consider taking IG allies to be able to take a Vendetta gunship but that is a whole different post. Rhinos and Chimera are the best troop carriers. I don't play Land Raiders because of the cost.

You will notice I harp a lot on cost. The key to winning with GK is keeping your units as cheap as possible and getting as many units as possible.

Hope this helps

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
... there is no reason to take one over Coteaz, who gets you your two powers and 2+ save while bringing a mini-trove of special rules to the fight. And for 50pts less at least.

Exactly. Coteaz is the best HQ in the codex for these reasons...even if you don't take henchmen. I'd rank the GM second. I'd also concur with much of what Heakyeah had to say.

At 2000 points,10 man Strike Squads with 2 Psycannons and Psyammo (in a rhino) make up the core of your army. At 2000 points I'd be looking for ~30 SS. After that you need some boots on the ground. Coteaz is the perfect help for this and makes him shine in 6th. The good builds for henchmen are centered around Crusaders, Death Cult Assassins, Psykers and Warrior Acolytes. The rest can stay at home. In short, henchmen are extremely good when the unit is built correctly, and incredibly poor otherwise. Here's what I'd recommend in no particular order:

2x Crusaders, 3-4x Death Cult Assassins. Death Cult Assassins should have Power Sword and Power Axe, and Crusaders should have power axes. If you can stick them in an assault vehicle then you have a winning combination (LR or SR per meta).

5x Warrior Acolytes with bolters either behind an Aegis or Razorback.

3x Warrior Acolytes with Meltaguns, 2x Warrior Acolytes with Bolters, Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter, Psybolt Ammunition

3x Warrior Acolytes with Plasma Guns, 2x Warrior Acolytes with Bolters, Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter, Psybolt Ammunition

Finally, for some S10 AP1 36” range large blast: 8xPsykers, 1xWarrior Acolyte. The Acolyte is a MUST in case the psykers suffer from perils.



Draigo and a squad of Paladins are really reserved for use as allies rather than a GK army.

My Strikes and Interceptors are equipped the same with 2 Psycannons, 2 Hammers, and Psybolts. Lets me have a hammer and cannon in each combat squad if I need small fire-bases, or puts the hammers in the CC squad while the cannons sit back (tactical flexibility).

Use to run my GKT the same way, only with Halberds instead of Swords. However, I've been running 2 Hammers per 5 GKT these days due to the shift in meta in my area (I run a Ghostwing).

SJ

I actually think the optimal SSquad load out is 10x w/ 2x psycannons, halberd justicar (for challenges), hammer random dude, Psybolt. For 5 extra points (the halberd) you are suddenly murdering challenges while still being able to pop tanks.

I hate using named HQs and find the fact that only Coteaz unlocks henchmen troops really annoying.

The librarian is exceptional, I use book powers (warp rift and the summoning + others in certain lists) empyrean brain mines, and the oh-so-critically-significant servo skulls.

I'll throw in my 2 cents here I suppose. The strike squads are by far the best use of points in the codex for damage output/pt cost. However, I've found that many times they die in too large of numbers to be able to perform their intended duties. To mitigate this you can either take more of them, try something different, or change your expectations for them. It was mentioned above that taking 30 of them is very effective and this is certainly true. I tend to shy away from this myself but it is certainly one of the best ways to build a pure GK army. If you are going to run them than keep them cheap. 10 with 2 psycannons and psybolt ammo comes out at 240. I'd leave it there honestly. I've tried slapping on a hammer or a halberd for the Justicar but in all the games I've played this just turned out to be a waste of points. If you're worried about vehicles than you should be shooting them with psycannons. If youre worried about walkers... you should be shooting them. As for a halberd on a justicar... meh. I included one on mine and he always fails to do anything to enemy characters. Sure, he'll punk a sergeant but he could've done that with a sword that didn't cost me anything.

Paladins are, by far, better than terminators but only when they can be properly outfitted and supported. If you decide to take paladins than Draigo is almost required. Not only to make them scoring but to act as a meat shield. They also need their maximum of 4 psycannons and your own personal mix of halberds and hammers/swords. I prefer 3 hammers, 1 sword, and 6 halberds. From what I've seen (and this could be wildly different depending on your local meta) paladins don't excel in getting stuck in. Yes they can be CC monsters and can hold their own, but their beauty comes through when you attach Draigo and Coteaz (or a OM inquisitor with a psycannon and prescience) for divination powers. 4++ and reroll all misses? yes please! I tend to park this unit in the middle of the board and watch my opponents throw their entire army at them and I tend to play plasma and long fang spam SW. They can put out a withering amount of psycannon shots and with rerolls its just sick. Now don't get carried away here though as I think they are better off if you consider them a really tough diversion. I recommend running them with shunting DKs and/or interceptors. I wouldn't bother with an apothecary or a banner. I've ran them both multiple times and I havn't been very impressed with the performance of either.

As for flyer defense I havn't had much trouble just ignoring them. With a 2+ save on my main unit the heldrake is little more than a nuisance and other flyers rarely can put out enough damage to contend with your other units on the board. That and the stormraven model is just too damn expensive for me to justify forking over money for an anti flyer unit.

I've never ran purifiers but I hear that they are a monster CC unit if you face hordes often. I wouldn't bother with them unless you know that you are going to be staring down IG blobs or ork mobs as they still die in droves like regular MeQ units.

Librarians are a bit overshadowed by most other things in the codex. It's a shame really, but they don't really bring much to the table for their cost.

I've also never ran a henchmen list but they were pretty potent in 5th. Coteaz is probably the best HQ in the whole dang game because he is DIRT cheap for what you get on him. Just remember that he doesn't have an invulnerable save and he can work wonders as a force multiplier.

I've ran a vindicare a few times and he was completely underwhelming. He is fearless so he cant GtG and you're lucky if he gets 2 shots off before he's gunned down by bolter fire. If you're planning on sticking something on an ADL their are much cheaper and better choices especially if you are using a quad gun.
Well I've gone and rambled on for a while now so I'll just do a quick recap on the things I've had great success with

Paladins+Divination+Draigo= Profit

Dreadknights with a Personal Teleporter, a heavy incinerator, and a GS can stomp accross an opponents backfield once you've pushed a bigger threat into the middle of the board (such as a unit of paladins ) Istrongly recommend you take at least 2 if you're going to take any at all.

Interceptors can be a game changer. I just played a game where I parked a squad on the side of my opponents immobolised vindicator and used them to push 2 squads of GH off the board while drawing his Long Fangs off of my DK's that were already in his backfield.

Build lists that YOU like and have good Synergy. And most important have fun!